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LG announces 5.5in 2560x1440 smartphone display
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Brian Stirling
Diamond Member
Actually, battery life has improved in the Android world over the last few years, it could stand to be improved more for sure, but it is better than it was. Some of the increase in battery size that's been noted was to increase operating life as has also already been mentioned.
You could, of course, get much better battery life with the same sized batteries if we: clocked the SoC slower, used smaller LCD displays, and disabled GPS, LTE Blutooth etc, but people want those things so...
Brian
There are a few factors that a higher dpi larger display has an effect on battery life.
1. SOC. You need a more powerful SOC to drive those pixels.
2. Display is larger.
3. HiDPI requires brighter backlighting to cut through the pixel dense screen
Battery tech, for the most part, has not advanced much at all. Looking at gadgets from laptops, to tablets, to smarthphones, the majority of the interior space is for the battery.
Brian Stirling
Diamond Member
And modern smartphones, with larger higher resolution screens, get longer battery life with batteries 30-50% larger than previous generations of smartphones. Therefore, the battery draining effect of larger higher resolution screens is less than 30-50%.
Each generation is produced with the next gen SoC using smaller feature sizes so the amount of power and energy needed to drive a given resolution screen actually goes down. I'm guessing the difference in power/energy required to drive a newer high res screen is no greater than earlier gens.
In my prior I pointed out that the move from 4.3 inch to 5 inch also came with an increase in resolution and a 30-50% increase in battery size but the backlight alone would need about 35% more power just based on the size (area) difference between 4.3 and 5.0.
Had we tried to drive the current 1080 screens using the SoC's of 2-3 years ago it would have drained the battery even faster, but with the advance in feature size that current SoC's have, the power/energy needed are just about the same but with higher resolution.
And I have to question the whole denser LCD thing being an issue given the ppi of even the super high resolution iPad is nowhere near what my HTC One is at. The battery life on my HTC One, with 230mahr battery, is a bit better than the SGNexus I had with the 2100mahr battery (larger Verizon supplied battery). I'd guess the battery life would be nearly identical if it had the same sized battery, but of course, the screen on the One is much higher resolution and nearly the same size physically (just a tad bigger).
methinkns the argument that higher resolution is going to be a battery killer are largely invalid so long as we recognize the move from one res range to the next occurs along with advances in SoC's...
Brian
You must like to hear yourself talk. Smartphone battery life hasn't increased that much, but batteries have increased in size quite a bit. Battery life isn't linear.
Gains in battery life has been from other parts of the phone, not the advancement of battery tech itself. Battery tech is moving at a snails pace.
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Brian Stirling
Diamond Member
And your blathering on about something I've not implied at all. I have not said battery tech has improved -- show me where I said that!
Batteries have gotten bigger to the tune of about 30-50% over the last 2-3 years and the amount of time the phones last on the newer batteries have also increased but not by 30-50%. It makes sense that "larger" displays demand more power if only for the increased area the backlight most illuminate. And, moving to LTE has no doubt increased power usage as well.
The bottom line, and what this thread is all about, is that increasing the resolution alone is not as big a power draw as many here claim -- if it were the newer 1080 phones would be struggling, even with larger batteries.
Brian
Are you denying my bullet points? They are related to a larger dense screen. Blathering? Look at your posts buddy.
I had a galaxy nexus with a 2160 may battery and that phone was a dual core with a 720p screen and had HORRIBLE battery life.like I would be lucky to get 2.5 hours of screen time.
Advances is soc design and LTE modems along with better screen tech gets us way better battery life.like how my galaxy s4 can easily get 5 hours of screen time with 2 more cores and clocking at 1.9ghz along pushing a 5.0 in 1080p screen.
A small bump in battery but also a huge bump in performance and it ends up lasting 2x as long as the older tech in the galaxy nexus
What if lg can make the 2500x screen consume the same power as today's 1080p screens? Just a thought!
Advances is soc design and LTE modems along with better screen tech gets us way better battery life.like how my galaxy s4 can easily get 5 hours of screen time with 2 more cores and clocking at 1.9ghz along pushing a 5.0 in 1080p screen.
A small bump in battery but also a huge bump in performance and it ends up lasting 2x as long as the older tech in the galaxy nexus
What if lg can make the 2500x screen consume the same power as today's 1080p screens? Just a thought!
Brian Stirling
Diamond Member
Not denying your bullet points at all, you apparently don't care to read.
1. I have addressed changes on SoC many times! Newer SoC's are able to handle the higher resolution screens without needing more power/energy!
2. Displays are larger and being larger require more power from the backlight -- that is independent of resolution as the amount of power needed for a given brightness is related to the area of the display so as the display gets bigger the power needed for the backlight increase. Moving from 4.3 inch to 5 inch incurs a 35% increase in display area and thus a 35% increase in power requirements, for a given backlight technology, to provide the same brightness level.
3. You and Virge have made much of the denser screens requiring a disproportionate increase in power but I've pointed out that the tremendous increase in resolution with current 1080 screens did not demand hugely larger batteries so the argument that denser screens are huge drivers of increased power/energy needs is countered by real world data that disproves it.
I've not ignored your bullet points, you've ignored reality!
Brian
Suspicious-Teach8788
Lifer
http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_S4_ShootOut_1.htm
Fact: The GS4 on average uses more power than the GS3 for its display.
Also, with all this talk about SoC, newer SoCs aren't actually less power hungry when active. Anand addressed this in his iPhone 5 review. This is the general trend we're seeing in a lot of computing in that when your CPU is on, it will heat up like a monster. However, what we're seeing increase is the dynamic range in power consumption between idle and load. By trying to race to idle, we can hopefully use less power overall.
However, to say that newer SoCs = use less power, I'm not sure that statement is automatically correct. The same goes with displays.
Fact: The GS4 on average uses more power than the GS3 for its display.
Also, with all this talk about SoC, newer SoCs aren't actually less power hungry when active. Anand addressed this in his iPhone 5 review. This is the general trend we're seeing in a lot of computing in that when your CPU is on, it will heat up like a monster. However, what we're seeing increase is the dynamic range in power consumption between idle and load. By trying to race to idle, we can hopefully use less power overall.
However, to say that newer SoCs = use less power, I'm not sure that statement is automatically correct. The same goes with displays.
To be fair, the GS4 is much brighter at 50% and 100% APL than the GS3. That's why the display efficiency at the same luminance shows .83w for the S3 and .7w for the S4.
Since the S3 is only 92% of the size of the S4 screen, given their actual screen sizes (instead of normalized as above), the S3 would still be at .76w, still higher energy usage than the S4.
The SOC is the quickest to advance in the phone. In any case, we would see bigger gains in battery life and performance on a 1080p screen than a 1440p one.
Ok we agree larger displays require more power. I didn't say anything about resolution at this point.
I've never stated any kind of ratio battery increase needed for a denser screen. I only stated that a denser screen requires a brighter backlit, that's it. An example of this is the iPad. OLED screens are omitted because their pixels are self lit.
shortylickens
No Lifer
Hey guys whats goin on in this thread?
Oh........ OH MY........
Oh........ OH MY........
Iv read that on average the gs4 screen is up to 30% more power efficient then the gs3 screen and my constant 5 hours of on screen time on a single charge seems to make that statement true.
This is taken from your review you posted
Comparing Displays on the Galaxy*S III*and Galaxy S4The Galaxy S4 display is a major enhancement and improvement over the Galaxy S III a good reason to consider trading up. The screen has Full HD 1920x1080 resolution with more than double the number of pixels and with 44 percent higher Pixels Per Inch than the Galaxy S III. It is 25 percent brighter (and up to 68 percent brighter with Automatic Brightness) and the display is 20 percent more power efficient. The Galaxy S4 also has 5 user selectable Screen Modes and delivers much better picture quality and color accuracy.*
lopri
Elite Member
2560x1440 sounds somewhat ridiculous on a phone but looking at it as a jump from 1080p to 1440p it doesn't seem all that unreasonable. It's the same 360p increase that occurred from 720p to 1080p. Sometimes even numbers can dupe. ^^
But it is an interesting topic that I would like some measured answers: The relative effect on smarphone battery life of SoC - Screen size - PPI.
But it is an interesting topic that I would like some measured answers: The relative effect on smarphone battery life of SoC - Screen size - PPI.
Roland00Address
Platinum Member
LG is using an ips lcd screen
Samsung is using an oled screen
LCD screens are subject to the screen door effect, OLED screens do not for each individual pixel in an LCD screen generate light. LCD screens have a backlight and each individual pixel subtract from the backlight to make a white light into a color or black light.
There is no point comparing s3 to s4 in power efficiency, and using that knowledge to infer knowledge with lcd, since the technology works completely different with OLED vs LCD
Samsung is using an oled screen
LCD screens are subject to the screen door effect, OLED screens do not for each individual pixel in an LCD screen generate light. LCD screens have a backlight and each individual pixel subtract from the backlight to make a white light into a color or black light.
There is no point comparing s3 to s4 in power efficiency, and using that knowledge to infer knowledge with lcd, since the technology works completely different with OLED vs LCD
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Brian Stirling
Diamond Member
Yeah, I suspect going to 1440 will be the last increase in resolution, on a 5" class smartphone, that we're likely to see any improvement over, say 1080, and it's uncertain even there. The odds that we'll perceive any improvement going from 1440 to 4K (2160) is, in my view, quite unlikely.
That being the case one could argue we should stop at 1440 or even 1080 if that's the point where perceptible improvements end.
OTH, jumping up to 4K, if accompanied by other improvements to SoC etc, does not noticeably reduce battery life or produce other net negative effects there could well be value in going to 4K if you also have, or plan to have, a 4K TV. Not that you'd need a 4K display on the phone to be able to source 4K, but if sourcing 4K were something you wanted and something you did more that once in a blue moon it might well be desirable if the phone was designed, from the ground up, as 4K.
And really, that's all I've been saying all along.
Brian
Roland00Address
Platinum Member
shortylickens
No Lifer
This is good news.
When I fap to Gianna Micheals at school I need to see all those flabias and labias and stuff.
When I fap to Gianna Micheals at school I need to see all those flabias and labias and stuff.
jiffylube1024
Diamond Member
If you listen to the Anandtech podcasts, you'd realize that, as Brian Klug points out, display and battery tests at fixed percentages (50%, 100%) are meaningless apples-to-oranges comparisons, since each display is different, and has a completely different maximum and optimal brightness level.
That is why, for example, initial reviews of the 2013 Nexus 7 at 50%-100% brightness "showed" it has terrible battery life, even thought the brightness at 20-40% is about what you get at 50-100% on an original Nexus 7, and many older tablets.
So, the GS4 at 100% could very likely use more battery than the GS3 at 100% (or 50%), but it would be interesting to see what their battery consumption is like at a fixed brightness, say 300 nits.
jiffylube1024
Diamond Member
The screen door effect is essentially just an issue of PPI - it was an issue on 1st gen AMOLED Samsung Galaxy S phones too. On LCD's it was essentially 'solved' with "Retina"-class displays - 300+ PPI screens.
You know what's even funnier? How you say how its so funny and take the time to quote him and not read or comprehend what he is saying.
LCD back light light source is used to push through the screen like a screen door.
Oled makes its own light without a backlight and notice how the brightness of this hi res display is lower then today's lcds? Its because the pixels are a lot smaller and less room for that screen door backlight to push through and give you light
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