Life Update - A LOT has Changed

[Retro Rob]

Sup guys,

It been a really long time since I've been active here. Back a few years ago, I was heavily involved in the NFL Discussion threads and more of the religious/political debate. I was known for taking the position of defending the existence of a creator-god and an opposer to evolution. Well, not anymore.

I would not call myself a full-blown atheist, but no longer believe in an interventionist god, and I certainly reject the malevolent god of the Bible. This did NOT happen overnight. Let me explain:

I was a diehard Jehovah's Witness (JW for short) when I joined Anantech 2012. I became a JW in 2006. I didn't question the cult for years. Then in 2020 when we were on lockdown because of Covid (JWs kept their churches closed until April 2023), I had time to think and really evaluate my beliefs since we were off the hamster wheel of weekly in person meetings.

I began to see the lies and hypocrisy of the leadership (Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses - GB for short). I really saw how they didn't know a fucking thing about Covid even though they claimed divine backing. Over 20,000 JWs died of Covid and they consistently claimed to have god's protection. It made no sense. God's hand is allegedly protecting us yet tens of thousands have died? Guess who didn't catch Covid? The cult leadership. Since then, I've seen just how man-made the religion is. All the doctrinal flop-flops, money-grabbing, etc. Too many details to share in one post.

So in September 2023, I attended my last JW church service and never looked back. I've become somewhat of an ex-JW activist. I warn people not to join, and the abuses, brutal shunning and death-dealing blood policy.

Since then, looking at the world for what it truly is and not what I wish it to be, I've become probably more deist than atheist. I reject god as this loving creator. God is probably an asshole since he's been watching the world burn for countless millennia.

But here I am. It took a REALLY long time for me to be comfortable writing this. But I have made peace with my new reality. The world has become much easier to understand without the wishful. magical thinking of the JW cult.

Thanks and I will see ya later. Back to work!

 

[lxskllr]

Well, you're almost there. Deism is just trainingwheels for atheism. Fairly harmless unless you let it blind you to scientific truth. Happy you got out of the cult. It's just illusion, and I think it does something to some people. Not everyone, but there's a group that looks like they took a few hits of acid and didn't really come back right, or fully come back at all.

 

[biostud]

I'm a fanatic anti-fanatic.

 

[Retro Rob]

Well, you're almost there. Deism is just trainingwheels for atheism. Fairly harmless unless you let it blind you to scientific truth. Happy you got out of the cult. It's just illusion, and I think it does something to some people. Not everyone, but there's a group that looks like they took a few hits of acid and didn't really come back right, or fully come back at all.

Leaving that cult was the best decision I made. Perhaps you're correct about Deism. I see no evidence of a god, but it could be because we haven't got the ability to detect a god. I am not ready to make the leap to the certainty of atheism, however.

 

[lxskllr]

Leaving that cult was the best decision I made. Perhaps you're correct about Deism. I see no evidence of a god, but it could be because we haven't got the ability to detect a god. I am not ready to make the leap to the certainty of atheism, however.

I don't treat atheism as an absolute. At this point it is, but I'll switch in a second if compelling evidence is produced. I always reserve the right to change my mind. I suppose that could be considered agnosticism, but agnosticism as I see it is too wishy-washy. I don't leave as much room for gods as agnostics do.

All that's just semantics and word games though. Keeping an open mind, analyzing evidence, and not letting mysticism guide your decisions is the important part, whatever you call it.

 

[IronWing]

Welcome back!

Come to animism! No gods to worry about, you just have to decide if the rock is happier where it is or happier in your pocket. 🙂

 

[Retro Rob]

Welcome back!

Come to animism! No gods to worry about, you just have to decide if the rock is happier where it is or happier in your pocket. 🙂

Don't think I heard of that till just now lol

 

[Retro Rob]

I don't treat atheism as an absolute. At this point it is, but I'll switch in a second if compelling evidence is produced. I always reserve the right to change my mind. I suppose that could be considered agnosticism, but agnosticism as I see it is too wishy-washy. I don't leave as much room for gods as agnostics do.

All that's just semantics and word games though. Keeping an open mind, analyzing evidence, and not letting mysticism guide your decisions is the important part, whatever you call it.

Yeah, I agree with you here.

 

[nakedfrog]

I have a particularly dim view of the JWs after seeing the impact on someone's life after she was disassociated following the church's cover-up of her sexual assault by a family member. The perpetrator remains a member in good standing, of course.
Not that this general behavior is specific to the JWs, but being disassociated adds an extra layer of terribleness.

 

[BoomerD]

My thoughts (if you can call the addled musings of an old man “thoughts”) are that, IF there truly is this all powerful being that created everything out of nothing…
1) Where did “he” create it?
2) Where was “he” before he created it?
3) Why would such a being even give a shit about humanity any more than we care about the ant hills under our feet? (if even that much)

 

[WelshBloke]

I don't treat atheism as an absolute. At this point it is, but I'll switch in a second if compelling evidence is produced. I always reserve the right to change my mind.

I think most atheists are the same. Obviously if some guy with a beard descends from a cloud and starts doing lots of inexplicable magic then we are going to readdress our thinking about it!
That said if that happened it would mean that everything we think about how everything works would be wrong, science would be wrong, there would be no logic in the way the universe runs if you can change it with a magic trick. Also if one entity is above the natural laws that means that all entities are above the natural laws and everything breaks down.

I suppose that could be considered agnosticism, but agnosticism as I see it is too wishy-washy. I don't leave as much room for gods as agnostics do.

Agnosticism seems to me just a word people used to avoid being persecuted for blasphemy back in the day if they were actually atheists.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Well, you're almost there. Deism is just trainingwheels for atheism. Fairly harmless unless you let it blind you to scientific truth. Happy you got out of the cult. It's just illusion, and I think it does something to some people. Not everyone, but there's a group that looks like they took a few hits of acid and didn't really come back right, or fully come back at all.

- Deism is a fairly broad category, but a lot of this stuff really comes down to semantics. God as a word doesn't really mean much. For some people it can be a wisened old man on a cloud shitting lightning bolts and farting thunder, for others it is simply the infinite unknowable order of the universe, and everything in between.

All said and done no one should ever buy someone else's idea of god, there is no reason we cannot all introspectively find out way to God (or the absence thereof) on our own.

 

[Retro Rob]

I have a particularly dim view of the JWs after seeing the impact on someone's life after she was disassociated following the church's cover-up of her sexual assault by a family member. The perpetrator remains a member in good standing, of course.
Not that this general behavior is specific to the JWs, but being disassociated adds an extra layer of terribleness.

Sexual abuse is an issue with the JW cult because of how they move heaven and earth to keep it covered up. The shunning of minors and children has caused shockwaves across the world to where in places like Norway and Sweden, they have their government funding stripped.

It is a wicked practice. I've had to shun close friends and treated them like they were dead. All controlling bullshit.

 

[nakedfrog]

All said and done no one should ever buy someone else's idea of god, there is no reason we cannot all introspectively find out way to God (or the absence thereof) on our own.

Yeah but how do I use that to make people do what I want?

 

[Retro Rob]

I think most atheists are the same. Obviously if some guy with a beard descends from a cloud and starts doing lots of inexplicable magic then we are going to readdress our thinking about it!
That said if that happened it would mean that everything we think about how everything works would be wrong, science would be wrong, there would be no logic in the way the universe runs if you can change it with a magic trick. Also if one entity is above the natural laws that means that all entities are above the natural laws and everything breaks down.

But then the question would be who's fucking god is that?

I am not gonna lie, I would need more still. It's one thing for this god to exist, it's an entirely different issue when it comes to "his" moral character. That comes with the territory.

No way god shows itself without demanding something from humanity.

 

[WelshBloke]

But then the question would be who's fucking god is that?

I mean it doesn't really matter. If one of them can exist then lots of them can exist.
Atheist doesn't mean "doesn't specifically believe in the Christian god", it means "yeah, with our current understanding of the universe supernatural beings are impossible in general".
So to me whether a specific supernatural being is the basis of a current religion is a minor point, it's that all the standing laws of physics will have been negated by this beings existence.

I am not gonna lie, I would need more still. It's one thing for this god to exist, it's an entirely different issue when it comes to "his" moral character. That comes with the territory.

I think that your looking at a religion based on a supernatural being rather than the existence of a supernatural being.

No way god shows itself without demanding something from humanity.

Well that's how all sentient beings are.

 

[IronWing]

But then the question would be who's fucking god is that?

I am not gonna lie, I would need more still. It's one thing for this god to exist, it's an entirely different issue when it comes to "his" moral character. That comes with the territory.

No way god shows itself without demanding something from humanity.

To get to a morally sound god, you need at least three gods. Given evil in this world, with only one god, that god would have to be an asshole. Two gods and the "good" one would have to be the weaker one. Three or more gods and you can explain the world through Greek and Roman style divine soap-operas.

 

[nakedfrog]

To get to a morally sound god, you need at least three gods. Given evil in this world, with only one god, that god would have to be an asshole. Two gods and the "good" one would have to be the weaker one. Three or more gods and you can explain the world through Greek and Roman style divine soap-operas.

 

[WelshBloke]

Now that's a religion I could briefly get behind!

 

[Retro Rob]

I mean it doesn't really matter. If one of them can exist then lots of them can exist.
Atheist doesn't mean "doesn't specifically believe in the Christian god", it means "yeah, with our current understanding of the universe supernatural beings are impossible in general".

Fair point. But I think it matters a lot. Because if it's the bloodthirsty tyrant of the OT, a shit storm would ensue. If its Jesus of the NT, then he's still a bit of a jerk but is generally good. If it's the Muslim version, then watch the fuck out.

I think that your looking at a religion based on a supernatural being rather than the existence of a supernatural being.

Well that's how all sentient beings are.

Well, humans have worshipped something our entire documented history and religion is just as old as we are. If a god does exist, its only logical that it exists in a specific framework.