Liberals want to abolish the senate now.

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Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
7,547
4,505
136
I celebrate Trump winning in our democratic process. You are the ones that want to use impeachment as a political tool for not getting your way, not it's real purpose... speaking of ending that pesky democracy thing.
But you purposefully look the other way while Trump tries to override the checks and balances of democracy, while Republicans gerrymander districts and otherwise try to disenfranchise voters, while the head of the Senate obstructs bills intended to protect the integrity of elections. You hate democracy, you shit on it at every opportunity.

Also, whatever the Dems' motivations, you do know that Bill Clinton was impeached for considerably less than what Trump has done (such as repeatedly lying, firing people for investigating him and violating the emoluments clause), right? That in previous administrations there would be outrage if the President had done even a fraction of what Trump has done? Impeachment in this case isn't anti-democratic, it's a return to a functioning democracy where accountability matters.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
994
126
But you purposefully look the other way while Trump tries to override the checks and balances of democracy, while Republicans gerrymander districts and otherwise try to disenfranchise voters, while the head of the Senate obstructs bills intended to protect the integrity of elections. You hate democracy, you shit on it at every opportunity.

Also, whatever the Dems' motivations, you do know that Bill Clinton was impeached for considerably less than what Trump has done (such as repeatedly lying, firing people for investigating him and violating the emoluments clause), right? That in previous administrations there would be outrage if the President had done even a fraction of what Trump has done? Impeachment in this case isn't anti-democratic, it's a return to a functioning democracy where accountability matters.

I think he's working within the legal framework allowed, and if he does overstep our system offers checks for that.

I think the impeachment of Slick Willy was largely political in nature, more about optics for the next election and the Republicans getting a "W" than anyone really caring that he had inappropriate relations outside his marriage. I think if it had happened today things would have been worse for him, being the me too era and all.

I see the investigation of Trump much the same today. Today the left cannot understand or handle a guy like Trump in office and they are in full fear mode.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
59,697
11,670
126
I think he's working within the legal framework allowed, and if he does overstep our system offers checks for that.

I think the impeachment of Slick Willy was largely political in nature, more about optics for the next election and the Republicans getting a "W" than anyone really caring that he had inappropriate relations outside his marriage. I think if it had happened today things would have been worse for him, being the me too era and all.

I see the investigation of Trump much the same today. Today the left cannot understand or handle a guy like Trump in office and they are in full fear mode.
And now, derailing his own thread...
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
68,443
16,191
136
But you purposefully look the other way while Trump tries to override the checks and balances of democracy, while Republicans gerrymander districts and otherwise try to disenfranchise voters, while the head of the Senate obstructs bills intended to protect the integrity of elections. You hate democracy, you shit on it at every opportunity.

Also, whatever the Dems' motivations, you do know that Bill Clinton was impeached for considerably less than what Trump has done (such as repeatedly lying, firing people for investigating him and violating the emoluments clause), right? That in previous administrations there would be outrage if the President had done even a fraction of what Trump has done? Impeachment in this case isn't anti-democratic, it's a return to a functioning democracy where accountability matters.
I mean let's not forget that Mueller identified what appears to be at least around 6 felonies Trump committed using the powers of his office related to the Russia investigation alone.

Regardless though yes, Republicans have fulfilled David Frum's prediction which was that if they found they could not enact their agenda through democratic means they would not abandon their agenda, they would abandon democracy.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,652
4,065
126
I don't see it as a good idea, just like I don't see getting rid of the electoral college as such. I think both serve an important purpose. Having a house and senate gives us the best of both worlds and gives value to having a larger population as well as protects small states from effectively having no say.
Having the Senate as it is is the most important thing we can do. We can have anything Mitch and Trump want. How splendid!

Congress, as it exists, needs to be abolished and rebuilt from the foundations up. Some method which permits the required functional capabilities from both the House and Senate could be had.

First thing? No political parties in Congress. None. That would be zero. Instead, all Federal elections would have candidates which have a minimum number of signatures validated and yes this means voter ID's suck it up. These would be provided at no cost when there is sufficient documentation such as required for passports. Funding would be made available with no possible circumvention and that stated in the Amendment. This also would curtail freedom of speech as the courts have defined it. People may say what they please, but money is no longer speech. Want to contribute a dollar or the maximum amount? Feel free but it goes into a pot and divided among candidates. Conspiring to subvert a clearly stated intent would result in minimum mandatory sentences of not just individuals but corporate leaders. They are on the hook, no bankruptcy, no "corporations are people" for this purpose. No pacs, no dark monies, nothing at all and a mandate for all of this in legalization. Officeholders who directly support or permit such things are barred for life from office. If campaigns act in this way and decide that plausible deniability is good enough? The candidate is barred for 4 years from any federal office or position.

The way the rules work must change. No "winner take all" as there are no parties, remember? Instead, the whole body decides on new ways of determining rules and oh, no current officeholder or party official is eligible to weigh in at all. Tampering is a felony in the first degree and there are no closed-door sessions. They will go to prison and the power to pardon changed and limited as well.

No person holding Federal office may lobby for pay or otherwise. Not one cent, nor may they gain employment for themselves or immediate family member in any company or interest for which they played advocate.

There will be a proportionate representation. However many are elected from each state will be from among the top winners in the election. If ten people represent a state then the top ten hold office. Anyone who accepts any compensation greater than a once per year donation in any form greater that has a real market value greater than $100 but less than $500 once per year will be censured. From $500 to $1000 or a second lesser offense, sanctioned and removed from any committee for a period of one year. For a third offense of the least infringement, a second of the $500 to $1000 or any of greater than $1000 will be subject to the following- a fine of not less than 10k and not more than 100K, payable immediately upon being found guilty.

A two term limit.

Lots and lots more including a muzzle on the Oval Office.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,652
4,065
126
I celebrate Trump winning in our democratic process. You are the ones that want to use impeachment as a political tool for not getting your way, not it's real purpose... speaking of ending that pesky democracy thing.
Trump committed crimes of obstruction per the Mueller report. Yes, he did and if he said as much that means there is evidence. That Trump was considered to be on a higher level than the rest of us vermin (including you) in terms of accountability changes none of that. Your Russian aided criminal in office. My what a fine example of the Democratic process /s
 
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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
33,232
6,307
126
I celebrate Trump winning in our democratic process. You are the ones that want to use impeachment as a political tool for not getting your way, not it's real purpose... speaking of ending that pesky democracy thing.
The EC is inherently undemocratic and impeachment explicitly political.

Did you just eat too many pencil shavings in school or something?
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,388
1,011
126
Political article claims the Senate protects minority interests. How is stealing a SC nominee from Obama accomplishing that?
I presume the second question is rhetorical since the answer is self-obvious.
 

sportage

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2008
8,301
830
126
It has become quite apparent that the left is NOT interested in a the protection of rights or keeping the system of government we have had in place for centuries, but to do away with anything that might stand in the way of their power and control.
You're kidding, right?
I believe we have witnessed a systematic process by THE REPUBLICANS to derail our "system of government we have had in place for centuries".
So, where have you been?
Guess we need a little reminder here...
It was MOSCOW MITCH that perverted the laws of government and THE US CONSTITUTION to deny Obama his US Supreme Court justice.
And it was Donald Trump that began the systematic dissembling of our American institutions. And that continues to this day.
So.... if you are really concerned about the "system of government we have had in place for centuries", then me thinketh you are barking up the wrong tree.
And for gods sake, stop watching Fox News. You're never gonna find the truth THERE. :rolleyes:
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
10,958
846
126
I think he's working within the legal framework allowed, and if he does overstep our system offers checks for that.
That clearly isn't the case any more. He is an unindicted co-conspiritor for the campaign finance violations, and there is evidence he obstructed justice, but the GOP refuses to do anything about it. Basically he can't (or won't) be charged with any crime while he is president, despite him committing several.

What does "overstep" mean to you?
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
994
126
You're kidding, right?
I believe we have witnessed a systematic process by THE REPUBLICANS to derail our "system of government we have had in place for centuries".
So, where have you been?
Guess we need a little reminder here...
It was MOSCOW MITCH that perverted the laws of government and THE US CONSTITUTION to deny Obama his US Supreme Court justice.
And it was Donald Trump that began the systematic dissembling of our American institutions. And that continues to this day.
So.... if you are really concerned about the "system of government we have had in place for centuries", then me thinketh you are barking up the wrong tree.
And for gods sake, stop watching Fox News. You're never gonna find the truth THERE. :rolleyes:

All a bunch of unsubstantiated leftist dreams. The only issue I have with Republicans that comes immediately to mind, when it comes to twisting our system to their favor, is gerrymandering. But, that truly is a "both sides" thing to me. Though I've seen more questionable examples from the GOP's doing, personally. That being said, it doesn't appear to be anything on the scale of the political witch hunts against Trump the left have generated. And then stories like the OP, keep adjusting the system until you get what you want, that's democracy!
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,101
11,715
136
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/08/30/abolish-the-senate-its-the-only-way-to-rein-in-modern-presidents/

https://www.vox.com/2018/12/4/18125539/john-dingell-abolish-senate

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/07/24/democrats-senate-constitution-219033

https://www.gq.com/story/the-case-for-abolishing-the-senate


A few different stories / editorials on the subject. It has become quite apparent that the left is NOT interested in a the protection of rights or keeping the system of government we have had in place for centuries, but to do away with anything that might stand in the way of their power and control. We have both a House of Reps (number of votes based on state population) and a Senate (all states get an equal say regardless of population). Much like the electoral college this helps buffer things from flavor of the day ideas changing our laws and norms willy nilly and any one state becoming too powerful. But, the means justify the ends, anything they can do to to force people into their way, they are for. Liberals laugh at Trump for exploring buying Greenland while they're talking about abolishing the Senate. Today's radical left for you.
propaganda parrot is boring

1566247259635.png
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
15,817
4,292
136
Repair or replace, that's what you do with something that is broken. Republicans broke it, don't seem interested in getting it fixed. Let's hope their efforts to cheat and suppress voting don't bear fruit as they have in the past.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
13,073
3,686
136
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/08/30/abolish-the-senate-its-the-only-way-to-rein-in-modern-presidents/

https://www.vox.com/2018/12/4/18125539/john-dingell-abolish-senate

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/07/24/democrats-senate-constitution-219033

https://www.gq.com/story/the-case-for-abolishing-the-senate


A few different stories / editorials on the subject. It has become quite apparent that the left is NOT interested in a the protection of rights or keeping the system of government we have had in place for centuries, but to do away with anything that might stand in the way of their power and control. We have both a House of Reps (number of votes based on state population) and a Senate (all states get an equal say regardless of population). Much like the electoral college this helps buffer things from flavor of the day ideas changing our laws and norms willy nilly and any one state becoming too powerful. But, the means justify the ends, anything they can do to to force people into their way, they are for. Liberals laugh at Trump for exploring buying Greenland while they're talking about abolishing the Senate. Today's radical left for you.
The Senate is only a problem cause its being run by a Moscow bought GOP .. you know in particular Moscow Mitch is at fault here. What are you gonna do when one third, strike that, two third of your government branches are in Moscows pocket?
Watch this and tell me Trump is not ready to sell it all out to Putin. Indecently, you know that man crush you have on Trump, Trump has that same man crush on Putin. Tell me Slow, would you rather be a Russian?

 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,329
4,019
126
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,460
1,562
96
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
So what is the current name of the State of Russia? I keep forgetting
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,460
1,562
96
Oh it has 88 different names (states) because:
a) 88 guarantees a R win forever
b) the number 88 has significance to White Power dumb-dumbs
Ha ha, what the entire nation itself referred to as? Commonwealth of Interdependent States?
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
4,089
2,971
136
That liberal Mitch McConnell has, for all intensive purposes "abolished" the Senate
 

IJTSSG

Golden Member
Aug 12, 2014
1,083
256
136
This is pretty typical loser strategy. If you can't win, whine bitch, cry, try to change the rules and accuse the other team of cheating. End of the day, you're still a loser.

It's too bad we can't give liberals their own political process, kind of like the special olympics although the democrat presidential primary is getting really close.
 

zzyzxroad

Golden Member
Jan 29, 2017
1,915
1,023
106
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/08/30/abolish-the-senate-its-the-only-way-to-rein-in-modern-presidents/

https://www.vox.com/2018/12/4/18125539/john-dingell-abolish-senate

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/07/24/democrats-senate-constitution-219033

https://www.gq.com/story/the-case-for-abolishing-the-senate


A few different stories / editorials on the subject. It has become quite apparent that the left is NOT interested in a the protection of rights or keeping the system of government we have had in place for centuries, but to do away with anything that might stand in the way of their power and control. We have both a House of Reps (number of votes based on state population) and a Senate (all states get an equal say regardless of population). Much like the electoral college this helps buffer things from flavor of the day ideas changing our laws and norms willy nilly and any one state becoming too powerful. But, the means justify the ends, anything they can do to to force people into their way, they are for. Liberals laugh at Trump for exploring buying Greenland while they're talking about abolishing the Senate. Today's radical left for you.
You're off your troll game today. At least find articles form this year when posting future troll threads.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
994
126
You're off your troll game today. At least find articles form this year when posting future troll threads.
I saw it mentioned in a video in my Youtube feed. I did a search and though, "holy shit, this is a thing" and posted. At least one poster here so far has said that they are on that side of the fence, getting rid of the senate. So....
 

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