Library Failed to Extort Me - Thanks for all the support!

[Kyanzes]

This is capital BS. When you return a book you should sign a card with the exact date of the time of return on it confirming the transaction. Now unless they can pull such a card from somewehere that has no sign on it they are nothing more than a dying whisper in a roaring storm. Also, it should be checked if said books ever got checked out in the last five years. Ofc they may have removed the evidence already. You could also ask around if anyone having the some problem with the library in question. Try a bulletin board approach or talk to the admins to help you contact the peeps. Unless ofc you are bsing around and really stole the books, in which case you should pay up.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude

Originally posted by: mugs
It seems rather unlikely that all six of the books you borrowed just disappeared from the library... It sounds like you're pretty screwed.

not really... if the person who was checking them back into the system screwed up, or if they did some sort of migration of transactional data and dropped some records, then the library would be getting a lot of false positives.

I'm assuming the OP is telling the truth and did in fact return the books. They should be sitting on the shelf somewhere, or they should have been checked out again over the 5 year period.

Well I was also assuming that they would have been check out in the last 5 years, and that the library software would realize that if they've been checked out, they weren't lost 5 years ago.

 

[KillyKillall]

To answer some of the questions:

a) I can't believe I didn't return the books because I've never done so
b) I have not found the books in my possession at this point - although I am looking to make sure I didn't pack them away somewhere and really cause this
c) They show that all books were not returned and have checked 5 times for me now to make sure they are not on the shelf

My next steps:

1. Finish searching old boxes in the garage
2. If books are found, return and hang my head in shame - pay any late fees
3. If books are not found, I will contact the collector and univsersity to ask for all documentation of this
4. Then I will use free legal council I get through work (I only get a few hours a year) to see how I should proceed

 

[KillyKillall]

Originally posted by: Kyanzes
This is capital BS. When you return a book you should sign a card with the exact date of the time of return on it confirming the transaction.

What library do you go to?

just checked your bio - Maybe in Budapest, but in the US there are book drops near the doors of the library for most returns.

 

[J0hnny]

Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude
1) write a polite letter that says:
a) your understanding of events
b) the date of your first notice
c) request that the library provide you with a copy of their records for the books in question over the period of time in question.
d) request a copy of all your transactions during the period of time in question.

Look to see if the books have been checked out since your returned them and go and see if you can find the books on the shelves. Finding just 1 of them would exonerate you.

WOW! THAT'S really good thinking!

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

Originally posted by: KillyKillall
To answer some of the questions:

a) I can't believe I didn't return the books because I've never done so
b) I have not found the books in my possession at this point - although I am looking to make sure I didn't pack them away somewhere and really cause this
c) They show that all books were not returned and have checked 5 times for me now to make sure they are not on the shelf

My next steps:

1. Finish searching old boxes in the garage
2. If books are found, return and hang my head in shame - pay any late fees
3. If books are not found, I will contact the collector and univsersity to ask for all documentation of this
4. Then I will use free legal council I get through work (I only get a few hours a year) to see how I should proceed

Why did they wait 4 years before sending you late return and lost book notices? To me that is the smoking gun that indicates that this is their error.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: KillyKillall
To answer some of the questions:

a) I can't believe I didn't return the books because I've never done so
b) I have not found the books in my possession at this point - although I am looking to make sure I didn't pack them away somewhere and really cause this
c) They show that all books were not returned and have checked 5 times for me now to make sure they are not on the shelf

My next steps:

1. Finish searching old boxes in the garage
2. If books are found, return and hang my head in shame - pay any late fees
3. If books are not found, I will contact the collector and univsersity to ask for all documentation of this
4. Then I will use free legal council I get through work (I only get a few hours a year) to see how I should proceed

Can you just replace the books? You can probably get them used on Amazon in good shape for much less... maybe even publishers remainders in brand new shape.

 

[KillyKillall]

Update #1 - 7-25-06 12:10 p.m.
I verified last night that these books are not in my library and I'm pretty damn sure that I returned them.

My contact at the collection company called again this morning to see if I have been able to work anything out with the university - I informed him that I have not. He informed me that if I dispute the charges that it will not impact my credit scoring on my credit report when they send it in August. Is that accurate?

I found out who the head of collections is at the university library and acquired her address so that I could send certified mail to it if needed. I have left her 2 messages today (8:00 a.m. and 12:00 p.m.) to contact me and have not heard back yet. I also asked them to provide me a history of the account, however they refused saying that only the head of collections can discuss my account with me.

This is really starting to get frustrating.

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: KillyKillall
Update #1 - 7-25-06 12:10 p.m.
I verified last night that these books are not in my library and I'm pretty damn sure that I returned them.

My contact at the collection company called again this morning to see if I have been able to work anything out with the university - I informed him that I have not. He informed me that if I dispute the charges that it will not impact my credit scoring on my credit report when they send it in August. Is that accurate?

I found out who the head of collections is at the university library and acquired her address so that I could send certified mail to it if needed. I have left her 2 messages today (8:00 a.m. and 12:00 p.m.) to contact me and have not heard back yet. I also asked them to provide me a history of the account, however they refused saying that only the head of collections can discuss my account with me.

This is really starting to get frustrating.

Hmmm... if they really aren't there then it sounds like maybe you aren't remembering correctly and never did return them. It seems hard to believe that all the books you borrowed at one time all turned up missing from the library after you returned them. The only other possibility I can think of is maybe someone robbed the drop box where you returned the books?

Of course the counter that would be why did they wait 4 years to notify you? None of this seems to make any sense.

 

[Viper GTS]

I would post it here:

http://www.creditboards.com/forums

Before you do anything else, quit talking to the collections agency on the phone. Absolutely do not, under any circumstances.

Next step is going to be to DV the collections agency, also send them a limited cease & desist so that they have explicit instructions to contact you ONLY in writing via USPS mail. If they call you after that, sue them. That should cover your library fine & then some. The DV will stop collections activity (and reporting, meaning it will disappear from your report at least temporarily) until they send you documentation of the debt.

Also, quit dealing with the library. They sold the debt to the collections agency (probably for pennies on the dollar) and have no further involvement. It's now up to the collections agency to come up with proof that:

1) You owe the money
2) They have a right to collect it
3) The debt is still within your state's SOL

Etc, etc, etc.

If they can't do that, too bad for them. Part of the danger in buying debt, a lot of it is going to be junk. Odds are they don't have any proper documentation & you can give them the finger.

Viper GTS

 

[Bulldog13]

Originally posted by: Thraxen
Go to the library and see if the books are there?

I would actually try this. The same exact thing happened to me sophmore year at college. I got a letter saying I owed a few hundred for a bunch of books I had checked out in the previous semester (obscure religious ones). I kept explaining that I had already dropped them off, last semester.

Finally, I went down to the library to bitch in person, but college bureacracy is invincible.

Her : "The computer says the books weren't returned."
Me : "So...more likely no one scanned the books in again."
Her : "The computer doesn't lie."
Me : "Yes, it can"
Her : "NO IT CANNOT"
Me : "I'm a software engineering undergrad...I know intimately well, how much they can lie."
Her : "IT SAYS YOU DID NOT RETURN THEM, YOU MUST PAY THE FEES OR WE WILL WITHHOLD YOUR FINAL GRADES"
Me : "..."
Me : "Give me an intern who knows where they should be, so I can go find them."
Her: "We've already looked, THEY ARE NOT THERE."
Me : "Give me the numbers then, I ll go look for them"
Her: "FINE !....NEXT !"

5 minutes later I returned with the books. Then I hit her in the head with a brick and urinated on her carcass.

 

[KillyKillall]

Viper/Bulldog,

thank you both for your advice. Someone else said I should go check myself as well. Something in my head tells me I even paid late fees on returning these books, but I'll find out when they give me my full history - hopefully.

I'm posting on creditboard now to get some advice there.

 

[JS80]

wow when did you go to college? i graduated in 2004 and i never once checked out a book.

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: Bulldog13

Originally posted by: Thraxen
Go to the library and see if the books are there?

I would actually try this. The same exact thing happened to me sophmore year at college. I got a letter saying I owed a few hundred for a bunch of books I had checked out in the previous semester (obscure religious ones). I kept explaining that I had already dropped them off, last semester.

Finally, I went down to the library to bitch in person, but college bureacracy is invincible.

Her : "The computer says the books weren't returned."
Me : "So...more likely no one scanned the books in again."
Her : "The computer doesn't lie."
Me : "Yes, it can"
Her : "NO IT CANNOT"
Me : "I'm a software engineering undergrad...I know intimately well, how much they can lie."
Her : "IT SAYS YOU DID NOT RETURN THEM, YOU MUST PAY THE FEES OR WE WILL WITHHOLD YOUR FINAL GRADES"
Me : "..."
Me : "Give me an intern who knows where they should be, so I can go find them."
Her: "We've already looked, THEY ARE NOT THERE."
Me : "Give me the numbers then, I ll go look for them"
Her: "FINE !....NEXT !"

5 minutes later I returned with the books. Then I hit her in the head with a brick and urinated on her carcass.

:laugh: Nice story.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Bulldog13

Originally posted by: Thraxen
Go to the library and see if the books are there?

I would actually try this. The same exact thing happened to me sophmore year at college. I got a letter saying I owed a few hundred for a bunch of books I had checked out in the previous semester (obscure religious ones). I kept explaining that I had already dropped them off, last semester.

Finally, I went down to the library to bitch in person, but college bureacracy is invincible.

Her : "The computer says the books weren't returned."
Me : "So...more likely no one scanned the books in again."
Her : "The computer doesn't lie."
Me : "Yes, it can"
Her : "NO IT CANNOT"
Me : "I'm a software engineering undergrad...I know intimately well, how much they can lie."
Her : "IT SAYS YOU DID NOT RETURN THEM, YOU MUST PAY THE FEES OR WE WILL WITHHOLD YOUR FINAL GRADES"
Me : "..."
Me : "Give me an intern who knows where they should be, so I can go find them."
Her: "We've already looked, THEY ARE NOT THERE."
Me : "Give me the numbers then, I ll go look for them"
Her: "FINE !....NEXT !"

5 minutes later I returned with the books. Then I hit her in the head with a brick and urinated on her carcass.

i did close to the same (minus the brick and urinating). they sent me a notice that they a book was late by a year for $39 due and if i did not pay or turn in the book i would be arrested.

so i went to the library and found it on the shelf. heh the head person was very sorry about it.

 

[Bulldog13]

Originally posted by: JS80
wow when did you go to college? i graduated in 2004 and i never once checked out a book.

state or community ?

 

[Rapidskies]

This is why I always take digital images of each book as I put it in the library drop box. I would also suggest documenting paying bills the same way via snailmail. Be sure to hold up a newspaper with the days date on it in every pic. Good luck!

 

[KillyKillall]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
I would post it here:

http://www.creditboards.com/forums

I have to wait for someone to manually approve my account before I can post or even review sample letters to send.

 

[Modular]

Originally posted by: KillyKillall

3 days ago I received an alert that my credit score dropped 17 points due to a credit inquiry.

What service does this for you?

 

[KillyKillall]

Originally posted by: Modular

Originally posted by: KillyKillall

3 days ago I received an alert that my credit score dropped 17 points due to a credit inquiry.

What service does this for you?

www.myfico.com

 

[lokiju]

Originally posted by: Rapidskies
This is why I always take digital images of each book as I put it in the library drop box. I would also suggest documenting paying bills the same way via snailmail. Be sure to hold up a newspaper with the days date on it in every pic. Good luck!

Wow that seems totally unreasonable to do every time.

 

[PingSpike]

Burn down the library. Kill all who occupy it, save one person...to tell the tale of what happens to those that cross you.

 

[thomsbrain]

Originally posted by: lokiju

Originally posted by: Rapidskies
This is why I always take digital images of each book as I put it in the library drop box. I would also suggest documenting paying bills the same way via snailmail. Be sure to hold up a newspaper with the days date on it in every pic. Good luck!

Wow that seems totally unreasonable to do every time.

not to mention it doesn't actually prove that you COMPLETED the action of putting the book though the slot.

 

[thomsbrain]

i'm confused by "checked my library."

do you mean you checked your own personal collection of books you didn't have the books in question, or you went to the public library branch in question and looked for them on the shelves?

 

[KillyKillall]

Sending the following letter to the company once I finish proof-reading:

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is being sent to you in response to a notice sent to me on (Date). Be advised that this is not a refusal to pay, but a notice sent pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, 15 USC 1692g Sec. 809 that your claim is disputed and validation is requested.

This is NOT a request for verification or proof of my mailing address, but a request for VALIDATION made pursuant to the above named Title and Section. I respectfully request that your offices provide me with competent evidence that I have any legal obligation to pay you.

At this time I will also inform you that if your offices have reported invalidated information to any of the 3 major Credit Bureaus (Equifax, Experian or TransUnion) this action might constitute fraud under both Federal and State Laws. Due to this fact, if any negative mark is found on any of my credit reports by your company or the company that you represent I will not hesitate in bringing legal action against you and your client for the following:

- Violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act

- Violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act

- Defamation of Character

If your offices are able to provide the proper documentation as requested in the following Declaration, I will require at least 30 days to investigate this information and during such time all collection activity must cease and desist. Also during this validation period, if any action is taken which could be considered detrimental to any of my credit reports, I will consult with my legal counsel for suit. This includes any listing any information to a credit reporting repository that could be inaccurate or invalidated. If your offices fail to respond to this validation request within 30 days from the date of your receipt, all references to this account must be deleted and completely removed from my credit file and a copy of such deletion request shall be sent to me immediately.

I would also like to request, in writing, that no further telephone contact be made by your offices to my home or to my place of employment. If your offices continue to attempt telephone communication with me it will be considered harassment and I will have no choice but to file suit. All future communications with me MUST be done in writing and sent to the address noted in this letter.

It would be advisable that you and your client assure that your records are in order before I am forced to take legal action.

Best Regards