Lexus RC F

[hans007]

toyota hasn't been adding paper horsepower to their V6s like they did in the late 90s, eh?

Pretty sure they just haven't advanced engines period.

A 428i can outrun an rc350 in every performance metric. The rc and is lines on top of having older and engines (other than he finally release is200t) are heavy for their class.

I test drove an is350 when it came out and it was too of its class back then. But the 330i of that era made 260 HP naturally aspirated and it was still better dynamically. Lexus puts it really the same engines in the current is350 with a better transmission and the BMW gives you a car that weighs less with 70 more horses and maybe 89-90 lb ft more torque than back then. It's even worse with Mercedes. I think a w203 c320 put out maybe 220 hp and had a 5 speed auto when w205 c43s will have 360+ and 9 speeds . Lexus just hasn't been keeping up and neither has Acura (I had an 05 tsx also.... The ilx and tlx were still running basically the same k24 engine.) They have been making a ton of money milking old platforms and engines. The Japanese companies figured out playing it safe with reliable "good enough" platforms has better ROI than leading and maybe having a failure and unreliability

 

[NutBucket]

They just deliver what the customers want. Acura and Lexus buyers are not seeking "ultimate performance" or bragging rights.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Pretty sure they just haven't advanced engines period.

A 428i can outrun an rc350 in every performance metric. The rc and is lines on top of having older and engines (other than he finally release is200t) are heavy for their class.

I test drove an is350 when it came out and it was too of its class back then. But the 330i of that era made 260 HP naturally aspirated and it was still better dynamically. Lexus puts it really the same engines in the current is350 with a better transmission and the BMW gives you a car that weighs less with 70 more horses and maybe 89-90 lb ft more torque than back then. It's even worse with Mercedes. I think a w203 c320 put out maybe 220 hp and had a 5 speed auto when w205 c43s will have 360+ and 9 speeds . Lexus just hasn't been keeping up and neither has Acura (I had an 05 tsx also.... The ilx and tlx were still running basically the same k24 engine.) They have been making a ton of money milking old platforms and engines. The Japanese companies figured out playing it safe with reliable "good enough" platforms has better ROI than leading and maybe having a failure and unreliability

I test drove a 2006 IS350 back when they were first released and I was pretty impressed with it. Then we bought an IS250 for my wife which we kept for 8 years but I always felt that car was really under powered. It was adequate but nothing more. I always regretted getting the IS250.

I haven't driven an IS350 since but we would get the 250 as a loaner periodically. Still not impressive as far as power output goes but they are well put together and feature rich.

I have a 2016 Mercedes C300 sedan as a loaner car right now and I'm unimpressed with it quite frankly. No keyless entry or keyless start, no satellite radio, no cooled seats and it has a turbocharged 4 banger. It gets up and goes if you stomp on it but the engine feels buzzy and it doesn't sound particularly good either. It is a comfortable car though and feels well balanced and flickable with good brakes. Cabin isolation is pretty good too, it is quiet and comfortable inside. I'd choose the C300 over a Lexus IS250 but honestly, I wouldn't buy either one.

 

[hans007]

I test drove a 2006 IS350 back when they were first released and I was pretty impressed with it. Then we bought an IS250 for my wife which we kept for 8 years but I always felt that car was really under powered. It was adequate but nothing more. I always regretted getting the IS250.

I haven't driven an IS350 since but we would get the 250 as a loaner periodically. Still not impressive as far as power output goes but they are well put together and feature rich.

I have a 2016 Mercedes C300 sedan as a loaner car right now and I'm unimpressed with it quite frankly. No keyless entry or keyless start, no satellite radio, no cooled seats and it has a turbocharged 4 banger. It gets up and goes if you stomp on it but the engine feels buzzy and it doesn't sound particularly good either. It is a comfortable car though and feels well balanced and flickable with good brakes. Cabin isolation is pretty good too, it is quiet and comfortable inside. I'd choose the C300 over a Lexus IS250 but honestly, I wouldn't buy either one.

i'm guessing the loaner is pretty stripped, i mean you can easily add all of that if you were really buying it. I love the new C class properly equipped (i am ordering one soon ), but all the turbo 4s out there are kind of buzzy and crappy sounding (my f30 has probably one of the best ones and it still sounds like a lawn mower at low speeds, had the b8 a4 too, same cheap sound). C300 also hasn't gotten the new 9 speed transmission so it will feel underpowered. I guess the 250 might sound better since it is a V6 (and its a 2.0 turbo now in the 200t as well) but the car was definitely underpowered for its weight.

 

[agent00f]

They just deliver what the customers want. Acura and Lexus buyers are not seeking "ultimate performance" or bragging rights.

This is the fundamental reality of it. The europeans makes need the top specs or whatever to justify their relative price & quirks/hassles. The japanese follow the next gen with reliably good enough for bit less. There's often the gap years in between when platforms/models are updated. It's not as if the japanese can't figure out how to make more power out of a motor.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I would rather have the GS-F, same engine, torque-vectoring differential (option on RC-F) and can run in Atkinson mode.

I have a GS350 F Sport, going to HPS short ram intake and Invidia cat back exhaust (70mm/2.8"), it's much more peppy and responsive than stock.

 

[hans007]

This is the fundamental reality of it. The europeans makes need the top specs or whatever to justify their relative price & quirks/hassles. The japanese follow the next gen with reliably good enough for bit less. There's often the gap years in between when platforms/models are updated. It's not as if the japanese can't figure out how to make more power out of a motor.

honestly my BMW has been more reliable than the acura i've owned.

i don't even think that is a huge issue anymore. the japanese just don't want to take risks . and it suits them they make money and its safe.

the japanese know that their cadre of loyal honda / toyota buyers will move up to the shiny badge version of basically similar cars. and thats their clientele. theres not some horde of BMW buyers switching to lexus i'll tell you that.

Its not like a lexus or infiniti is appreciably cheaper than the equivalent performance say BMW. at least at the price points we are talking about a couple grand here or there, no one cares about.

The japanese don't want to make more power out of a motor, because they would have to give up some reliability and they would lose the "safe japanese car customers". It just depends on what you want.

Honestly the japanese interiors are cheap feeling so they don't get luxury either. If you want to touch some chromed out plastic or plastic knobs and door handles buy a japanese "luxury" car. Have you guys been in a recent infiniti, or acura (lexus ia bit better , but still... plastic door handles.. meh) lately. its not luxury at all, why even bother might as well just get a normal honda or nissan maxima

 

[Londo_Jowo]

honestly my BMW has been more reliable than the acura i've owned.

i don't even think that is a huge issue anymore. the japanese just don't want to take risks . and it suits them they make money and its safe.

the japanese know that their cadre of loyal honda / toyota buyers will move up to the shiny badge version of basically similar cars. and thats their clientele. theres not some horde of BMW buyers switching to lexus i'll tell you that.

Its not like a lexus or infiniti is appreciably cheaper than the equivalent performance say BMW. at least at the price points we are talking about a couple grand here or there, no one cares about.

The japanese don't want to make more power out of a motor, because they would have to give up some reliability and they would lose the "safe japanese car customers". It just depends on what you want.

Honestly the japanese interiors are cheap feeling so they don't get luxury either. If you want to touch some chromed out plastic or plastic knobs and door handles buy a japanese "luxury" car. Have you guys been in a recent infiniti, or acura (lexus ia bit better , but still... plastic door handles.. meh) lately. its not luxury at all, why even bother might as well just get a normal honda or nissan maxima

No chromed out plastic in here.

Most of my friends who own BMWs have their cars in the shop all the time with issues. Several have even tried to using lemon laws to get out of leases or force the dealer to fix the issues.

 

[jlee]

honestly my BMW has been more reliable than the acura i've owned.

i don't even think that is a huge issue anymore. the japanese just don't want to take risks . and it suits them they make money and its safe.

the japanese know that their cadre of loyal honda / toyota buyers will move up to the shiny badge version of basically similar cars. and thats their clientele. theres not some horde of BMW buyers switching to lexus i'll tell you that.

Its not like a lexus or infiniti is appreciably cheaper than the equivalent performance say BMW. at least at the price points we are talking about a couple grand here or there, no one cares about.

The japanese don't want to make more power out of a motor, because they would have to give up some reliability and they would lose the "safe japanese car customers". It just depends on what you want.

Honestly the japanese interiors are cheap feeling so they don't get luxury either. If you want to touch some chromed out plastic or plastic knobs and door handles buy a japanese "luxury" car. Have you guys been in a recent infiniti, or acura (lexus ia bit better , but still... plastic door handles.. meh) lately. its not luxury at all, why even bother might as well just get a normal honda or nissan maxima

I have yet to see a BMW interior that impressed me. 2011 135i, 2013ish 328i, 2015 5-series...bleh. The interior on my GX470 was beautiful.

 

[hans007]

No chromed out plastic in here.

Most of my friends who own BMWs have their cars in the shop all the time with issues. Several have even tried to using lemon laws to get out of leases or force the dealer to fix the issues.

first thats a GS but its the little things, the door handles are plastic on the IS for sure. its got silver paint on it not chrome. but its things like that. lexus interior is easily the best japanese one, and probably on par with say a 3 series (which is the worst on the german side). but compare that to say an audi a6, or a new E class (which the GS competes with) and its noticeable

 

[agent00f]

honestly my BMW has been more reliable than the acura i've owned.

i don't even think that is a huge issue anymore. the japanese just don't want to take risks . and it suits them they make money and its safe.

the japanese know that their cadre of loyal honda / toyota buyers will move up to the shiny badge version of basically similar cars. and thats their clientele. theres not some horde of BMW buyers switching to lexus i'll tell you that.

Its not like a lexus or infiniti is appreciably cheaper than the equivalent performance say BMW. at least at the price points we are talking about a couple grand here or there, no one cares about.

The japanese don't want to make more power out of a motor, because they would have to give up some reliability and they would lose the "safe japanese car customers". It just depends on what you want.

Honestly the japanese interiors are cheap feeling so they don't get luxury either. If you want to touch some chromed out plastic or plastic knobs and door handles buy a japanese "luxury" car. Have you guys been in a recent infiniti, or acura (lexus ia bit better , but still... plastic door handles.. meh) lately. its not luxury at all, why even bother might as well just get a normal honda or nissan maxima

There's a marked difference in statistical reliability as seen in various surveys. BMW & such are simply not designed for the long term; plastic cooling systems that rot at <100k a prime example. This is also the main reason why japanese car ownership costs less, due to corresponding lower depreciation.

Interior "quality" follows a similar pattern. The german interior/features might feel a bit better at the start but after a while little pieces always start malfunctioning.

This is why in the scheme of things it's imo usually better to lease the germans & keep japanese for the long haul.