Licensure

[Anarchist420]

If you needed medical care and could pick who would do it, would you generally want someone with a degree or would you be fine with someone else of your choice doing it who had never gone to 3 or more years of medical school?

I'd be fine to have someone I picked do it who had never gone to medical school, especially since you don't always get to pick your doctor under the current system anyway.

That's not to say that I would always pick the unproven (like procedures, drugs, etc.) because in many and maybe most cases I wouldn't. But I find that nurses with less education are usually better caregivers than those with more education... they may have less education because they know how to do it themselves or are successful despite legislation against them (or for other reasons like the fact that education establishments can try to indoctrinate people) or they just have one or more specialties that they learn as legislation can't cover everything (the market always wins in the long term).

 

[AViking]

Are you really asking whether I would trust my health to a non-professional with no training?

LOL

Your observations make no sense.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

Your observations make no sense.

Their observations make perfect sense.

It's not like it would damage/effect/break/blow-up your computer, car or a loved one or anything important.

Yes you might lose a limb or three, and maybe die in extreme agony (as they forget to give you any pain killers), but no real harm and there are still 6 billion people left in the world, right ?

As with most things, if they are completely inexperienced, have absolutely no qualifications whatsoever, are very successful at obtaining the LOWEST possible scores in IQ tests, then they make the best people to use, don't they ?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Let me paraphrase. "Do you think people who don't know what they are doing should be allowed to pretend they are experts and kill/maim/cripple others? I know I do"

 

[AViking]

You're right. Hold on the girl scouts are at my door and I need someone to perform open heart surgery.

 

[AViking]

OP is either a troll or has an IQ less than 50.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

OP is either a troll or has an IQ less than 50.

Well to be fair we have the equivalent making decisions about health care in DC and were OK with that.

 

[PottedMeat]

Are you really asking whether I would trust my health to a non-professional with no training?

LOL

Your observations make no sense.

heheh

i would pick dr nick ( who at least went to hollywood upstairs medical college and presumably has a license ) over someone with no training

 

[Soundmanred]

Hi everybody!

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

I like to think that I'm good at fixing broken/ill/sick/unwell computers, and diagnosing their faulty/sick/unwell (cpu) brains.

Let me sort out ALL your medical problems and issues.
I'll bring my electric saw, hot soldering iron, electricians tools and total lack of any medical qualifications or experience, and fix you up in less time, less inconvenience, and slightly less cost than a real doctor.

EDIT: Testimonials:
None of my former patients have ever complained (in fact, even my botched attempt at fixing the over-eating Quad-core, sorry I mean over-heating, did not complain afterwards). Come to think of it, none of my computer repairs have ever spoken to me yet.

 

[Anarchist420]

I thought I shouldn't have made this thread but I did it anyway. I didn't mean for it to be interpreted as so black and white and I misphrased it.

Anyway, what i really meant was "do you favor State licensure or should it be abolished"? Apprenticeship, competing medical standards, and certifications can be used.

Some large established medical schools may have some use. However, most of them are subsidized and therefore regulated by the govt and it's not like everyone needs to go to a large established school to practice medicine successfully. I mean, Harvard would be subject to competition with competing certifications if it weren't for the State.

 

[Anarchist420]

i would pick dr nick ( who at least went to hollywood upstairs medical college and presumably has a license ) over someone with no training

I don't recall saying zero training would be okay for good medical care. And an MD is the highest medical license that arbitrary criteria has to be met for when there doesn't need to be a state-enforced hierarchy of healthcare certification.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

I don't recall saying zero training would be okay for good medical care. And an MD is the highest medical license that arbitrary criteria has to be met for when there doesn't need to be a state-enforced hierarchy of healthcare certification.

Ok, let's look at this from a different perspective.

Would you prefer your major surgery, medical diagnosis or complicated medical procedure to be performed by a Qualified Doctor, with 8 years experience ?

Or by a standard Nurse, also qualified (as a nurse), and experienced for 8 years ?

Assuming it is NOT putting a bandage on, changing a dressing, giving an injection etc. I.e. It is something which DEFINITELY needs a real Doctor to perform ?

 

[Anarchist420]

Or by a standard Nurse, also qualified (as a nurse), and experienced for 8 years ? Assuming it is NOT putting a bandage on, changing a dressing, giving an injection etc. I.e. It is something which DEFINITELY needs a real Doctor to perform ?

If the nurse has seen it done before and I can verify that, has an iq comparable to the doctor and if I can verify that, and if I thought the nurse cared more about patients, then yes I'd pick the nurse if they were willing to do the major surgery. There are numerous reasons people don't get a higher education through generations-old institutions. Thank you

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

If the nurse has seen it done before and I can verify that, has an iq comparable to the doctor and if I can verify that, and if I thought the nurse cared more about patients, then yes I'd pick the nurse if they were willing to do that. There are numerous reasons people don't get a higher education. Thank you

Unfortunately that does not seem work.

VERY APPROXIMATELY**, 90% of the time, what you just said could work out.

But what about the other 10%** of the time when things don't go to plan ?

E.g. The Nurse performs the same surgery that they have seen done three times before, but this time the patient suffers a heart attack during the surgery and other complications that the nurse has never seen or experienced (but a qualified/trained Doctor) would have been taught what to do, and how to diagnose and handle that situation.

I.e. A competent qualified Doctor would be able to save the life of most/all of the other 10%

But a Nurse may well end up losing the life (or other disastrous consequences) for 10% of the patients who develop complications.

 

[Anarchist420]

E.g. The Nurse performs the same surgery that they have seen done three times before, but this time the patient suffers a heart attack during the surgery and other complications that the nurse has never seen or experienced (but a qualified/trained Doctor) would have been taught what to do, and how to diagnose and handle that situation. I.e. A competent qualified Doctor would be able to save the life of most/all of the other 10% But a Nurse may well end up losing the life for 10% of the patients who develop complications.

Depends on if I could verify the nurse's mbti and the doctor's MBTI and how much of a price difference there was.

I would have to know at least one of the individuals at least a little, but I'm not buying that doctors are better.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

and how much of a price difference there was.

Can I check my understanding, of what you mean here.

Hypothetically:
A group of very angry forum users find out where a very annoying forum poster lives, and attack them (no body or forum poster in particular).

Their (the forum poster victim) legs and arms are very badly damaged and very trustworthy friends advice that they think (they are all retired expert Doctors) the legs and arms can be saved and will work 100% fine afterwards, as long as very quick and competent medical work is carried out.
They also think that if not, it is very likely that you** would lose all 4 limbs.

The real professional Doctors (Surgeons), thoroughly recommended by your retired Doctor friends, want $10,000 to perform all surgeries and fix you up (hypothetically** speaking, not saying it was you), and you have the $'s available ?

A a nurse, who you like and trust, and has seen this operation type done three times, is delighted to do it for only $1.

You would go for the $1 Nurse, because it is a cheaper price ?

As well as because ...

but I'm not buying that doctors are better.

 

[EagleKeeper]

You need the state license boards to maintain quality.

1) Weeds out fly by night MDs (they exist)
2) Maintain standards - MDs from out of country need to be validated to need standards

 

[Anarchist420]

As well as because ...

...it would have as much as a chance of success compared to someone with a different degree doing it.

A a nurse, who you like and trust, and has seen this operation type done three times, is delighted to do it for only $1.

Again, there are some really creative, caring, and fluidly intelligent (i.e., can solve new problems creatively, accurately, quickly, and with more than average precision when applicable) nurses out there who aren't even RNs... I've met a nurse like that (I don't think she's even an RN) and I've met several doctors that suck.

 

[Anarchist420]

You need the state license boards to maintain quality. 1) Weeds out fly by night MDs (they exist) 2) Maintain standards - MDs from out of country need to be validated to need standards

You are one Hamiltonian American. No offense intended

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

...it would have as much as a chance of success compared to someone with a different degree doing it.

Again, there are some really creative, caring, and fluidly intelligent (i.e., can solve new problems creatively, accurately, quickly, and with more than average precision when applicable) nurses out there who aren't even RNs... I've met a nurse like that (I don't think she's even an RN) and I've met several doctors that suck.

Ok, in that case, on the basis that you are right ...

If you need any building work, repairs (of any kind), teaching (up to Phd level and above), medical work (including immediate life saving surgery), car repair work, in fact, any work of any kind whatsoever ...

I will do it, at almost 5% discount.
Just paypal me the $'s needed.
And by a single e-mail, I will tell you what to do.
There is no extra charge for this e-mail service.

I assume absolutely no responsibly or anything for what happens afterwards.

As per your requirements, I am a happy, smiling friendly face, so suited for any task, as I have equivalent experience (assuming gaming*, sleeping in the day*, and general lounging about*) (* = tiny possibility of a joke) counts as equivalent.

(Don't worry, I will take a full LACK of responsibility for whatever happens).

I am absolutely NOT joking here, if you don't believe me, paypal me $1,000,000+ and I will confirm, with a (brief) e-mail.

 

[WelshBloke]

If the nurse has seen it done before and I can verify that, has an iq comparable to the doctor and if I can verify that, and if I thought the nurse cared more about patients, then yes I'd pick the nurse if they were willing to do the major surgery. There are numerous reasons people don't get a higher education through generations-old institutions. Thank you

I've seen quite a bit of orthopaedic surgery, I'll be round in a bit with my hammer, chisel and saw.

Also my mate has a long history of getting wasted, can we use him as the anaesthetist? He'll probably leave enough of the painkillers for you.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

I've seen quite a bit of orthopaedic surgery, I'll be round in a bit with my hammer, chisel and saw.

Also my mate has a long history of getting wasted, can we use him as the anaesthetist? He'll probably leave enough of the painkillers for you.

Please don't make fun here.

Watching the orthopaedic surgery has made your experience too much like a real doctor, so it is not suitable.

You need to be experienced in woodwork or metal work or something, otherwise you may (at least slightly) know what you are doing, which would be no good.

 

[WelshBloke]

Please don't make fun here.

Watching the orthopaedic surgery has made your experience too much like a real doctor, so it is not suitable.

You need to be experienced in woodwork or metal work or something, otherwise you may (at least slightly) know what you are doing, which would be no good.

I made a stool once at school if that counts? Also some ninja throwing stars in metalwork, but I got in trouble for that.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

I made a stool once at school if that counts? Also some ninja throwing stars in metalwork, but I got in trouble for that.

That's fine (as long as you were smiling and friendly to the person you injured with the ninja throwing).

N.B. Make sure that you watch at least 5 minutes of a hospital soap drama, to make sure that you have enough qualifications and equivalent experience (ideally done in the last 30 years or so, to make sure it is a "fresh" memory).

P.S. Any drama/film/comedy/documentary/test-card/blank-screen show will do, as it is counted as "equivalent".