LGBT Executive Order Potentially Incoming

[blankslate]

You, sir, neglected to account for Trump Derangement Syndrome in your calculations. Fern didn't end the thread, he threw gasoline on it.

Is it really TDS?

I mean perhaps in this case... maybe

but if President Obama wanted an education secretary as religious as Mrs. Devoss then he (according to the right) would've gotten someone who wanted to have Madrassas built in the U.S.

Just a thought.

His cabinet choices imo are anything but populist atm.


_____________

 

[theeedude]

Modern day Republican party and Conservative movement for you. Bunch of dinosaurs trying to fight the big asteroid.

 

[Double Trouble]

Fern, you're starting to sound like the Texas legislature and abortion: "We can't make abortion illegal so let's just put in heinous zoning, ultrasound, credentialing and burial requirements which have the effect of banning abortion."

"We can't ban Muslims so let's just put in a bunch of heinous travel requirements on people who we think might be Muslim so that nobody will want to come here."

Are you saying it's something like "we can't make guns illegal so lets just put in heinous registration, permit requirements and massive taxes which have the effect of banning guns". Sounds very familiar. Not that the left would stoop to such a level, only the right.

Do you guys realize that these restrictions only affect a tiny small fraction of muslims, only those from a small list of dangerous places? How is that possibly considered a "muslim ban" when almost all the muslims are not impacted at all?

 

[werepossum]

Is it really TDS?

I mean perhaps in this case... maybe

but if President Obama wanted an education secretary as religious as Mrs. Devoss then he (according to the right) would've gotten someone who wanted to have Madrassas built in the U.S.

Just a thought.

His cabinet choices imo are anything but populist atm.


_____________

Agreed, they are mostly billionaire businessmen. Honestly I haven't been paying much attention - it's far more entertaining to watch the far left lose its collective mind - but it's certainly not looking good for either populism or limited government/personal liberty. In my experience, such businessmen don't want less regulation, they want regulation that they can bypass while their competition bogs down in red tape. But it's very early yet, so we'll see how it all shakes out.

 

[ivwshane]

Are you saying it's something like "we can't make guns illegal so lets just put in heinous registration, permit requirements and massive taxes which have the effect of banning guns". Sounds very familiar. Not that the left would stoop to such a level, only the right.

Do you guys realize that these restrictions only affect a tiny small fraction of muslims, only those from a small list of dangerous places? How is that possibly considered a "muslim ban" when almost all the muslims are not impacted at all?

Just because it's not a total ban doesn't mean it's not unconstitutional. Its a clear violation of the first and fourteenth amendment.

I'm not sure where you got this crazy idea from that everything is A okay because it's not a total ban.

Well I actually know where you got it from, I just didn't think anyone would be that stupid.

 

[zinfamous]

I'll repeat: It can't be a "Muslim" ban since only a small fraction of Muslims reside in the affected countries. The vast majority of Muslims (+90%) live in countries that are unaffected.

It's not a "ban" either. Merely, some countries are having more stringent vetting applied.

I've not previously heard what Giuliani said. This would be the first. In any case, what he said, assuming he did, is irrelevant because we have the facts. You can't ban "Muslims" unless you include a bunch of other countries. +90% of Muslims aren't even subject to the stricter requirements.

You people have gone around the bend.

Fern

I see, we are about to get stuck in your "I will not watch videos!" honor system or whatever you call it, and so of course you refuse to address the topic. This is very much a muslim ban in the sense that Trump is cited as having requested a "legal way to essentially effect a ban on muslims."

We are talking about the reques,t and the goal. You may call this a "terrorism ban" as the admin wants to call it. But, like you, let's look at the evidence in the field of what this order does do. It bans refugees from no country that sent terroriststo our country. It bans immigrants, none of which have any statistical reality of attacking us, ever. IT specifically opens travel between the very countries that have actually attacked us.

So, based on your argument, this order isn't even what the admin claims it is. SO, here are, Fern:

--It does not, by evidence, act within the actual terms that it addresses.
--it is intended, by claims of the one ordered to draft it through request of Trump, seek an indirect ban of muslims specifically, through legal scripting.

These are the facts we have and the argument that you make--assuming that you accept the new evidence.

 

[agent00f]

How the hell is it a "Muslim" ban/delay or whatever if 90% aren't even affected?

Do you people even realize that the vast majority of Muslims aren't from Arab countries? Or do you people automatically think "Arab" when you hear the word "Muslim"? Is the Left that ignorant?

Fern

Given the advice that Guiliani gave Trump for pandering to lackeys, it's pretty obvious which crowd automatically thinks "Arab" when they hear the word "Muslim", given the sort here always ranting about them moslems.

I'm genuinely curious if you're going to feint surprise at the obvious.

 

[Thump553]

Agreed, they are mostly billionaire businessmen. Honestly I haven't been paying much attention - it's far more entertaining to watch the far left lose its collective mind - but it's certainly not looking good for either populism or limited government/personal liberty. In my experience, such businessmen don't want less regulation, they want regulation that they can bypass while their competition bogs down in red tape. But it's very early yet, so we'll see how it all shakes out.

Honestly, I think you should really look at the appointees rather than playing the usual partisanship games. Personally I'm convinced that Trump is a grave threat to our democracy. I'm willing to give him a chance but will FACTUALLY vet (not phony alt-fact either) every decision, every policy move he makes.

My personal view on his cabinet: Basically everyone except Linda McMahon (who I voted against twice) is, at best, totally unsuited for their position at best. Maybe 20-30% would pass my personal hold your nose, they are competent enough to confirm. The vast majority of them are either piggies waiting to feed at the trough (Sec of State, his decisions on Russia will easily push him into the billionaire category) or are Johnny One Note policy wackos (like Devoss, Dept of Ed, the Congressman appointed to HSS, and Ben Carlson being appointed to anything.

A huge part of this country-and not just so-called far left-have absolutely no trust in Trump's judgment on anything-and he has done nothing that would persuade us differently. he just panders to his base over and over again.

I think this is way beyond a partisanship matter, but significantly important to the future well being of the USA.

To make this somewhat on topic, I greatly doubt Trump will issue a LGBT order, unless Pence ghost writes it for him. Trump seems to have very few core moral principals but he has always at least talked about supporting gay rights. Of the points mentioned in the OP, nearly all go way beyond the scope of an EO and would require Congressional approval. Several would also require reversal of Supreme Court decisions. Just last year the Supreme Court summarily rejected a prohibition against adoption by gays.

 

[glenn1]

To make this somewhat on topic, I greatly doubt Trump will issue a LGBT order, unless Pence ghost writes it for him. Trump seems to have very few core moral principals but he has always at least talked about supporting gay rights. Of the points mentioned in the OP, nearly all go way beyond the scope of an EO and would require Congressional approval. Several would also require reversal of Supreme Court decisions. Just last year the Supreme Court summarily rejected a prohibition against adoption by gays.

He can effectively end federal enforcement actions against those violating those laws or rulings.

 

[Victorian Gray]

You people are unhinged.

There is no "Muslim Ban". Geez, 80% of the world's Muslims aren't even Arab. And it's only a portion of the Arab countries that are undergoing the more rigorous vetting.


Fern

That's it. You just keep those eyes closed and ears plugged and all will be well.

 

[dphantom]

Hey Fern, how many times do we have to remind you guys that Giuliani confirmed this move as Trump's request for a Muslim ban?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...immigration-entry-visa-new-york-a7552751.html

His words, not ours.

What you got?

there is no muslim ban.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Are you saying it's something like "we can't make guns illegal so lets just put in heinous registration, permit requirements and massive taxes which have the effect of banning guns". Sounds very familiar. Not that the left would stoop to such a level, only the right.

Do you guys realize that these restrictions only affect a tiny small fraction of muslims, only those from a small list of dangerous places? How is that possibly considered a "muslim ban" when almost all the muslims are not impacted at all?

Wait, is this the false equivalence argument where some people point out that no one has ever advocated banning guns vs Trump actually saying he wanted to ban Muslims?

Just checking.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

there is no muslim ban.

Right, it was just a pro-christian immigration policy decision.

 

[dphantom]

Right, it was just a pro-christian immigration policy decision.

that i do not know. I did not see any such language in the EO but maybe you have inside knowledge of such?

 

[Genx87]

Tell that to the jihadists who are already using Trump's Executive Order to recruit more terrorists to kill Americans at home and abroad.

As if the bombs we have been dropping on these countries for the past 20 years hasnt been motivation enough?

 

[sportage]

LEARN FRENCH!
Canada will take in LGBT folks that seek political asylum from the land of king and emperor Donald Trump and dark lord (queue the Darth Vader music) Mike Pence.
And Canada has national healthcare!!!!
If Canada is too cold for ya, I suggest France.
France also takes in folks that seek political asylum, and France also has national healthcare too!!!!
And your new language of speaking France won't go to waste.

THINK BIG!

It's up to you.
Either wallow in the smut and filth of Trump's America, or seek political asylum in a land of the free and home of the brave.
Which damn straight will no longer be America now that the extreme religious far right loonies have taken over.
Better to cut your losses and flee now before dictator Donald swipes out that ink pen and starts signing executive actions targeting YOUR FAMILY!!!

Better to be safe than detained then jailed.
Just ask any holocaust survivor about THAT.
Oh yeah people.... YOU FUCKED UP royally.
You elected Trump and now you shall pay the price.

 

[norseamd]

So early today when DC Spice had his press conference he said this .....

https://twitter.com/hollywoodblvd1/status/826154355292135424

And then later in the afternoon White House Deputy Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham said this .....

https://twitter.com/MaryEmilyOHara/status/826193502975488006

Well either they are lying, or its been put on hold, or theres lots of confusion in the White House, or all of the above. Even if it has been shelved at this current time, that is no indication that it wont happen, since Trump often makes decisions randomly on a spur of the moment, often without consulting many of those around him.

 

[baydude]

Disgusting how they photoshopped this pic to make it seem like LGBT are for Trump

 

[compuwiz1]

Disgusting how they photoshopped this pic to make it seem like LGBT are for Trump

That wasn't a photo shop. I was watching the event when he was given and held it up. Nice try at the lie. Proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1nJ5JwLdU4

 

[brycejones]

That wasn't a photo shop. I was watching the event when he was given and held it up.

I'm not sure we can trust your memory anymore...

Some person handing him a flag with really crappy writing on it doesn't prove a whole lot. But given some of his previous statements on the subject I'm waiting to see what he actually does if anything.

 

[MrSquished]

LEARN FRENCH!
Canada will take in LGBT folks that seek political asylum from the land of king and emperor Donald Trump and dark lord (queue the Darth Vader music) Mike Pence.
And Canada has national healthcare!!!!
If Canada is too cold for ya, I suggest France.
France also takes in folks that seek political asylum, and France also has national healthcare too!!!!
And your new language of speaking France won't go to waste.

THINK BIG!

It's up to you.
Either wallow in the smut and filth of Trump's America, or seek political asylum in a land of the free and home of the brave.
Which damn straight will no longer be America now that the extreme religious far right loonies have taken over.
Better to cut your losses and flee now before dictator Donald swipes out that ink pen and starts signing executive actions targeting YOUR FAMILY!!!

Better to be safe than detained then jailed.
Just ask any holocaust survivor about THAT.
Oh yeah people.... YOU FUCKED UP royally.
You elected Trump and now you shall pay the price.

I'm straight so I'm fine. But I have EU citzenship if shit gets really hairy in a year or two. Unless Trump declares Cypriot citizenship holders to be banned from getting back in. Who knows, Cyprus may be a Christian Orthodox country but we are in the middle east. I'm going to Cyprus this July and I'm very slightly concerned about it. Oye.

 

[K1052]

Word has it that they've scuttled this idea for now since only Pence wanted it the and the current shitstorm is already sufficiently intense.

 

[cytg111]

How the hell is it a "Muslim" ban/delay or whatever if 90% aren't even affected?

Do you people even realize that the vast majority of Muslims aren't from Arab countries? Or do you people automatically think "Arab" when you hear the word "Muslim"? Is the Left that ignorant?

Fern

YPS - “You People Syndrome” much?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

there is no muslim ban.

what, do you think you're a fucking jedi?
these aren't the muslim's you're looking for..
there is no muslim ban...

 

[dank69]

That wasn't a photo shop. I was watching the event when he was given and held it up. Nice try at the lie. Proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1nJ5JwLdU4

I hope it is true. I'm laughing at all the minorities that voted for Trump. I'll laugh harder every time he fucks them over like this.