Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Not that I agree with the school in any way, but your thread title is very misleading. Disagreeing with the agendas of gays is different from hating gays.
All depends.
You see the phrase 'gay agenda' is a propaganda phrase. It conjures pictures of some army of communists out to overthrow the nation.
If the 'gay agenda' is for everyone in the school to try gay sex once to see if they like it, that's bad.
But when the 'gay agenda' is, say, to not be stoned to death or imprisoned for being gay; is to have the right to be a teacher or adopt chidren equally; is to be able to marry the person they love equally; then opposing *that* 'gay agenda is to support bigoted discrimination and inequality and that is a gay-hating agenda.
I guarantee you that blacks don't want the return of slavery for them. If a state had a movement that was pushing that return to slavery, and blacks opposed it, the supporters of slavery could say they had a 'black agenda' to oppose it, to make it sound like it was some radicall agenda that non-blacks had no obligation to support. But that propaganda phrase would mask the fact that the issue was not only a 'black agenda', but justice.
No doubt just saying this will get me flamed by some, but not everyone agrees with what you say, and by not agreeing that's hatred.
I've heard both sides of the story and I think I can tell you how the "gay agenda" is defined by them. The concern is that they believe that the Bible says homosexuality is a sin. Now that means that their religious beliefs won't allow them to accept it. That does not mean that they wish to harm anyone, but they do not see it as right. Some actively oppose it for that reason. Others figure that it's something that they have to tolerate, but not accept.
I know more of the latter, and their concern is that people go around calling them haters because they tolerate but do not feel compelled to accept what they are told is morally right. Their point is that the very act of disagreeing is considered hatred. The "agenda" is to make everyone think the same on this issue. You will either think "correctly" or you will be labeled as haters when perhaps the tags are reversed. Conform or be cast out by society.
I very much admire the open-minded tolerance you intend to show here. I have, however, some questions and doubts.
It's all well and good to hold religious beliefs about what is morally right and what is morally wrong. I believe, for example, that when you torture people you sin against your own soul, and you do so whether there is a God or not because the which we think of and call the the soul is real whether there is a God or not, and that your soul, my soul, and the soul of every other person is identical. To sin against another is to sin against yourself and to so is to destroy ones chance of self realization and doing so condemns one to a the hell of a shadow life bereft of spiritual joy unimagined and which, sadly, religious folk childishly believe comes after death in heaven, and the fools who believe in nothing imagine does not exist at all.
There is, therefore, a real and absolute truth obtainable by any person who finds and becomes what he really is, the true-self hidden in every human being, the separation from which creates all suffering, and the acting out of the blind yearning for which creates all evil.
We know that homosexuality is not a choice, those of us who are honest, and we know that your religious affiliation is pure accident of birth and environment.
It therefore cannot be that the belief that homosexuality is evil has equal weight objectively to the fact that is is something some people are born to be.
We know also that the belief that homosexuality is evil leads to violence toward homosexual people and has for thousands of years, thousands of years of torture and misery for people who are born gay. Naturally, there are going to be some enlightened folk who separate the sin from the sinner, who hate the sin and love the sinner as they say, but such people are as rare and any other developed spiritual people.
The norm of religious bigotry is evil toward those who are the object of that bigotry, and I have explained the reasons for this over and over again. We hate ourselves and dump that hate on others to escape dumping it on ourselves. We also psychically kill our gay children so they will not be exposed to ridicule. We beat the enemy to it because we are insane.
Naturally, advanced people will have to love the religious bigot and not his bigotry, but the act of contemptualizing bigots drives no natural impulse underground. Being a bigot is not a natural part of the human soul. It is not a choice because every bigot was created by other bigots, but it is not a natural state and if it is stomped out of existence by ridicule it won't be any loss to me.
People are sheep and when the sheep say bigotry is baaaaaahd there will be far fewer bigots and far less evil done by them.
This, however, is my opinion. I always have hope for bigots and that their bigotry will self end by them seeking the light. But bigotry is dependent on self hate and I see nothing in the way of realization in that regard anywhere but in me. I remain convinced that we would rather go extinct than face how we feel.
