LF 60fps hand drawn cartoon.

El Guaraguao

Diamond Member
May 7, 2008
3,468
5
81
Whats the frame rate of a hand drawn cartoon? About 24fps right? This is gonna sound a bit weird but, What would a hand drawn cartoon @60fps look like? Would it be like experiencing a 3D film for the first time? Or how about the feeling you got when you went from 2D games to 3D games? So my question to you is in the title. Looking for 60fps hand drawn cartoon. None of that computer made digital BS pl0x!
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
59,099
9,534
126
That would be twice as much work for little gain. Do games look drastically different at 60fps as opposed to 30fps?
 

Sa7aN

Senior member
Aug 16, 2010
204
1
0
No different.

your eye cannot distinguish fps higher than 30fps.

The USAF, in testing their pilots for visual response time, used a simple test to see if the pilots could distinguish small changes in light. In their experiment a picture of an aircraft was flashed on a screen in a dark room at 1/220th of a second. Pilots were consistently able to "see" the afterimage as well as identify the aircraft. This simple and specific situation not only proves the ability to percieve 1 image within 1/220 of a second, but the ability to interpret higher FPS.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,585
30,836
146
yes


but i dont think anyones willing to draw that many frames. most cartoons are actually only 12 fps (sometimes more sometimes less)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_of_vision#Cartoon_animation

most cartoons...yes. but that's because the market is flooded with cheap japanese bullshit cartoons like pokemon that are recycled lazy shit.

Any feature animated film that is worth its salt is going to bottom out at 24 fps. If not--then you don't deserve funding. If you accept that crap (as a consumer, a producer, creator...), then you have no taste--and should not be part of the industry.

imho.
 

El Guaraguao

Diamond Member
May 7, 2008
3,468
5
81
Of course you can tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps. Watch your local news on TV then change the channel to a movie. Its kind of hard to explain, but media running @60fps is much more fluid. Folks in the PC gaming community know exactly what im talking about.
 

guyver01

Lifer
Sep 25, 2000
22,135
5
61

LOL all you want...

anyone who sits there and says they can see the difference on TV between 30fps and 40fps...or in a videogame of 30fps and 100fps... is lying their ass off. There are other factors involved other than fps.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
59,099
9,534
126
It's not a DRASTIC difference. A /little/ smoother isn't worth twice the already arduous work.
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
12
81
LOL all you want...

anyone who sits there and says they can see the difference on TV between 30fps and 40fps...or in a videogame of 30fps and 100fps... is lying their ass off. There are other factors involved other than fps.

Definitely untrue. Go download a clip that has a 30fps and 60fps version and see the difference yourself.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,585
30,836
146
Of course you can tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps. Watch your local news on TV then change the channel to a movie. Its kind of hard to explain, but media running @60fps is much more fluid. Folks in the PC gaming community know exactly what im talking about.

film is 24 fps. it actually looks "more natural" on the screen. This is why the 420p "mini DV" camcorder technology of yesteryear (c. 2003) looks like crap on screen--fluid and direct...but crap.

simply put--your eye doesn't interpret 2D images (film, screen) in the same way that it interprets 3D (the world). The human max "shutter speed" is 26-27fps, iirc. anything above that is simply indistinguishable. period.

film is shot at 24 fps b/c, well...after ~ 1 century of testing, that seems to be "what we like." It simply looks real. This is difficult to quantify, yes...but it tends to be more comfortable than what we see on the local news at 30fps.


I'm talking about film. recording image as it is. Talking about synthetic images...well, it's possible that our visual recognition starts having problems when you try to render cartoons, or graphics--image that suffers from aliasing or other anomalies that aren't exactly perfect, so the extra fps "may indeed" compensate as a stop-gap for the overall lower quality of each individual frame.

maybe this sounds confusing, but one has to accept that when looking at graphics...20 fps vs 60 fps vs 120 fps is essentially incomparable to 24fps vs 30 fps of real video footage.

your brain is one sensitive animal. your eyes have limits and specific ranges where it prefers to operate. images and video--we know and understand these limits. graphics and animation remain a "Cheat," b/c there is nothing realistic about this process.

i hope that makes sense....
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,585
30,836
146
notice how the 240hz tv's have this realistic/plasticky effect on movies/shows?

exactly.



don't try to explain it to the video game people, though. they simply don't understand fps and the human eye, vs video, vs animation/rendered graphics...from what I've seen here, anyway.
 

Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,502
136
It's called interpolation, shut it off and it'll look like any other LCD / Flat panel TV.

Exactly.

It's unnatural looking because the source material FPS doesn't match the refresh rate of the screen, it's far lower.

For video games or content generated to match (not that there is much out there), 240 Hz looks good.
 

wwswimming

Banned
Jan 21, 2006
3,695
1
0
That would be twice as much work for little gain. Do games look drastically different at 60fps as opposed to 30fps?

depends on the tools used.

some software, e.g. Flash, allows users to use a "tweening" function to draw in-between frames ... sometimes (depends on what is being drawn). also to adjust the number of FPS.
 

Ben90

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2009
2,866
3
0
No different.

your eye cannot distinguish fps higher than 30fps.

One of the things that pisses me off about Windows is after a few hours, it decides to cap most of its visual functions to 60fps, making scrolling and generally navigating windows seem choppy. A quick fix is to drag a window around to restore it to its normal fluid motion.
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
12
81
film is 24 fps. it actually looks "more natural" on the screen. This is why the 420p "mini DV" camcorder technology of yesteryear (c. 2003) looks like crap on screen--fluid and direct...but crap.

simply put--your eye doesn't interpret 2D images (film, screen) in the same way that it interprets 3D (the world). The human max "shutter speed" is 26-27fps, iirc. anything above that is simply indistinguishable. period.

film is shot at 24 fps b/c, well...after ~ 1 century of testing, that seems to be "what we like." It simply looks real. This is difficult to quantify, yes...but it tends to be more comfortable than what we see on the local news at 30fps.


I'm talking about film. recording image as it is. Talking about synthetic images...well, it's possible that our visual recognition starts having problems when you try to render cartoons, or graphics--image that suffers from aliasing or other anomalies that aren't exactly perfect, so the extra fps "may indeed" compensate as a stop-gap for the overall lower quality of each individual frame.

maybe this sounds confusing, but one has to accept that when looking at graphics...20 fps vs 60 fps vs 120 fps is essentially incomparable to 24fps vs 30 fps of real video footage.

your brain is one sensitive animal. your eyes have limits and specific ranges where it prefers to operate. images and video--we know and understand these limits. graphics and animation remain a "Cheat," b/c there is nothing realistic about this process.

i hope that makes sense....

There is a difference between the speed at which something has to be displayed in order to not distinguish still images (~25 fps), and the speed at which something has to be displayed in order to not get any more noticeable improvement (much higher).