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Libertarians

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For context and to help people identify a Libertarian......


This is NOT a fucking libertarian.


Rand Paul: 'We deserve to know' identity of Trump whistleblower


Much like how the Democrats claim to be liberal but really arent liberal, and Republicans claim to be conservative but really arent conservative, theres also a shitload of people claiming to be Libertarians just for the sake of being different and not actually Libertarians.

Unrelated: The vast majority of people claiming to be Christians are absolutely nothing like Christ. In fact if they saw him in the streets they'd probably call the cops on him.
 
Aren't most American libertarians (i.e., Libertarian Right) just people who mostly gaslight for the Koch brothers and other fascists? As I understand it the movement is mostly funded by far right industrialists who actually want a fascistic system, so American libertarians only talk about government overreach done in the name of left-wing causes, but are completely silent when it comes to big government in the name of the right wing or causes of the religious right.

There's a reason why there's a libertarian to alt-right pipeline on the right, guys like Richard Spencer go from being libertarian to nationalist-fascist, the same for the rest of the libertarian right and the Freedom Caucus in Congress--libertarian when there's a Democrat in the White House, fascist when there's a Republican in the White House. To me this is being 100% consistent ideologically--the ideology of doing whatever your funders tell you to do.

However right libertarianism has completely destroyed the libertarian name in the U.S., especially for those on the libertarian left.
 
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Yeah that is more of an anarchist than just libertarian. Most libertarians these days are just conservatives that are fed up with GOP warmongering. I've even seen libertarians arguing against abortion ffs, lots of them. Basically it's just an excuse to shit on any part of government they disagree with, but that logic flies right out the window when it comes to people doing things they don't agree with.

That sounds like Paleocons confusing themselves as libertarians.
 
For context and to help people identify a Libertarian......


This is NOT a fucking libertarian.


Rand Paul: 'We deserve to know' identity of Trump whistleblower

I love this guy

 
Aren't most American libertarians (i.e., Libertarian Right) just people who mostly gaslight for the Koch brothers and other fascists? As I understand it the movement is mostly funded by far right industrialists who actually want a fascistic system, so American libertarians only talk about government overreach done in the name of left-wing causes, but are completely silent when it comes to big government in the name of the right wing or causes of the religious right.

There's a reason why there's a libertarian to alt-right pipeline on the right, guys like Richard Spencer go from being libertarian to nationalist-fascist, the same for the rest of the libertarian right and the Freedom Caucus in Congress--libertarian when there's a Democrat in the White House, fascist when there's a Republican in the White House. To me this is being 100% consistent ideologically--the ideology of doing whatever your funders tell you to do.

However right libertarianism has completely destroyed the libertarian name in the U.S., especially for those on the libertarian left.


I don't think that's _always_ the case. The Koch-funded, libertarian-leaning, Cato Institute, for example, clearly does differ from the Trump line on immigration and trade wars.

A lot of alleged 'libertarians' are indeed libertarians-of-convenience, but there is still a real difference between most libertarians and paleo-cons. However I don't agree with the 'real' libertarians either.

I do find myself feeling different degrees of enmity or tolerance of those two factions depending on the topic under discussion. I mean, paleo-cons do at least tend to acknowledge that there is such a thing as society and that not all human values can be represented in terms of contracts and market relationships. Conversely, libertarians tend not to be religious social conservatives.

And as for the 'libertarian left', I think that ship sailed a long time ago. The word has been fully appropriated by the right at this point (though that clearly began in the US, and I don't know how the terminology is percieved outside the English-speaking world)
 
Much like how the Democrats claim to be liberal but really arent liberal, and Republicans claim to be conservative but really arent conservative, theres also a shitload of people claiming to be Libertarians just for the sake of being different and not actually Libertarians.

Unrelated: The vast majority of people claiming to be Christians are absolutely nothing like Christ. In fact if they saw him in the streets they'd probably call the cops on him.


Most of the mainstream Democrats are indisputably liberal. Hell, libertarians are liberal. The only significant non-liberals in the US are the ultra-conservative religious right (which is a large group) and a very small number of actual full-on leftists.

People misuse the word 'liberal' and underestimate how broad a category it is (in particular missing that it's very roughly divded between welfare-liberals and classical-liberals).
 
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For context and to help people identify a Libertarian......


This is NOT a fucking libertarian.


Rand Paul: 'We deserve to know' identity of Trump whistleblower


That’s a Cuck

Funny how the deplorables were using Cuck a lot and it appears vast majority of cucks are people they previously voted for.
 
For context and to help people identify a Libertarian......


This is NOT a fucking libertarian.


Rand Paul: 'We deserve to know' identity of Trump whistleblower


Rand's libertarianism is entirely performative. It's more a character than an actual ideology for him.
 
I was going to post to this thread earlier, got distracted, and now I'm back.

I think these discussions exist on a level of generalization about ideologies. Ideologies are the refuge of lazy minds.

For instance, encountering someone whose education was in a technical or medical specialization, the political discussion might invite me to suggest that if the other person was inclined to read Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations", then he should also read Marx's "Das Kapital". The reaction I obtain more than likely will be "No! No!" It is as though there is a category of "bad books" and you shouldn't read any of these bad books. I might must as easily have said to a person with a slightly different political orientation that if he were inclined to read Marx, he should also read Smith.

The only book with a monopoly on the Truth is the single book whose adherents merely believe has a monopoly on the Truth, and for which there are so many different "interpretations" that a bystander is left clueless as to exactly what is True and what isn't.

If you want to believe in something pertaining to the real world, you can believe in the Scientific Method, Common Sense and the Constitution.

And there are several fallacies floating around in our discourse, often barely mentioned where they need to be identified as such. Among these is the fallacy of infinite Freedom. That is, government should always incline to expand Freedom to an infinite degree for even the sparsest number of individuals capable of exercising it. But we all know this is false.

I suggest -- in discussion of government governed by Common Sense and the Constitution -- that we proceed with a notion that there are "Pure Public Goods" best provided collectively and indivisibly, and there are "Private Goods" such as your grocery list or your automobile. Some goods provided more predominately in a private market place have extensive collective aspects, such as the pooled risk of insurance, and there are policy implications for moving society from a point A to a point B in which the status quo becomes a practical consideration in how such movement is to be achieved.

Now within these scenarios, we have various toolboxes for addressing well-defined problems, and these toolboxes are often presented as ideological constructs. The choice of the one right tool for a particular problem should not be barred because someone else made an inferential leap of logic to conclude that we're on the road of "creeping socialism" or "creeping fascism". There are other moral restraints that make these doomsday scenarios less likely.

They only become more likely when someone chooses a Utopian overthrow on a broad level of government institutions born of blood, sweat and tears over a century. When you hear a politician like Sarah Palin whine about "Incrementalism", she is complaining about the very foundation of our government and the Founders' intentions for the Constitution. There was always supposed to be gridlock, and there was always supposed to be compromise.

So when I see someone like Rand Paul writing another screed about the evils of Socialism, my first reaction would be "stop wasting your time in the book-publishing industry, and get back to the work which you were elected to do."
 
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