Light use gaming PC upgrade recommendations

[lkailburn]

Hi all,

Looking for some upgrade recommendations for my light use home PC. This PC is used for general purpose internet/email and light gaming. I'm not a hardcore gamer, only get a few hours a week/every other week of game time. Currently only playing Skyrim with medium settings.

Current specs are:
• Asus P5ke-wifi
• Intel Core2Quad Q9300 @ 2.5Ghz
• 4GB DDR2
• MSI Geforce 8800 GTS 512
• OCZ 9PB7000118 700w PSU
• Adata 120GB SSD
• Win7 64bit
• Stock cooling on the MSI and the Intel with fresh AS5
• Samsung 24" LED @ 1920x1080 60hz 5ms


I built this box back in late 2007 or early 2008 I can't remember and it has been rock solid since day 1. Only change since then was the SSD which has been fantastic in terms of all around performance. For my general use purposes it's as fast as I need, however on the gaming side it's really fallen behind. At the time I built it I did not think I would need the option for multi GPU but I now think my best option to "refresh" the gaming ability would have been to have gotten an SLI capable board or a ATI card instead of the nVidia. So with multi-gpu option out the window with this setup I'm now debating if I should brace for building a new setup, something Z77 3770 and PCIe3 or..since the performance outside of gaming is adequate, maybe just a new graphics card?
I thought about oc'ing but realized that will only shorten the lifespan. I'd rather buy as top of the line as my wallet can afford, run stock and get great longevity.
Will my mobo/cpu/memory be able to let me see the benefits of a new card? Something like the 670FTW or a lot of users here seem to like the 7970. Will my old OCZ PSU support a new card?
I've fallen out of the hardware loop.

Thanks for taking the time!
-Luke

 

[superccs]

The $200-300 pricerange of GPUs have a lot to offer. I would recommend grabbing something affordable and see how it improves your gaming. Mostly likely with the decent quad core you have now you will enjoy a really decent boost in performance.

As for OC'ing goes... you have already achieved longevity from your system and so I think that if you up the clock on your CPU to ~3.3Ghz (if possible/reasonable) it would really help you out.

If OCing on a decently aged system I would also recommended replacing the thermal paste on your cpu, as it has a tendency of turning into scum. NM just read your last bullet.

 

[Termie]

You have a solid system, but you could benefit from a GPU upgrade. I would caution you, however, about aiming for the 670/7970 level of card. You'll be very CPU-bottlenecked by your system, even if you overclock the CPU.

If you're interested in a cost effective upgrade just to make playing the occasional round of Skyrim more enjoyable, I would highly recommend a card like the AMD HD7770 1GB (~$120), which is approximately 1.75x faster than your 8800GTS. One of the limiting factors on your card is the 512MB VRAM - that's particularly true in Skyrim. The fastest card you should consider buying is the HD7850 2GB (~$190), which is approximately 2.5x faster than your current card, and also has plenty of VRAM to run Skyrim at high settings. You will actually be cpu-bottlenecked at that point, however, which is why the 7770 might be a better choice.

 

[riversend]

Resolution you are gaming on? I assume 1920x1080.

Do not worry about the SLI issue, it only makes sense to go that route if you have high resolutions and can afford to keep doubling up on video cards at every upgrade, otherwise it is just better to optimize bang for buck on single card upgrades over the life of your CPU/RAM combo.

That said, agree with Thermie, pick up a nice 2GB 7850 and you will be off and running. Something like this Sapphire 2GB 7850 for $190 would do the trick and if you decide to upgrade the rest of your system in the next year you could just move that part over to the new build. If you buy something weaker then you might not want to bring it over to a new build.

 

[lkailburn]

Hey guys thanks for the suggestions!

riversend- yes sorry i will edit the first post. 1920x1080 on 24"

Termie -the mobo/cpu have been strong. And adding the ssd has made the normal day tasks excellent. Would the current cpu bottlenecking be so bad that I would essentially see no difference on the current setup with a 7970 or 7850? BTW your gaming setup is EXACTLY the components I was eyeballing when I started thinking "geez should I build a new setup??" Nice!

My question with going with a 7850 is what kind of gaming life cycle can I expect with that card? So lets say in another year(or possibly even 2) I decide it's time to purchase a new mobo/cpu/ram/psu, I would at that point carry over the 7850. How long could I reasonably use that card on the next system with max or close to max settings for games? Even though bottle necked now, would it be a better investment to go with a $300-$400 dollar card now, and carry that over to a new system down the road?

Thanks!
-Luke

 

[Termie]

Hey guys thanks for the suggestions!

riversend- yes sorry i will edit the first post. 1920x1080 on 24"

Termie -the mobo/cpu have been strong. And adding the ssd has made the normal day tasks excellent. Would the current cpu bottlenecking be so bad that I would essentially see no difference on the current setup with a 7970 or 7850? BTW your gaming setup is EXACTLY the components I was eyeballing when I started thinking "geez should I build a new setup??" Nice!

My question with going with a 7850 is what kind of gaming life cycle can I expect with that card? So lets say in another year(or possibly even 2) I decide it's time to purchase a new mobo/cpu/ram/psu, I would at that point carry over the 7850. How long could I reasonably use that card on the next system with max or close to max settings for games? Even though bottle necked now, would it be a better investment to go with a $300-$400 dollar card now, and carry that over to a new system down the road?

Thanks!
-Luke

While a 7850 will not play games at max settings 2 years from now, it's doubtful a 7970 would either. Rather than pay $400 now (and get $200 worth of performance due to your cpu bottleneck), I'd advise you pay $200 now, enjoy your gaming, and then review your needs 2 years from now. A $200 card in late 2014 will likely beat a 7970 while using half the power.

Honestly, you won't find a single person on here that would recommend a 7970 with your CPU, unless you said you had imminent plans to upgrade in the next 3-4 months. And even then, you said you play Skyrim once every few weeks. It's just not money well spent.

 

[lkailburn]

Thanks for the sound advice! I will switch gears and focus in on a 7850 card. One thing I am not familiar with is the differences in gpu terms such as reference, ftw and another one I can't recall. Is there a certain 'model' as well as brand 7850 that at this time would be the best bang for the buck? I'll take a look at riversend's Sapphire suggestion. A low noise one would be great too if any have quieter fans.

-Luke

EDIT: or simply the option between a Sapphire 7850 2GB OC version vs non-OC version? $10 difference

 

[Termie]

Thanks for the sound advice! I will switch gears and focus in on a 7850 card. One thing I am not familiar with is the differences in gpu terms such as reference, ftw and another one I can't recall. Is there a certain 'model' as well as brand 7850 that at this time would be the best bang for the buck? I'll take a look at riversend's Sapphire suggestion. A low noise one would be great too if any have quieter fans.

-Luke

EDIT: or simply the option between a Sapphire 7850 2GB OC version vs non-OC version? $10 difference

Reference means a video card operates at the clock speeds provided in the GPU manufacturer's specifications (that's nVidia or AMD, neither of which sells entire video cards). It can also refer to the fan, heatsink, and printed circuit board (PCB) - again AMD or nVidia may provide these, but will not sell them directly to the consumer.

Many video card manufacturers attempt to add value by changing the clock speeds (overclocking), providing a quieter or more effective fan, or using a PCB with higher tolerance for overclocking.

For your purposes, the $190 Sapphire HD7850 would be just fine: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102998

Spending an extra $10 on the Sapphire HD7850 OC model isn't necessary, as you could use the Catalyst Control Center included with the video drivers to set the same overclock. They both use the same fan and PCB. Just be careful not to buy the $170AR 1GB version: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...on%20HD%207850

 

[lkailburn]

Got it! That makes complete sense now.

Thanks for taking the time to help another member out. I'll be making a purchase tonight! Looking forward to seeing the benefits in Skyrim!

-Luke

 

[Termie]

Got it! That makes complete sense now.

Thanks for taking the time to help another member out. I'll be making a purchase tonight! Looking forward to seeing the benefits in Skyrim!

-Luke

You're welcome! Definitely report back with results.

If you end up finding that your performance does not increase about two-fold (which you can measure with FRAPS - might want to download it now and try it on your current card), you should head over to the CPUs and Overclocking forum for some help with that Q9300. As I said, I think it will bottleneck the HD7850 at least somewhat in Skyrim, and you should be able to get a bit more performance out of it if you want to.

 

[lkailburn]

Done and done. Card will be here before the weekend. I'll post up before and after FRAPS

-Luke

 

[mfenn]

FWIW, Termie has given you really good advice here. The 7850 2GB is just what you should be shooting for in terms of picking a card that is cost effective and well matched to your existing setup.

 

[Termie]

FWIW, Termie has given you really good advice here. The 7850 2GB is just what you should be shooting for in terms of picking a card that is cost effective and well matched to your existing setup.

Thanks, mfenn.

 

[lkailburn]

Dang Termie I just saw the HIS IceQ 7870 hot deal you posted. It's still available from newegg at $199.99, although no more sleeping dogs game(too bad it looked great too). I haven't received a shipping confirmation. Should I consider cancelling the 7850 for this?

-Luke

 

[Termie]

Dang Termie I just saw the HIS IceQ 7870 hot deal you posted. It's still available from newegg at $199.99, although no more sleeping dogs game(too bad it looked great too). I haven't received a shipping confirmation. Should I consider cancelling the 7850 for this?

-Luke

That card is a very good deal, but it's huge, and we've already had one person in that hot deals thread buy the card and not be able to fit it in his case. It's almost 12" long. If you make sure you have the clearance for the card, then yes, by all means cancel the 7850 and buy the 7870, not because you'll get that much out of it with your CPU, but because it's essentially the same price.

 

[lkailburn]

Yep it looks like I can make it fit. If i have to i can remove the extra hdd cage and then it'll 100% fit. Stupid me, but since this is the first time in a while that i've looked inside the case with it on, i just realized the rear 120mm fan is dead! recommendations for super quiet fan?

-Luke

I probably went overkill on the fan, seeing as the price was 2x or even 4x the cheapies. I got the Noctua NF-P12-1300 120mm. I love a quiet case.

7850 cancelled, and HIS iceq 7870 ordered! Too bad it didn't still have the sleeping dogs promo. That game actually looks really nice!

 

[Termie]

Yep it looks like I can make it fit. If i have to i can remove the extra hdd cage and then it'll 100% fit. Stupid me, but since this is the first time in a while that i've looked inside the case with it on, i just realized the rear 120mm fan is dead! recommendations for super quiet fan?

-Luke

I probably went overkill on the fan, seeing as the price was 2x or even 4x the cheapies. I got the Noctua NF-P12-1300 120mm. I love a quiet case.

7850 cancelled, and HIS iceq 7870 ordered! Too bad it didn't still have the sleeping dogs promo. That game actually looks really nice!

Congrats on grabbing that 7870 for $200AR. I'm glad it will fit in your case, because it's a real steal at that price. Gives you even more reason to get some help with your CPU overclocking efforts, though!

And yeah, you probably went overkill on the fan, but a good quality fan like a Noctua will last you a very long time, likely over many builds. I use Scythe fans exclusively, and at around $12-15 a piece, they are a bit expensive but totally worth it in my opinion.

 

[lkailburn]

Yeah I will see what the after fraps look like and then see about maybe doing a little OC.

I'm really looking forward to the noctua. I figure worst case it's quiet but only lasts this current build. Best case it's super quiet and lasts this build AND the next. At $26 I'm hoping for the later haha. I need to get a 120mm for the front of the case some time. I'll keep scythe in mind

-Luke

 

[lkailburn]

Thought I should post up before and after Fraps:

Before(FPS) After(FPS)

Low settings: 60 +
Medium Settings: 30-45 60
High Settings: 12-30 55
Ultra Settings: N/A 40-50

Those are best estimates as to the ranges. i didn't run any hardcore number statistics. I've already loaded bethesda's hi-res pack while maintaining ultra settings and have no problem running except for fires..they seem to drop the FPS down.

I'm going to try out some of the texture packs...namely a big one the TPC and see if I can handle it.

Thanks for all the help. By the way, the Noctua doesn't make noise... it's very quite! And I'm running it straight through, not with LNA or LNA

-Luke

 

[Termie]

Thought I should post up before and after Fraps:

Before(FPS) After(FPS)

Low settings: 60 +
Medium Settings: 30-45 60
High Settings: 12-30 55
Ultra Settings: N/A 40-50

Those are best estimates as to the ranges. i didn't run any hardcore number statistics. I've already loaded bethesda's hi-res pack while maintaining ultra settings and have no problem running except for fires..they seem to drop the FPS down.

I'm going to try out some of the texture packs...namely a big one the TPC and see if I can handle it.

Thanks for all the help. By the way, the Noctua doesn't make noise... it's very quite! And I'm running it straight through, not with LNA or LNA

-Luke

Awesome results. I'd say you're a bit cpu limited now, but you're clearly getting around 2x better performance, you have the ability to run ultra, and it sounds like this is the type of upgrade you were looking for. There's still some untapped potential in the 7870, but for now enjoy your gaming at a higher level.

 

[lkailburn]

Definitely happy with the results. The game is almost perfectly playable with the TPC(which is 3 seperate HD res packs, plus 42 additional HD packs(small stuff))Will have to dial it back a bit .

I'm completely happy with the purchase!

-Luke

EDIT: Oh yeah, forgot to mention how freaking big this card is! It's a bohemith. I had to modify my lowest drive cage but it wasn't a big deal, moved one drive,only took a few minutes. It looks great in the case

 

[lkailburn]

Termie did you get my pm?
-Luke

 

[mfenn]

EDIT: Oh yeah, forgot to mention how freaking big this card is! It's a bohemith. I had to modify my lowest drive cage but it wasn't a big deal, moved one drive,only took a few minutes. It looks great in the case

Glad you like it.

BTW, if you think a 7870 is big, don't you dare go looking at a 7970. :awe:

 

[lkailburn]

Forgot to update. I turned down antialiasing and anistropic filtering to help with the fps a bit after loading all the HD textures.
Right now I average 35FPS but see a common range of 30-50fps, with only the occassional dip to 25fps(like when i just fast travel to a city, the first second dips. Then once it loads everything picks back up to 35fps+). Anything above 35fps is playable to my eyes so I'm really happy to be able to load all this stuff and not have lag.

This is with over 6GB of HD texture packs loaded. It's like playing a completely different game.

Just curious what your thoughts are from this point forward if am I CPU limited or mobo bandwidth limited? Would a tool like passmark or 3dmark11 help show the next bottleneck?

-Luke


EDIT: let me actually rephrase that. "Is there any potential for FPS gain by Oc'ing the current setup"

 

[Termie]

Forgot to update. I turned down antialiasing and anistropic filtering to help with the fps a bit after loading all the HD textures.
Right now I average 35FPS but see a common range of 30-50fps, with only the occassional dip to 25fps(like when i just fast travel to a city, the first second dips. Then once it loads everything picks back up to 35fps+). Anything above 35fps is playable to my eyes so I'm really happy to be able to load all this stuff and not have lag.

This is with over 6GB of HD texture packs loaded. It's like playing a completely different game.

Just curious what your thoughts are from this point forward if am I CPU limited or mobo bandwidth limited? Would a tool like passmark or 3dmark11 help show the next bottleneck?

-Luke


EDIT: let me actually rephrase that. "Is there any potential for FPS gain by Oc'ing the current setup"

I highly doubt you are bandwidth limited, as long as you are in the 16x slot of your motherboard (that would be the first slot). Double-check the specs on your motherboard, but if it's PCIe 2.0 x16, it's equivalent to PCIe 3.0 x8, which is fine for a 7870.

If turning down AA and AF is significantly improving fps, you probably aren't that CPU-limited, but I'd be surprised if the 7870 is really straining that much with AF in particular - you can keep that at max.

Another thing you can try is overclocking the GPU via the Catalyst Control Center and seeing if that makes a difference. If it doesn't, your at least partly CPU-limited. Just overclock to 1100MHz clock speed, which is well within the safe range for that GPU.

By the way, 3dMark11 will definitely show a huge CPU-bottleneck, but that's because it has CPU physics in the benchmark. I don't know if that's applicable to Skyrim.

My hunch is that even with the hi-res texture pack added, an HD7870 should be able to give you well over 35fps, but I haven't seen any benchmarks of the modded game (or even the game after the critical patch that improved CPU performance), so you're kind of blazing a trail here.