"Liberty and Justice for all" - not so, says 10yo

[JohnOfSheffield]

But this is the NEW world... We designed this place to be free from anyone's bible! The bible or any of God's other reference documents may have a place as the law of the land that adopts that to be so. This here New World we have seems less designed to provide Liberty and Happiness than it does to foster the same.

The bible and the other documents seem to be a message to the individual about how to live as an [insert religion]. IF there is a conflict among the Bible of the various Christian faiths and Muslim which is the more right? Which is to be forced on the rest?

None.

But of course i am preaching to the choir on this one.

What is right is right regardless what anyones text says and what is wrong is wrong regardless of what anyones text says about it.

As a society we decide, most of us have empathy built into us from evolutionary neccessity, we needed it to survive so we pretty much all have it.

Of course there are exceptions and those exceptions make exceptional leaders like Hitler, that is why democracy is important. Not direct democracy though but democracy based on certain rules because at any one time, a majority can actually be a retarded bunch (like electing GW TWICE, well representative or elective democracy can't fix stupidity of the masses all of the time) but it's better than any tried alternative.

 

[sandorski]

Baloney. This kid supposedly is so bothered by the discrimination against gays, but the fact is he can't possibly understand the nature of the supposed discrimination. It's just the stuff his parents fed him. The reality is that the same liberty and justice for all in the pledge that he refuses to stand up for also gives him the right to do so. No problem there, but lets not be naive enough to think that this is the kid thinking this crap up -- it's his idiot parents.

The Discrimination is pretty easy to see. You don't need to understand Sexuality to see the Discrimination.

 

[Double Trouble]

The Discrimination is pretty easy to see. You don't need to understand Sexuality to see the Discrimination.

The only thing he could see as "discrimination" is basically namecalling. Plenty of groups get singled out and bullied, basically anyone that looks/acts/thinks different than the herd. Yet I don't see him talking about all this stuff, he's talking about discrimination against gays -- a concept he can't possibly understand. It's just a reflection of his idiot parents.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

The only thing he could see as "discrimination" is basically namecalling. Plenty of groups get singled out and bullied, basically anyone that looks/acts/thinks different than the herd. Yet I don't see him talking about all this stuff, he's talking about discrimination against gays -- a concept he can't possibly understand. It's just a reflection of his idiot parents.

Oh, he can't see the discrimination?

Ask Atomic Playboy about that.

That you can't comprehend how a ten year old child can understand such simple concepts as right and wrong says a lot about you... Well mostly it says "i can't understand that so how can he?"

 

[sandorski]

The only thing he could see as "discrimination" is basically namecalling. Plenty of groups get singled out and bullied, basically anyone that looks/acts/thinks different than the herd. Yet I don't see him talking about all this stuff, he's talking about discrimination against gays -- a concept he can't possibly understand. It's just a reflection of his idiot parents.

You're not even trying to Think about this. I can tell.

Gay Rights/Gay Marriage is a big issue and has been for many years now. Kids pick up on such things. They don't need to know the minute details to form an opinion or see that something is awry. When I was that age Women's Rights/Equality was a big issue and I knew enough to understand the lack of Fairness of the situation. No Parent had to coach me, it was a regular theme on TV News and Talk Shows.

10 Year Olds are naive as hell, but they are not automatons needing to be coached through these things.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

You're not even trying to Think about this. I can tell.

Gay Rights/Gay Marriage is a big issue and has been for many years now. Kids pick up on such things. They don't need to know the minute details to form an opinion or see that something is awry. When I was that age Women's Rights/Equality was a big issue and I knew enough to understand the lack of Fairness of the situation. No Parent had to coach me, it was a regular theme on TV News and Talk Shows.

10 Year Olds are naive as hell, but they are not automatons needing to be coached through these things.

I'd say they are equipped with empathy which makes them excellent judges of what is wrong or right regardless of societial norms.

What is later taught or instructed changes most people, except mayby for Canadians.

 

[xj0hnx]

Think we should let people in on how this fits so fine with the discussion, your user name and my comment?

Jealous cowards try to control
Rise above
We're gonna rise above
They distort what we say
Rise above
We're gonna rise above
Try and stop what we do
Rise above
When they can't do it themselves

We are tired of your abuse
Try to stop us it's no use

Society's arms of control
Rise above
We're gonna rise above
Think they're smart
Can't think for themselves
Rise above
We're gonna rise above
Laugh at us
Behind our backs
I find satisfaction
In what they lack

We are tired of your abuse
Try to stop us it's no use

We are born with a chance
Rise above
We're gonna rise above
I am gonna have my chance
Rise above
We're gonna rise above

We are tired of your abuse
Try to stop us it's no use

Rise above
Rise above
Rise above
We're gonna rise above
We're gonna rise above
We're gonna rise above

 

[fskimospy]

Where does the law not treat them equally? Everyone is able to marry the opposite sex. Always have been.

You really don't want to make that argument, trust me.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Jealous cowards try to control
Rise above
We're gonna rise above
They distort what we say
Rise above
We're gonna rise above
Try and stop what we do
Rise above
When they can't do it themselves

We are tired of your abuse
Try to stop us it's no use

Society's arms of control
Rise above
We're gonna rise above
Think they're smart
Can't think for themselves
Rise above
We're gonna rise above
Laugh at us
Behind our backs
I find satisfaction
In what they lack

We are tired of your abuse
Try to stop us it's no use

We are born with a chance
Rise above
We're gonna rise above
I am gonna have my chance
Rise above
We're gonna rise above

We are tired of your abuse
Try to stop us it's no use

Rise above
Rise above
Rise above
We're gonna rise above
We're gonna rise above
We're gonna rise above

Aye, good on ya.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

You really don't want to make that argument, trust me.

Actually, thinking back on what he has said he is not against it so his trolling got both you and me.

Good troll is still a troll.

 

[LunarRay]

The Bible takes president over worldly laws as it is the law of God. That there are as many Gods as there are individuals is a mere annoyance. My God is the one that matters.

Heheheheh... Exactly where I was going! ... Your belief trumps cuz you believe it... I say my belief trumps your belief and so on... until we have a clump of belief and we form a religious clump and then we force that and all the collateral belief on the others... divide and conquer.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Heheheheh... Exactly where I was going! ... Your belief trumps cuz you believe it... I say my belief trumps your belief and so on... until we have a clump of belief and we form a religious clump and then we force that and all the collateral belief on the others... divide and conquer.

We are all made the same, through evolution, all equal as we are and forever in every way.

That is the beauty of evoloution, you don't need a belief, it just is and it's been ticking along for billions of years without interference and it's still ticking on today.

So perhaps our children are a bit smarter than we are... perhaps their children are a bit smarter than our children were?

Perhaps even you and me know better than our inhereted ideologies, or even taught ideologies?

I'd like to think that is the way it works.

 

[LunarRay]

None. But of course i am preaching to the choir on this one. What is right is right regardless what anyones text says and what is wrong is wrong regardless of what anyones text says about it. As a society we decide, most of us have empathy built into us from evolutionary neccessity, we needed it to survive so we pretty much all have it. Of course there are exceptions and those exceptions make exceptional leaders like Hitler, that is why democracy is important. Not direct democracy though but democracy based on certain rules because at any one time, a majority can actually be a retarded bunch (like electing GW TWICE, well representative or elective democracy can't fix stupidity of the masses all of the time) but it's better than any tried alternative.

Majority wins and in some cases plurality wins and if we are stupid fear will...
A democracy must always recognize the minority but especially recognize certain fundamental rights that all humans - even the ones who evolve based on emotion - have... Simply stated by some bit of paper... Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness... which are self evident! Em are God given if God is God and Nature given If he ain't. Who defines Pursuit of Happiness? My take is; any pursuit that does not injure another is fine to pursue. My God said so... and he said he'll judge whether or not it was good... he didn't say the pope will or Cesar or Little Georgie Two Faces... It is all between he and me...
Now then, if Moonbeam wants to love a Solar Flare who are we to say no way?... We are not Moonbeam's judge nor does he need us to determine if he's a good beam or not... that is up to the God of Light...

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Majority wins and in some cases plurality wins and if we are stupid fear will...
A democracy must always recognize the minority but especially recognize certain fundamental rights that all humans - even the ones who evolve based on emotion - have... Simply stated by some bit of paper... Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness... which are self evident! Em are God given if God is God and Nature given If he ain't. Who defines Pursuit of Happiness? My take is; any pursuit that does not injure another is fine to pursue. My God said so... and he said he'll judge whether or not it was good... he didn't say the pope will or Cesar or Little Georgie Two Faces... It is all between he and me...
Now then, if Moonbeam wants to love a Solar Flare who are we to say no way?... We are not Moonbeam's judge nor does he need us to determine if he's a good beam or not... that is up to the God of Light...

Ahhh. almost a Carlin quote, i don't know if you've seen it but go search on youtube for carlin and sun worship... then look at unrehearsed interviews, at his age he's more coherent than any state leader i have ever seen...

I don't think i get you point except that you think those three things should be the definition of freedom? If so, then i completely agree.

These were the three keys to Frances constitution that you modeled your constitution upon and also the three keys that most of Europe have modeled their constitutions upon, the only real notable exception is Serbia who cling to orthodox slavism as the purebreads in their nation.

I did my best there, but you can't cure stupidity.

 

[LunarRay]

I don't think i get you point except that you think those three things should be the definition of freedom? If so, then i completely agree.

Those three things are the reason we broke away and Declared why... Declaration of Independence.. Freedom... yes... we are all Free people so long as the powerful do not seek to deny it to us.

I'll look up Carlin's thingi... His humor is a tad bit vulgar for me but the underlying points he makes are valid..

EDIT: I read that bit.. funny and true from a perspective.. Joe Pesci... hehehehehehhe

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Those three things are the reason we broke away and Declared why... Declaration of Independence..

I'll look up Carlin's thingi... His humor is a tad bit vulgar for me but the underlying points he makes are valid..

Well, too bad, we had those before you anyway.

I'm not sure that Carlin was a good man, but as you said, he could make a great point through humour, i think you'd want to search for "Carlin +Religion".

I'm just thinking, if you think HE is vulgar, then what mustn't you think of me? Of course, knowing what i do, i suppose you'd give me a bit of a slack just because.

 

[LunarRay]

Well, too bad, we had those before you anyway. I'm not sure that Carlin was a good man, but as you said, he could make a great point through humour, i think you'd want to search for "Carlin +Religion". I'm just thinking, if you think HE is vulgar, then what mustn't you think of me? Of course, knowing what i do, i suppose you'd give me a bit of a slack just because.

Ole John Boy in 1215? ... or when Chucky son of Jimmy lost his head? or is it all about that mind set that says or screams... I'm Free and dam apt to stay that way by the grace of God and the man I am.... Someone should have said that... Maybe Billy up in Scotland.. to LongShanks...

Moonbeam is about the most vulgar person I know but he's my friend as are you... Carlin I don't know but suspect we could dialog for hours... You should hear him curse on Ventrilo playing WoW... omg... if someone gets to an ore vein before him... it takes hours for him to calm down.. hehehehe

The OP's thread is to do with a kid... I remember being one of those once and I knew stuff then... maybe just how it made me feel or maybe a bit more.. but I had opinions at ten... they ain't changed either by and large.. ehhehehe

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Ole John Boy in 1215? ... or when Chucky son of Jimmy lost his head? or is it all about that mind set that says or screams... I'm Free and dam apt to stay that way by the grace of God and the man I am.... Someone should have said that... Maybe Billy up in Scotland.. to LongShanks...

Moonbeam is about the most vulgar person I know but he's my friend as are you... Carlin I don't know but suspect we could dialog for hours... You should hear him curse on Ventrilo playing WoW... omg... if someone gets to an ore vein before him... it takes hours for him to calm down.. hehehehe

The OP's thread is to do with a kid... I remember being one of those once and I knew stuff then... maybe just how it made me feel or maybe a bit more.. but I had opinions at ten... they ain't changed either by and large.. ehhehehe

It's pretty much around that age you reject and find out for yourself, you become who you want to be...

Obviously this kid wants to fight for what is right, isn't THAT un-American of him, eh DoubleTwat?

 

[LunarRay]

It's pretty much around that age you reject and find out for yourself, you become who you want to be... Obviously this kid wants to fight for what is right, isn't THAT un-American of him, eh DoubleTwat?

Apparently it is Un-American or so I'm learning here and there.. ehhehehe... I guess folks forget what they used to think when they were 10ish... or perhaps they learned its best not to think at all.. just grab the tail in front to where ever it goes... someone is leading the herd.. they know what is best... and around and around they go... every twice in awhile you see blinders put on the ones who notice they've past that same spot a number of times... and once in awhile you see one just sit down and say... "What the heck... are you nuts?" Them are the ones they give Ritalin to... heheheheh obviously not well in the head...
I think it is real easy for a 10 yr old to know what it is like when someone steps on another's toes if that kid had someone step on theirs... could be anything really... like kids laughing at the clothes poor kids have to wear versus the rich kids... or any kind of inequality... Being a very poor Irish Catholic kid amongst the rich elite kids sears memories that are very much related to the unequal rights we seem to enjoy inflicting.

 

[Fox5]

It's not about any one person, it's pretty much a proven fact that kids get their ideology from their parents. If you look at a regression analysis of where partisanship comes from, by FAR the single largest influence is the ideology of the child's parents.

I'm the complete opposite of my parents on most issues and just about always have been.

Had the Internet since I was 9 or 10, and it quickly shaped my world views. Thanks for teaching me the value of reading, ma! I had, independent of my parents, decided I was an atheist by the time I was 14. Relatively independent of the Internet as well, it was more the observance of continued moral failures of the world and a somewhat logical (for a young teen) approach to philosophy. But I also had a beard when I was 12 (had to start shaving daily), so I was probably an early bloomer in all aspects.
Of course, my one example may not happen often, but kids don't always get their ideology from their parents.


Boy was my Fox news Republican dad surprised when his young son started mouthing off about genocides, unfair treatment of the working class, the necessity of charity to the poor, the unacceptability of solving problems with violence, and so forth. However, he was not surprised by all the porn I found.

 

[BassBomb]

is he like the guy who tries to stop people from speeding? lol

 

[fskimospy]

I'm the complete opposite of my parents on most issues and just about always have been.

Had the Internet since I was 9 or 10, and it quickly shaped my world views. Thanks for teaching me the value of reading, ma! I had, independent of my parents, decided I was an atheist by the time I was 14. Relatively independent of the Internet as well, it was more the observance of continued moral failures of the world and a somewhat logical (for a young teen) approach to philosophy. But I also had a beard when I was 12 (had to start shaving daily), so I was probably an early bloomer in all aspects.
Of course, my one example may not happen often, but kids don't always get their ideology from their parents.


Boy was my Fox news Republican dad surprised when his young son started mouthing off about genocides, unfair treatment of the working class, the necessity of charity to the poor, the unacceptability of solving problems with violence, and so forth. However, he was not surprised by all the porn I found.

I know that kids don't always get their ideology from their parents, I said so explicitly in my previous posts. While your mileage may vary, when we are talking about society as a whole it is about as close to a proven fact as you get in social science. I would also wager that you share more ideology with your parents than you might think as people tend to focus on the things they disagree with and forget the large amount of things that they do.

Kids rebel from their parents all the time, but you guys really don't have to take my word for this. There has been a LOT of research done on partisan ID transmission over the years.

 

[shadow9d9]

Sure he came to this conclusion on his own lol

Surely the parents had little influence on him

No one could ever think that everyone should have equal rights without their parents.... hmm...

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

We are all made the same, through evolution, all equal as we are and forever in every way.

That is the beauty of evoloution, you don't need a belief, it just is and it's been ticking along for billions of years without interference and it's still ticking on today.

So perhaps our children are a bit smarter than we are... perhaps their children are a bit smarter than our children were?

Perhaps even you and me know better than our inhereted ideologies, or even taught ideologies?

I'd like to think that is the way it works.

Don't fool yourself...evolution does not preclude the existence of a Creator.

 

[shadow9d9]

yep

Hmm, my parents never talked about politics and were religious, yet I never stood up for the pledge... I didn't believe in pledging my loyalty to a country every day, nor pledge something related to a god I didn't believe in....

Oh, did you read the part about how his parents weren't the one that reported it?

Typical hackery from those who think that independent thought cannot happen...