"Liberty and Justice for all" - not so, says 10yo

[bamacre]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/12/10-year-old-wont-pledge-a_n_355709.html

Ten year old kid refuses to say pledge in school because he feels homosexuals aren't treated equally by the law.

At first I wanted to just give this kid a massive thumbs-up for standing up for the rights of other people. But his story continued and he said something which reminded me of something I've been thinking about for quite some time. He was getting ridiculed by his classmates, they called him a "gay-wad" as he said.

It is often difficult to stand up for the rights of people. For him, it is difficult to stand up for the rights of homosexuals. He faces ridicule, and at his age, ridicule at school is pretty tough to handle. At one time, it was difficult to stand up for the rights of blacks, and before that, women.

I hope this 10yo continues down the same path, seeing inequalities and injustice, but from my experience, it's not an easy path. The more you learn about liberty and rights, you'll soon find out that the fight for justice and the freedom of all people is seemingly never-ending. These days, it is easier to stand up for the rights of homosexuals, just not when you're ten years old and in middle school. But what about the rights of those who wish to smoke pot? It gets a little harder. And those who wish to smoke tobacco? That's getting harder every day. But you will really feel like an outcast when you stand up for the rights of society's worst. The greedy, the racists, the idiots, those who receive no sympathy from the masses.

Nevertheless, this 10 year old kid deserves a big pat on the back. And so do his parents, for encouraging him to continue traveling down the path of righteousness, for it's a rocky one, but the only one worthy of travel.

 

[PokerGuy]

Who cares if the little whiner wants to stand up or not. Why is it even a story? He can sit down all he wants, it doesn't impact anyone, and it's within his rights to do so. He sounds like he's well on his way to becoming a lawyer -- a perfect example of why we need fewer lawyers.

 

[Genx87]

Sure he came to this conclusion on his own lol

Surely the parents had little influence on him

 

[Patranus]

Nice to see parents exploit their kid for a political agenda.

 

[bl4ckfl4g]

Do you guys not have kids or something?

 

[Brainonska511]

Who cares if the little whiner wants to stand up or not. Why is it even a story? He can sit down all he wants, it doesn't impact anyone, and it's within his rights to do so. He sounds like he's well on his way to becoming a lawyer -- a perfect example of why we need fewer lawyers.

I like how everyone likes to bitch about lawyers, but who do you go running to when the government starts infringing on your liberties, or you get charged with a crime, or you need to sue someone or are getting sued?

 

[fskimospy]

Exploit their kid how? Unless his parents told him to do that there's no exploitation at all. What the parents have done is instill their child with their values, the same thing every parent attempts to do, and he has acted upon those values. Maybe he just doesn't view the current anti-gay situation as one that involves 'liberty and justice for all'.

 

[dmcowen674]

Exploit their kid how? Unless his parents told him to do that there's no exploitation at all. What the parents have done is instill their child with their values, the same thing every parent attempts to do, and he has acted upon those values. Maybe he just doesn't view the current anti-gay situation as one that involves 'liberty and justice for all'.

He's 10, I doubt he came up with this on his own.

Edit: OK RTFA , the kid is ahead of his time. Good for him and bad at same time given his location.

Sucks that he is in the heart of the Bible belt.

I suspect he will probably be in the news again in the future sadly.

Good luck to him, hope nothing bad happens.

 

[PrinceofWands]

It's a tough choice, but it's AWESOME to see people making it. Kids like him are the ONLY reason civilization has come as far as it has.

I was in first or second grade when I got in trouble for leaving off 'under God' from the pledge. That was the last time I said it in school. I feel for the kid, because he's going to face hell for it for the next decade. I was constantly bullied and abused for refusing to say it. Still, it was worth it. Better to do right and face attack than be a sheep and allow evil to progress.

Big salute to him, and best luck.

 

[PrinceofWands]

He's 10, I doubt he came up with this on his own.

Not necessarily true, but very possible. Some kids do progress faster than others, and make ideological stands early...even ones contrary to the wishes of their parents and peers.

 

[bl4ckfl4g]

I have kids and they have wildly different opinions than I do on a few things. When I was a child...I thought the opposite of my parents about many things.

Do you guys think children are incapable of their own thoughts because you were weak as children or because your children are weak?

 

[fskimospy]

I have kids and they have wildly different opinions than I do on a few things. When I was a child...I thought the opposite of my parents about many things.

Do you guys think children are incapable of their own thoughts because you were weak as children or because your children are weak?

It's not about any one person, it's pretty much a proven fact that kids get their ideology from their parents. If you look at a regression analysis of where partisanship comes from, by FAR the single largest influence is the ideology of the child's parents.

 

[PrinceofWands]

It's not about any one person, it's pretty much a proven fact that kids get their ideology from their parents. If you look at a regression analysis of where partisanship comes from, by FAR the single largest influence is the ideology of the child's parents.

Um, total BS. Like complete, utter, 100%, BS.

While there is a fairly high correlation in many areas, you can't blanket claim all ideology comes from parents/environment.

Broad cultural factors have always had impact, and now in the modern communication age it's vastly increased. Kids are exceptionally susceptible to impact from peers, and now those peers are anyone with online access.

More TV means more impact from media than in previous years, and media is certainly anchored in ideological biases.

Never mind the natural tendency for kids to rebel against parents by purposefully seeking out contrary ideologies and causes.

I don't know if I know a single person who shares ideology with their parents, and I'm 37 so my generation didn't have the saturation of other factors that younger people have.

 

[fskimospy]

Um, total BS. Like complete, utter, 100%, BS.

While there is a fairly high correlation in many areas, you can't blanket claim all ideology comes from parents/environment.

Broad cultural factors have always had impact, and now in the modern communication age it's vastly increased. Kids are exceptionally susceptible to impact from peers, and now those peers are anyone with online access.

More TV means more impact from media than in previous years, and media is certainly anchored in ideological biases.

Never mind the natural tendency for kids to rebel against parents by purposefully seeking out contrary ideologies and causes.

I don't know if I know a single person who shares ideology with their parents, and I'm 37 so my generation didn't have the saturation of other factors that younger people have.

I'm sorry but you are simply wrong. I study political science and while this isn't poli sci 101, it's probably poli sci 102.

To begin with, I never said that ALL ideology came from parents. What I said was that the strongest influence on a child's ideology was the ideology of the parents. If you are interested in the topic there is reams of research on it (all pointing to the strong connection between the two). In fact now there is research that points to not only the socialization effects of parents, but other more recent ones cite a genetic link. The real argument is not if there is a link between parent/child partisan ID, but what causes that link.

For a paper that takes the socialization tack:
http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/2/1/3/0/0/p213002_index.html
For a paper that takes the genetic position:
http://jhfowler.ucsd.edu/heritability_of_partisan_attachment.pdf

You will notice that neither one of these papers doubt the link between parental partisanship and child partisanship, it's because it is a given.

 

[bl4ckfl4g]

Of course parents have the biggest influence but obviously not all children are stupid enough to believe everything their parents say. I wasn't. My kids don't. Many households, believe it or not, believe in teaching children to question things and do not try to break them or brainwash them into thinking any 1 way.

 

[jonks]

Studies I've seen indicate at least 2/3 of people follow their parent's religion. I don't think that's a coincidence.

 

[shira]

Sure he came to this conclusion on his own lol

Surely the parents had little influence on him

I'm sure the parents inculcated their values, just as all parents do, but before you cynically assume that Phillips was acting at his parents' behest, you really ought to read the article:

Edit: Link to the original article: http://www.arktimes.com/articles/articleviewer.aspx?ArticleID=2f5d7a3b-c72a-446b-8d20-3823aa79c021

Will's family has a number of gay friends. In recent years, Laura Phillips said, they've been trying to be a straight ally to the gay community, going to the pride parades and standing up for the rights of their gay and lesbian neighbors. They've been especially dismayed by the effort to take away the rights of homosexuals – the right to marry, and the right to adopt. Given that, Will immediately saw a problem with the pledge of allegiance.

After asking his parents whether it was against the law not to stand for the pledge, Will decided to do something. On Monday, Oct. 5, when the other kids in his class stood up to recite the pledge of allegiance, he remained sitting down. The class had a substitute teacher that week, a retired educator from the district, who knew Will's mother and grandmother. Though the substitute tried to make him stand up, he respectfully refused. He did it again the next day, and the next day. Each day, the substitute got a little more cross with him. On Thursday, it finally came to a head. The teacher, Will said, told him that she knew his mother and grandmother, and they would want him to stand and say the pledge.
.
.
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Given that his protest is over the rights of gays and lesbians, the taunts have taken a predictable bent. “In the lunchroom and in the hallway, they've been making comments and doing pranks, and calling me gay,” he said. “It's always the same people, walking up and calling me a gaywad.”

1) It appears Phillips's decision about the pledge was on his own initiative, not that of his parents, although his attitudes towards gays were undoubtedly inculcated by his parents.

2) The substitute teacher should be informed that children are free to NOT recite the pledge.

3) The school should inform students and parents that taunts and insults against Phillips will not be tolerated, and that they'll be suspended if they don't respect his right to not recite the pledge.

 

[CitizenKain]

Who cares if the little whiner wants to stand up or not. Why is it even a story? He can sit down all he wants, it doesn't impact anyone, and it's within his rights to do so. He sounds like he's well on his way to becoming a lawyer -- a perfect example of why we need fewer lawyers.

Standing up for other is the perfect example of why we need less lawyers..wait what.

 

[sandorski]

Reading this thread reminds me of a Gilligan's Island episode. After the initial knee-jerking I kept thinking to myself: Black is right, esk is right, prince is right, black is right, esk is right...etc etc

A 10 year old kid can and usually does have many ideas that they have derived both on their Own and from their Parents, Friends, or other sources. They often have a naive view of things, but are around the age when they are becoming rather Certain about things.

Did this Kids Parents put the Kid up to it? I dunno, could be, it's possible, but it is not necessarily required for a 10 year old.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Who cares if the little whiner wants to stand up or not. Why is it even a story? He can sit down all he wants, it doesn't impact anyone, and it's within his rights to do so. He sounds like he's well on his way to becoming a lawyer -- a perfect example of why we need fewer lawyers.

Because he has guts to stand up and take the idiocy from kids as indocrinated and disturbed as the likes of you and your children.

Truth is, he's right and makes more sense than most grown men on this forum.

Equality is in the constitution, of course, people like you piss on the constitution when it's not in your favor... after all, it's just a goddamn piece of paper - GW Bush

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Sure he came to this conclusion on his own lol

Surely the parents had little influence on him

That everyone is born equal and remains equal?

Only a child can fully understand that.

 

[bl4ckfl4g]

Reading this thread reminds me of a Gilligan's Island episode. After the initial knee-jerking I kept thinking to myself: Black is right, esk is right, prince is right, black is right, esk is right...etc etc

A 10 year old kid can and usually does have many ideas that they have derived both on their Own and from their Parents, Friends, or other sources. They often have a naive view of things, but are around the age when they are becoming rather Certain about things.

Did this Kids Parents put the Kid up to it? I dunno, could be, it's possible, but it is not necessarily required for a 10 year old.

Yeah I think you are right and my only point is that it is certainly possible and not all that uncommon for a 10 year olfd child to form opinions contrary to his parents.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

yeah i think you are right and my only point is that it is certainly possible and not all that uncommon for a 10 year olfd child to form opinions contrary to his parents.

rise above!

 

[bl4ckfl4g]

rise above!

Exactly

 

[Jaskalas]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/12/10-year-old-wont-pledge-a_n_355709.html

Ten year old kid refuses to say pledge in school because he feels homosexuals aren't treated equally by the law.

Where does the law not treat them equally? Everyone is able to marry the opposite sex. Always have been.