Letterbox movies on a 16:9 TV? DVD and Bluray HDMI output, WHY?!?!?!

[BillyBatson]

This issue is really annoying me.
I have a Pioneer 42" HD Plasma tv. My friend has a Panasonic 42" HD Plasma tv. I own about 200 DVD's and he owns about 500. Certain movies will play in full 16:9 and fit our screens perfectly. Others even though they claim to be 16:9 are still letterboxed on both of our sets (though smaller than if viewed on a 4:3 tv).
I purchased an HDMI Upconversion dvd player which didn't make any difference when it came to fitting the screen even when i chose 720p or 1080i output so i took it back.
Last night we opened my friends PS3, connected it to his Pany and fired her up. We had 4 Bluray movies on hand, T2 Judgement Day, House Of Flying Daggers, Full Metal Jacket, and Taladega Nights. EACH of these movies were letterboxed and did not fit the screen perfectly no matter what resolution we tried to output out of the HDMI output. We popped in a standard DVD that we know never fit the screen and same thing.

What is the problem? We want our 16:9 movies to fit our screens perfectly! The BD movies looked great but they would have looked better if they fit the screen!
any help as to fix this, a way around this, or an explanation to why it does this?

 

[Ranulf]

Off hand I'd say those movies were at a non standard (to your tv) aspect ratio. You might double check your player's output setting as well.

http://www.reelclassics.com/Techtalk/aspectratio-article.htm

http://www.high-techproductions.com/widescreen.htm

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Some movies are wider than 16:9.

2.35:1 is a very common aspect ratio for movies. 16:9 is a compromise of aspect ratio between 4:3 and 2.35:1.

HD material is 16:9 along with some movies as you noted.

Nothing is "wrong" if I understand your comments. If the black bars are just on the top and bottom of the screen and things don't look "stretched", then that's how you want it.

I made some masking panels for my screen for the different aspect ratios. It's just part of the game.
16:9
https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughli...20Finished/2%2016%20by%209%20Angle.JPG
2.35:1
https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughli...20Finished/6%202point35to1%20Angle.JPG
4:3
https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughli...inished/4%204to3%20Masking%20Angle.JPG

You could get it to fill a 16:9 screen, but you'd either be cutting off the sides of the image or stretching it somehow.

 

[BillyBatson]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Some movies are wider than 16:9.

2.35:1 is a very common aspect ratio for movies. 16:9 is a compromise of aspect ratio between 4:3 and 2.35:1.

HD material is 16:9 along with some movies as you noted.

Nothing is "wrong" if I understand your comments. If the black bars are just on the top and bottom of the screen and things don't look "stretched", then that's how you want it.

I made some masking panels for my screen for the different aspect ratios. It's just part of the game.
16:9
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughlin/web/7%20DIY%20Screen/4%20Finished/2%2016%20by%209%20Angle.JPG">https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaug......nished/2%2016%20by%209%20Angle.JPG</a>
2.35:1
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughlin/web/7%20DIY%20Screen/4%20Finished/6%202point35to1%20Angle.JPG">https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaug......nished/6%202point35to1%20Angle.JPG</a>
4:3
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughlin/web/7%20DIY%20Screen/4%20Finished/4%204to3%20Masking%20Angle.JPG">https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaug......hed/4%204to3%20Masking%20Angle.JPG</a>

You could get it to fill a 16:9 screen, but you'd either be cutting off the sides of the image or stretching it somehow.

yeha i read your thread where you made it. I am seriously considering making a screen like yours and buying a projector since i won't care what aspect ratio is displayed on the wall.

for instance Troy does not fit but at the bottom it says "widescreen version presented in a "letterbox" widescreen format preserving the "scope" aspect ratio of its original theatrical exhibition. Enhanced for widescreen tv's"

T2: Judgment Day Exreme DVD says "widescreen version" presented in a "matted" widescreen format preserving the 2:35:1 aspect ratio of its original theatrical exhibition. enhanced for 16:9" which does not fit either tv either.

i do have a movie here that that states 16:9 yet doesn't fit either. can't rememebr which one it was

just dissapointed is all, so much money put into it and the best way to go is a projector. They should just come wout iwth 2:35:1 tv's rather than 16:9 then so they won't have to adjust anything and the pic will always fit

 

[kpb]

Originally posted by: BillyBatson
just dissapointed is all, so much money put into it and the best way to go is a projector. They should just come wout iwth 2:35:1 tv's rather than 16:9 then so they won't have to adjust anything and the pic will always fit

That wouldn't work either. The simple fact of the matter is that there are a large variety of aspect ratios for hd and no TV is going to be able to fit them all. A projector isn't as noticable as say an lcd tv because it has better black levels so you don't get the grey bars. The more I learn about video the more I'm suprised things work as well as they do with all the aspect ratios, frame rates, interlacing, pull up/pull down etc that can be occuring. It's actually pretty amazing that we get anything resembling even descent quality outta anything.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: BillyBatson

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Some movies are wider than 16:9.

2.35:1 is a very common aspect ratio for movies. 16:9 is a compromise of aspect ratio between 4:3 and 2.35:1.

HD material is 16:9 along with some movies as you noted.

Nothing is "wrong" if I understand your comments. If the black bars are just on the top and bottom of the screen and things don't look "stretched", then that's how you want it.

I made some masking panels for my screen for the different aspect ratios. It's just part of the game.
16:9
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughli...20Finished/2%2016%20by%209%20Angle.JPG"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughlin/web/7%20DIY%20Screen/4%20Finished/2%2016%20by%209%20Angle.JPG">https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmcl.........ed/2%2016%20by%209%20Angle.JPG</a></a>
2.35:1
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughli...20Finished/6%202point35to1%20Angle.JPG"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughlin/web/7%20DIY%20Screen/4%20Finished/6%202point35to1%20Angle.JPG">https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmcl.........ed/6%202point35to1%20Angle.JPG</a></a>
4:3
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughli...inished/4%204to3%20Masking%20Angle.JPG"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughlin/web/7%20DIY%20Screen/4%20Finished/4%204to3%20Masking%20Angle.JPG">https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmcl.........4%204to3%20Masking%20Angle.JPG</a></a>

You could get it to fill a 16:9 screen, but you'd either be cutting off the sides of the image or stretching it somehow.

yeha i read your thread where you made it. I am seriously considering making a screen like yours and buying a projector since i won't care what aspect ratio is displayed on the wall.

for instance Troy does not fit but at the bottom it says "widescreen version presented in a "letterbox" widescreen format preserving the "scope" aspect ratio of its original theatrical exhibition. Enhanced for widescreen tv's"

T2: Judgment Day Exreme DVD says "widescreen version" presented in a "matted" widescreen format preserving the 2:35:1 aspect ratio of its original theatrical exhibition. enhanced for 16:9" which does not fit either tv either.

i do have a movie here that that states 16:9 yet doesn't fit either. can't rememebr which one it was

just dissapointed is all, so much money put into it and the best way to go is a projector. They should just come wout iwth 2:35:1 tv's rather than 16:9 then so they won't have to adjust anything and the pic will always fit

If your TV was 2.35:1 though you'd just turn your bars problem from horizontal bars to vertical bars

Constant image height it something some people are doing with their projectors though

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=117

I used to get irritated with 2.35:1 material until I just figured out to go with the flow

Get a huge screen and it wont bother you as much :laugh:

As long as I'm getting the whole horizontal width of my screen filled up, I'm happy. It's often confusing if a DVD is going to be 1.78:1 or 2.35:1 based on the description of it on the back.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: kpb

Originally posted by: BillyBatson
just dissapointed is all, so much money put into it and the best way to go is a projector. They should just come wout iwth 2:35:1 tv's rather than 16:9 then so they won't have to adjust anything and the pic will always fit

That wouldn't work either. The simple fact of the matter is that there are a large variety of aspect ratios for hd and no TV is going to be able to fit them all. A projector isn't as noticable as say an lcd tv because it has better black levels so you don't get the grey bars. The more I learn about video the more I'm suprised things work as well as they do with all the aspect ratios, frame rates, interlacing, pull up/pull down etc that can be occuring. It's actually pretty amazing that we get anything resembling even descent quality outta anything.

The black levels on LCD and DLP projectors actually aren't that great. That's one of the big reasons I had to make a masking system for my screen. Even "black" has projected light in it. And the "black" can only be as dark as your screen material. Once of the reasons projectors look so crappy with the lights on.

 

[Childs]

It depends on the film. Most big budget/action films are 2.35:1. Most comedies and indy films are 16x9. Most TV is 4x3. Most HD TV is 16x9. Yeah, its annoying, but then it you had a 2.35:1 format TV, 16x9 and 4:3 wouldnt look right, and need to either be scaled down, top and bottom cut off, or squeezed to fit. 16x9 is the best for TV right now, as squishing 4x3 isnt too bad, and 2.35:1 you still see everything, and the screen real estate is better used than on a 4x3 format tv.

 

[Rubycon]

I love the scope format but then again our screen is ~400"

 

[kmmatney]

I have a lot of movies like that too. What we should be able to do is zoom in on the movie to fill the screen. One of my DVD players has a few good zoom options for this, while my other one doesn't. My TVs have a few zoom options as well, but none of them good enough to make a letterbox movie fill a widescreen. They should just make TVs with custom zoom amounts, so we can fill out the 16:9 screen.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: kmmatney
I have a lot of movies like that too. What we should be able to do is zoom in on the movie to fill the screen. One of my DVD players has a few good zoom options for this, while my other one doesn't. My TVs have a few zoom options as well, but none of them good enough to make a letterbox movie fill a widescreen. They should just make TVs with custom zoom amounts, so we can fill out the 16:9 screen.

Noooo! That's effectively cropping and you will LOSE some of the program.

 

[Noema]

Originally posted by: MS Dawn

Originally posted by: kmmatney
I have a lot of movies like that too. What we should be able to do is zoom in on the movie to fill the screen. One of my DVD players has a few good zoom options for this, while my other one doesn't. My TVs have a few zoom options as well, but none of them good enough to make a letterbox movie fill a widescreen. They should just make TVs with custom zoom amounts, so we can fill out the 16:9 screen.

Noooo! That's effectively cropping and you will LOSE some of the program.

Yeah, I'd rather have the letterboxing than cutting content out.

 

[Auric]

It would be much easier to understand if mismatched terminology wasn't thrown around. "16x9" is a catch-all and often misnomer when it comes to statements on home video packaging because it equates to an aspect ratio of 1.78:1 which is a common home display AR but the least common movie AR; indeed it is not standard and really only used for video productions and not film.

If it was actually 1.78:1 then I would generally not recommend buying (or even renting) it since that most often implies cropping although in rare cases it could actually mean increased vertical content (or some combination of) compared to the theatrical release.

Anyway, the most common modern film AR's are 1.85:1 and 2.39:1 (2.35:1 pre-1970). Previous to the 1950's when TV began to challenge theaters for audiences, the dominant AR was 1.37:1 and before that 1.33:1 (the same as NTSC 1.33:1). 1.66:1 and less common AR's are hardly worth mentioning for the purposes of a general discussion.

So, as mentioned by several others now, home displays are a compromise one way or the other but chances are you never complain when the entire screen at the theater is not used (and it never is).

In summary: buying cropped home videos makes baby Jesus cry and if filling your display seems a necessity then get a bigger one (rinse and repeat).