Liars in Genesis: "6-7k" year-old Allosaurus

[K1052]

^ sigh

I actually had to explain to some nice French/Australian people at dinner in Paris a few months ago that something we have called a "Creation Museum" was actually a serious thing and not a joke. Fortunately there was more wine to drink.

 

[stormkroe]

Dbl post

 

[stormkroe]

Show me the "huge support" that "both have."

Oh look it's my favourite 'intellectual'. You're a big boy, I assume you can verify statements. But let's just take away my example to knock it down a few difficulty levels and answer this question:
Are there ANY peer reviewed studies that disagree with each other? Any competing theories in academia at all?
Of course there is. The next step, then, is to admit that by agreeing with one you BY DEFINITION disagree with the other. Congratulations, you now reject the scientific method according to Eskimospy's absolute statement.
It was a simple mistake in logic that I'm not really sure he meant in the way it came across, as Esky is usually farely logical.

You seem to be deaf.

Let's not start the game where you pretend(?) to be a dumbass and reject every statement without 17 references from sources you like. I'm not sure if it would be worse if you actually didn't know there are several competing and valid theories on the origin of man when you front yourself like an authority, or that you DO know it and just like to be a drama queen.
Eskimospy is quite capable of having this discussion himself, why don't you let the grownups talk mmkay?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Oh look it's my favourite 'intellectual'. You're a big boy, I assume you can verify statements.

No, I can't verify your statements, and more to the point I don't believe you can either. That's why I challenged you to support your claim, and at this point it remains unsupported.

But let's just take away my example to knock it down a few difficulty levels and answer this question:

No, let's not. You pulled a ridiculous claim out of your ass, and I want you to either substantiate it with evidence or admit you don't have the faintest idea what you're talking about.

Are there ANY peer reviewed studies that disagree with each other? Any competing theories in academia at all?
Of course there is. The next step, then, is to admit that by agreeing with one you BY DEFINITION disagree with the other.

Apples and orangutans. Rob isn't proposing any "competing theories." He is proposing ideas which explicitly reject the presuppositions of science. These are not theories, but wild flights of fancy.

Not that you would know the difference. Lucky for you, I'm here to remedy your ignorance.

{Snip}

 

[justoh]

Are there ANY peer reviewed studies that disagree with each other? Any competing theories in academia at all?
Of course there is. The next step, then, is to admit that by agreeing with one you BY DEFINITION disagree with the other.

Talk about not being in agreement... geez.

 

[coffeejunkee]

Gallop poll is scary, This is why we need to be more educated. Mind you I am not talking about religion or god I am talking about creationism/intelligent design young earth stupidity.

Well, it's only been 150 or so years. Give it some more time. There is also a small percentage left for each category (except high school, 12%) of people who think yet something else.

^ sigh

I actually had to explain to some nice French/Australian people at dinner in Paris a few months ago that something we have called a "Creation Museum" was actually a serious thing and not a joke. Fortunately there was more wine to drink.

And they received $43 million from the state. But we must stay practical, if there's a demand for it and it makes a profit, why not benefit from that?

It's also not a US thing, there's a guy in my country who build Noah's ark to exact biblical specifications and he travels around with it promoting his literal interpretation of the bible.

 

[K1052]

And they received $43 million from the state. But we must stay practical, if there's a demand for it and it makes a profit, why not benefit from that?

It's also not a US thing, there's a guy in my country who build Noah's ark to exact biblical specifications and he travels around with it promoting his literal interpretation of the bible.

Nobody is sure if it is actually profitable or not. Their annual attendance is at 250K, down from 400K when they opened a few years back. It will in time become just another curious monument to our own seemingly endless stupidity.

 

[werepossum]

I was going to post something similar to what Victorian Gray posted; religion isn't "evolving", as you're implying...the laws against mixing fabrics and dietary restrictions were removed about 2000 years ago with the death of Jesus, biblically speaking -- they were abruptly and deliberately removed, it didn't change slowly over time. The laws were literally in force one day, and removed the very next.

I can tell you that the primary reason why gays aren't killed in the US is because the law doesn't allow it. People can still be jailed and mistreated for being gay in many parts of the world, killed in some Islamic nations.

I think you don't quite understand why religion no longer prohibit the mixing of fabrics, or eating of shellfish, therefore evolution did it.

Dude, Jesus Himself said "I come not to break the law, but to complete it." Those prohibitions lasted far after Christ's ministry - in fact, when I was in school we still had fish on Fridays. (And that too demonstrates the evolution of the Church - go back and see how many meatless days were commanded in middle medieval times, the heyday of "fasting" by eating fish.) And look at our reactions to gays and gay marriage - a majority of Christians now support it, and even the Pope is refusing to condemn it. I for one certainly don't believe the primary reason Christians aren't killing gays is because it's illegal.

One of religion's societal strengths is its relative stability, but as with any other institution, it must evolve or die.

Well, it's only been 150 or so years. Give it some more time. There is also a small percentage left for each category (except high school, 12%) of people who think yet something else.

And they received $43 million from the state. But we must stay practical, if there's a demand for it and it makes a profit, why not benefit from that?

It's also not a US thing, there's a guy in my country who build Noah's ark to exact biblical specifications and he travels around with it promoting his literal interpretation of the bible.

How the hell would he travel around with it? It's far too big to trailer and designed without propulsion - unless I'm forgetting a reference to G-d's Holy Marine Diesels.

 

[Retro Rob]

Dude, Jesus Himself said "I come not to break the law, but to complete it."

Exactly! He didn't "break" the law, he died in full adherence to it, hence, completing it. Once you completely fulfill a contract, its effectively voided. This is exactly how Jesus put the law out of effect -- dying faithful to it.

Thanks for eloquently demonstrating this.

Stop insisting that religion "evolved" on this point, because it makes you appear extremely ignorant of the point you just made.

 

[Retro Rob]

...look at our reactions to gays and gay marriage - a majority of Christians now support it, and even the Pope is refusing to condemn it.

So what? Look at our reactions to racial segregation, most Christians supported it too -- even some Clergy voiced support.

Your argument is weak. Most Christians support whatever is socially acceptable at the time. They accepted the Inquisitions, witch-hunts, Crusaders, burnings at the stake, etc.

It has nothing to do with the evolution of religion -- it has everything to due with them wanting acceptance.

Mostly every Christian in the south tried to justify racism with the Bible, when racial segregation was defeated, they mostly stopped. Then, they went to the Bible to justify the mistreatment of gays. When laws started passing allowing gays to marry, guess what? They're reinterpreting the Bible.

Your argument doesn't hold weight.

 

[Victorian Gray]

So what? Look at our reactions to racial segregation, most Christians supported it too -- even some Clergy voiced support.

Your argument is weak. Most Christians support whatever is socially acceptable at the time. They accepted the Inquisitions, witch-hunts, Crusaders, burnings at the stake, etc.

It has nothing to do with the evolution of religion -- it has everything to due with them wanting acceptance.

Mostly every Christian in the south tried to justify racism with the Bible, when racial segregation was defeated, they mostly stopped. Then, they went to the Bible to justify the mistreatment of gays. When laws started passing allowing gays to marry, guess what? They're reinterpreting the Bible.

Your argument doesn't hold weight.

It appears that you don't seem to know much about the actual history of Christianity. Read a couple of decent history books on the subject. You just might be surprised at what you discover.

 

[Retro Rob]

It appears that you don't seem to know much about the actual history of Christianity. Read a couple of decent history books on the subject. You just might be surprised at what you discover.

Actually, I really like being corrected. So if I am wrong, please tell me where...seriously, and tell me why.

I will graciously retract all that I posted...

 

[Victorian Gray]

Actually, I really like being corrected. So if I am wrong, please tell me where...seriously, and tell me why.

I will graciously retract all that I posted...

Sorry, not interested enough. You've got plenty of playmates already. As I said, I suggest reading a couple of good history books if you actually care about this.

A last thought though. How many Christian sects were there 1500 years ago? How many Christian sects are there today? Does the difference tell you anything?

 

[Retro Rob]

Sorry, not interested enough.

Well, of course you're not...

 

[Victorian Gray]

Well, of course you're not...

You're so sweet sometimes.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Actually, I really like being corrected. So if I am wrong, please tell me where...seriously, and tell me why.

I will graciously retract all that I posted...

That's fucking rich.

 

[werepossum]

Sorry, not interested enough. You've got plenty of playmates already. As I said, I suggest reading a couple of good history books if you actually care about this.

A last thought though. How many Christian sects were there 1500 years ago? How many Christian sects are there today? Does the difference tell you anything?

Rush Limbaugh says something profound about this: Most people's sense of history begins with their own birth. Over such a scale it can be difficult to see evolution of anything, let alone something as slowly evolving as religion.

In reality of course, Christianity evolved nearly as much in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries as in the second and third. Unlike Islam, Christianity commonly (though not always) holds that its Bible is divinely inspired but not divinely dictated. Thus, an unwillingness to evolve one's religion equals an unwillingness to become closer to G-d's will (though of course there are no guarantees that any change is to be closer rather than farther away) and shares with Islam the conceit that G-d's will millennia ago is still G-d's will today. I certainly do not put myself forth as any sort of religious expert but I cannot imagine that the best behavior for every situation even a single millenium ago would be the best behavior for every situation today.

 

[K1052]

Rush Limbaugh says something profound about this: Most people's sense of history begins with their own birth. Over such a scale it can be difficult to see evolution of anything, let alone something as slowly evolving as religion.

Coming from a person who makes a living out of perpetuating such ignorance I find his pontificating on the matter just a tad disingenuous.

Just a tad.

 

[WHAMPOM]

The Bible as we know it, selected books out of many Holy writings of a rising new religion collected and edited by a Roman Emperor to bolster his rule. Are as true as the tales of the Odyssey, Fall of Troy, records of Atlantis, some historic accuracy with a whole lot of hype, sensationalism and hyperbole.

edit: we owe a lot to Homer? for writing down his oral history and a climate that preserved his writings.
Of course the Roman fad for Grecian literature helped. Lotta Greek slaves spent their lives as Roman scribes.