letter from a Gitmo prisoner

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller


As I always ask people who don't believe me; if 1776 had to happen today, again, if we had to get rid of an dictator/king/authoritarian figure who became so currupt that democracy couldn't effectively work, could we? Could we raise our own army, use our own currency, conspire as a people to overthrow a vile and non-representative government? Could we do what Washington and the Continental Congress did to gain independance for the people so that an effective Democracy could once again flourish?

No, we have given up too much at this point. A new 1776 would fail, it's leaders found through warrantless wiretaps, email, bank records, and such. They would be imprisoned as terrorists and the surrounding patriots burned at the stake as terrorists.

The experiment of the Rule of the People has failed.

It would all depend on what the people with the guns decided to do. Namely our own armed forces. If it ever came down to some rag-tag band of "rebels" or "patriots" against America's own armed forces, where our own armed forces were pitted against us, we could never win. I don't think we could ever forcefully institute drastic change or overthrow our own government today without the backing of our own military behind the people. This is no longer 1776. They have tanks and laser guided bombs and all kinds of stuff that you'd have been burned as a witch for talking about back then. The common people will never have access to this kind of weaponry to effect change. Back then it was all cannons and muskets. A pretty even playing field. The only advantage that one side truly had over the other was numbers of troops. Not today. Our own military has become far far too powerful for American citizens to ever dream of overthrowing the government without its backing and approval. Now GWB might be pretty bad but last I checked, the military was still taking orders from him. And I don't think things have gotten nearly bad enough for long enough yet for the men and women of our armed forces to consider mutiny. Of course the next problem would be, even if they did, then we'd likely have a military dictatorship of some sort on our hands.

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: Pens1566

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Pens1566
No. They're a legit concern when a little more effort is put into investigating them instead of arresting the first 6 guys reported to be terrists for a bullsh!t political photo-op.

As for OKC, how many McVeigh clones have been rounded up and placed into permanent detention without legal rep? It's ok, I'll wait ......

Which explain why all 6 plead guilty right? They just wanted their pictures on TV?

Let?s look at what they actually did? from PBS, a known right wing news source :roll:

In January 2003, Galab was the first of the "Lackawanna Six" to plead guilty to material support of terrorism. In his plea, he admitted to traveling to the camp, knowing that the trip was illegal, and receiving weapons training. He also acknowledged Osama bin Laden had spoken at the camp.

In May 2001, Goba traveled with Sahim Alwan, Jaber Elbaneh and Mukhtar al-Bakri to Pakistan, where the group split up and made their way into Afghanistan to an Al Qaeda training camp. Goba was considered one of the group's leaders and after returning from Afghanistan he maintained phone and e-mail communication with Derwish, who remained overseas. In his March 2003 guilty plea, Goba admitted having trained to use firearms, including a rocket-propelled grenade launcher, as well as explosives. He also said that Osama bin Laden had spoken at the camp of men "willing to become martyrs for the cause.

In Afghanistan, al-Bakri and the others met Osama bin Laden, who visited the camp. Al-Bakri says he told the Al Qaeda leader he was worried because his parents didn't know where he was. He hoped that he would be allowed to leave but he says bin Laden responded by suggesting he write his parents a letter, telling them where he was. Al-Bakri also said that he was made to stay an additional week at the camp for "extra training."
Al-Bakri came under increased surveillance after the U.S. government reviewed and analyzed an e-mail he sent while traveling in Saudi Arabia months before his arrest. The e-mail referred to an upcoming "big meal" that authorities interpreted as a code for an impending terrorist attack. Al-Bakri told the FBI he had overheard a conversation about an attack but did not know any details. He said he had used a code because he was afraid his e-mail was being monitored.

Mosed pled guilty to material support in March 2003. In his plea deal with the U.S. government, he admitted to knowing beforehand that the planned trip was illegal and that the training camp they were going to was associated with Osama bin Laden. He said he performed guard duty at the camp and also received training in mountain climbing and weapons. He told the government that he heard bin Laden speak of "50 men who were on a suicide mission" when the Al Qaeda leader visited the camp.

So 6 guys visit a terrorist training camp and meet with Osama himself, and yet you call their arrests a photo-op?

I ask again, what do they have to do to make them a ?legit? terror threat?

Why not post a link to that so we can all determine if it's really from PBS and what context it was in. IIRC that was the verbatim govt. story.

Wasn't the arrest of the Lackawanna group the one that had to be announced the minute Ashcroft got to moscow, even thought they'd been arrested a month before? Photo-op is being polite.

Still waiting on that conveniently left out "PBS" linkage ........

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
For those of you bitching about the detainees not having rights and such, how do you think we should try them?

Civilian Court ala Zacarias Moussaoui? That only took 5 years and $50 million dollars.
Let see? there are about 300 people in Gitmo now, only take us about a billion dollars to try them all at that rate, not a big deal right?

well, Im sure the Geneva Convention might have something to say regarding the rights and treatment of prisioners of war.

And if not, then there should be an international governing body that is adequate...no?

did you ever stop to think WHY it cost so much and took so long to try Z. Moussaoui in a US court?

POW status is only granted to captured SOLDIERS. the scumbags at gitmo are not soldiers by any fashion.


Article 4
2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) That of carrying arms openly;

(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Citrix
the scumbags at gitmo are not soldiers by any fashion.

indeed. most of them are hapless citizens, who committed the crime of being Muslim or Arab in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Citrix
the scumbags at gitmo are not soldiers by any fashion.

indeed. most of them are hapless citizens, who committed the crime of being Muslim or Arab in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Yep. There were many cases where they were turned in as terrists by a rival tribe. How many have been let go vs. how many have been actually charged with anything? I bet you can guess which number is bigger!!!

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Pens1566
Still waiting on that conveniently left out "PBS" linkage ........

Frontline: Chasing the sleeper cell

PBS interview with one of them

Profiles of the members
This one is where my info came from.

PBS profile of Al Dosari, the man who wrote the letter.

A lawyer for one of the men who attended the sessions told The Buffalo News that Juma said the pilgrimage to Mecca would not be enough to save their souls: They must also train for Jihad...
Then, on April 30, the preacher named Juma left Lackawanna. Days later, Derwish and seven of the young men Juma regularly met with traveled to Afghanistan for training in Osama bin Laden's camps...
In interviews with FRONTLINE and The New York Times, FBI officials say this traveling imam was in fact an Al Qaeda recruiter. Currently detained as an enemy combatant and under interrogation at the U.S. Naval Base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, Juma Al Dosari -- a Saudi in his early '30s -- has been nicknamed "The Closer" for the role he played in recruiting the Lackawanna men. His story has given investigators a rare insight into Al Qaeda's recruitment efforts in the U.S., and may lead them to other sleeper cells still hiding here today...

A detailed brief on how they recruit

This profile is an investigative theory based on Indianapolis investigation on Juma Al Doseri activities and is similar to Kamal Derwish's activity noted in Buffalo investigation. This profile details how Kamal Derwish recruited the Buffalo cell members and how Juma AlDoseri was used to recruited individuals to attend training camps.

An Islamic Center is identified/located, UBL Operative attends and over time identifies young Islamic men who are attending the Center for worship and knowledge of Islam. A friendship is developed with each individual and over time, each individual interests, emotional state, strength and weakness are identified. Older members of the Islamic Center are excluded as they would not be likely to accept fundamentalism views and would not be as susceptible to the younger members of the Islamic Center.

The young people are then invited to a location, apartment/house outside the Islamic Center in part to socialize and in part to learn more about Islam. The discussions/meetings usually occur after evening prayers, which would be after 10 pm. to early morning hours, 2-3 am.

The discussions over time would begin to detail historical Muslim conflicts, detailing individuals/heros who have fought for the Muslim faith and had thus, won honor, fame, and for themselves and God.

Individuals would continued to be evaluated as discussions begin to be directed toward a fundamentalism view of Islam. As the meetings progress, the young individuals are told of the suffering of Muslims in the world. That Muslims are being prosecuted and are suffering and how Muslim woman are being raped, tortured, killed; how true Muslims are fighting for the Muslim faith. How Muslims have a duty to fight in Jihad and how martyrdom is justified. The UBL Operative would meet individually with each group member as each group member is given an individual encouragement to pursue his individual duty toward Jihad, and duty to a fundamentalism Islamic belief.

Eventually, the individual members are approached about becoming prepared to defend Muslim beliefs and fight for Jihad. The way to defend Islam is to be prepared and trained to fight all those who would threaten Islam.

You get the point yet? This is a BAD dude and should not be let free to roam the world attracting others to follow jihad.

BTW: How many more PBS links would you like before you believe me?

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
The experiment of the Rule of the People has failed.

What are you smoking?

The people just made a decision a few months ago and a totally different party took control of congress.
In two years they will speak again and a new President will take office.
The people still rule this country.

If there is a problem with the way this country is run it is because ?the people? don?t pay much attention to what goes on in Washington.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Citrix
the scumbags at gitmo are not soldiers by any fashion.

indeed. most of them are hapless citizens, who committed the crime of being Muslim or Arab in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Which explains why Mr Al Dossary who is from Saudi Arabia and Bahrain was caught in Pakistan, just passing through I guess.
More wonderful information on the letter writer (also from PBS)

According to the FBI, Juma Al Dosari first trained with Al Qaeda at the age of 16. FBI documents show that from that precocious start he went on to have a long career as a jihadi, fighting in various foreign wars on behalf of Muslims, getting arrested abroad a number of times in association with terrorist acts, and eventually arriving in the United States in 1999. His travels came to an abrupt halt in November of 2001, when he was captured near the Pakistan border in Afghanistan and sent to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where he remains today while the Justice Department and the Pentagon discuss whether his case will be handled as a criminal matter in a civilian court or in a military tribunal.

An FBI chronology of Al Dosari's movements -- detailed in a document obtained by The New York Times and FRONTLINE -- begins in 1989, when Al Dosari spent three days in the Al Sadik training camp in Afghanistan.

Six years later, the document shows, he traveled to Zenica, Bosnia, where he spent time with the Muslim jihadi group known as Kateebat. A year later, Al Dosari surfaced in the United Arab Emirates, and stayed with a companion who was planning to fight in the Chechen war. Together, the two traveled to Baku, Azerbaijan, a logical gateway for fighters bound for the guerilla struggle in Chechnya.

In mid-1996, Al Dosari surfaced in Bahrain, and drove with two companions through Saudi Arabia to Kuwait, where he was arrested for suspected involvement in the Khobar Tower bombing, a June 26, 1996 attack on a military housing complex in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia that left 19 American servicemen dead and hundreds injured. He was released by Kuwaiti authorities 11 days later. Shortly after, he was arrested again, this time in Saudi Arabia, for suspicion of involvement in the same bombing and held for seven months. (In June 2001, U.S. authorities indicted 13 Saudis and a Lebanese man in association with the bombing, which was carried out, the indictment states, by Hezbollah under orders from the government of Iran.)

In early 1997, Al Dosari was hired as imam of the Ghaith Ibn Nassim Mosque in Damman, Saudi Arabia. Later that year, he was arrested again by Saudi authorities for unknown reasons. His passport was revoked for five years, but in December of that year, he was granted dual Saudi-Bahrainian citizenship, which would soon allow him to continue his travels with a new passport.

In 1999, Al Dosari, still in Damman, met a man with relatives in Terre Haute, Indiana, and was encouraged to seek a position at the mosque there. He was granted a five-year U.S. tourist visa in Bahrain and flew to Indianapolis via Istanbul and Chicago. Al Dosari visited a number of Indiana mosques, including the Islamic Center at Purdue University, before returning to Saudi Arabia after two months in the U.S.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
For those of you bitching about the detainees not having rights and such, how do you think we should try them?

Civilian Court ala Zacarias Moussaoui? That only took 5 years and $50 million dollars.
Let see? there are about 300 people in Gitmo now, only take us about a billion dollars to try them all at that rate, not a big deal right?

You're right, clearly the only alternative is to hold them without any sort of trial at all while we torture them for information.

No, if you read my first post in this thread I clearly state he should stand trial, and he will once the legal issues involving such trails are figured out.
I think we have take way to long to start these trails myself and 5 years without charges is not right. However, let's do this the right way and not drag these guys into a Federal Court and give them the rights of an American. NEVER in history have we given people who are essentially POWs constitutional rights, why should we do it now?

That's a load of crap. What are these overwhelming "legal issues" that are taking so long to iron out? This isn't complicated, we HAVE a way to deal with these detainees, we're just not using it. And if you read MY post you'll notice I didn't advocate giving them constitutional rights. In fact, I don't see a lot of people making that argument...which leaves me wondering just why you people keep brining it up...

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Freedom isn't free, PJ.

Does this mean you will not complain about the high cost of defense spending?

Maybe.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Gee it?s a shame that this nice guy is sitting in a prison huh? I mean he just tried to recruit people for al Qaeda, a charge he denies of course.

But he does admit to traveling to Buffalo and giving a ?fiery speech? Buffalo is interesting because that is where the Lackawanna Six happen to come from. They too talk about this ?fiery speech? All six members of the Buffalo group pled guilty to charges of "providing support or resources to a foreign terrorist organization

It seems that these men where the ones who pointed the finger at the wonderful Mr. Al Dossary. It is believed that Al Dossary may have helped pay for the six members to travel to Pakistan and Afghanistan for their terrorist training.

Aidanjm you seem to forget, or willingly overlook, the fact that the war against terror is as much psychological and publicity oriented as it is violently oriented. We know for a fact that the guys who committed suicide did so in order to advance their cause, remember they believe they go to heaven for such actions. This guy would write a leter saying he believed in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny if he thought it would further his cause.

If this guy did in fact commit a crime then he should stand trail for that crime. But anyone following this in news knows what a mess that has been. He is not an American and he was picked up in a foreign country. So I don?t think we drag him to the local court and charge him with a crime. That is what the whole bit with military tribunals is about. The government is working on away to try people like this in a legal manner. Until then he will sit in his little cell and wait.

BTW: Aidanjm, how do YOU think we should deal with people like this who incite violence against Americans? I see you are from Australia, tell me how many Aussies were killed in the Bali bombings? You do know that the man considered to be the leader of the group that carried out that attack is also in Gitmo? Riduan Isamuddin, look him up on Wikipedia, nice guy.

Here is what one of Isamuddin?s buddies had to say after being released from jail after serving 25 months in answer to one reporter's question as to what the West and the United States can do to make the world safer, Bashir replied,

"They have to stop fighting Islam. That's impossible because it is sunnatullah [destiny, a law of nature], as Allah has said in the Koran. If they want to have peace, they have to accept to be governed by Islam."

you are way too intelligent to be in AT P&N. Why are you still here?

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
That's a load of crap. What are these overwhelming "legal issues" that are taking so long to iron out? This isn't complicated, we HAVE a way to deal with these detainees, we're just not using it. And if you read MY post you'll notice I didn't advocate giving them constitutional rights. In fact, I don't see a lot of people making that argument...which leaves me wondering just why you people keep brining it up...

I am sorry rain, but re-reading the thread I don?t see your alternative as to how we can handle these guys.

Could you please state your idea on how to try them?

I will agree that they dragged their feet in getting around to setting up a trial system for these guys. But there are legal hurdles, that is what the whole Supreme Court decision was about and what congress passed that law for. To set up a legal system that we can use against ?enemy combatants? without bringing them to American courts and without giving them the same rights of citizens.

I think a legal system similar to the one used by the military should suffice. Give them trials and consul and the like, but limit their ability to file endless appeals. And it is also important that we take steps to protect how we learned the information we are using against them. That is the whole idea behind the ?secret evidence? controversy.

It is important that we give these guys a ?fair? trail, but we can not compromise out security in doing so.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Gee it?s a shame that this nice guy is sitting in a prison huh? I mean he just tried to recruit people for al Qaeda, a charge he denies of course.

But he does admit to traveling to Buffalo and giving a ?fiery speech? Buffalo is interesting because that is where the Lackawanna Six happen to come from. They too talk about this ?fiery speech? All six members of the Buffalo group pled guilty to charges of "providing support or resources to a foreign terrorist organization

It seems that these men where the ones who pointed the finger at the wonderful Mr. Al Dossary. It is believed that Al Dossary may have helped pay for the six members to travel to Pakistan and Afghanistan for their terrorist training.

Aidanjm you seem to forget, or willingly overlook, the fact that the war against terror is as much psychological and publicity oriented as it is violently oriented. We know for a fact that the guys who committed suicide did so in order to advance their cause, remember they believe they go to heaven for such actions. This guy would write a leter saying he believed in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny if he thought it would further his cause.

If this guy did in fact commit a crime then he should stand trail for that crime. But anyone following this in news knows what a mess that has been. He is not an American and he was picked up in a foreign country. So I don?t think we drag him to the local court and charge him with a crime. That is what the whole bit with military tribunals is about. The government is working on away to try people like this in a legal manner. Until then he will sit in his little cell and wait.

BTW: Aidanjm, how do YOU think we should deal with people like this who incite violence against Americans? I see you are from Australia, tell me how many Aussies were killed in the Bali bombings? You do know that the man considered to be the leader of the group that carried out that attack is also in Gitmo? Riduan Isamuddin, look him up on Wikipedia, nice guy.

Here is what one of Isamuddin?s buddies had to say after being released from jail after serving 25 months in answer to one reporter's question as to what the West and the United States can do to make the world safer, Bashir replied,

"They have to stop fighting Islam. That's impossible because it is sunnatullah [destiny, a law of nature], as Allah has said in the Koran. If they want to have peace, they have to accept to be governed by Islam."

you are way too intelligent to be in AT P&N. Why are you still here?

I should put this in my sig

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Pens1566
Still waiting on that conveniently left out "PBS" linkage ........

Now that I posted the PBS linkage I am wondering if Pens will show up in this thread again, or just run and hide.

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Pens1566
Still waiting on that conveniently left out "PBS" linkage ........

Frontline: Chasing the sleeper cell

PBS interview with one of them

Profiles of the members
This one is where my info came from.

PBS profile of Al Dosari, the man who wrote the letter.

A lawyer for one of the men who attended the sessions told The Buffalo News that Juma said the pilgrimage to Mecca would not be enough to save their souls: They must also train for Jihad...
Then, on April 30, the preacher named Juma left Lackawanna. Days later, Derwish and seven of the young men Juma regularly met with traveled to Afghanistan for training in Osama bin Laden's camps...
In interviews with FRONTLINE and The New York Times, FBI officials say this traveling imam was in fact an Al Qaeda recruiter. Currently detained as an enemy combatant and under interrogation at the U.S. Naval Base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, Juma Al Dosari -- a Saudi in his early '30s -- has been nicknamed "The Closer" for the role he played in recruiting the Lackawanna men. His story has given investigators a rare insight into Al Qaeda's recruitment efforts in the U.S., and may lead them to other sleeper cells still hiding here today...

A detailed brief on how they recruit

This profile is an investigative theory based on Indianapolis investigation on Juma Al Doseri activities and is similar to Kamal Derwish's activity noted in Buffalo investigation. This profile details how Kamal Derwish recruited the Buffalo cell members and how Juma AlDoseri was used to recruited individuals to attend training camps.

An Islamic Center is identified/located, UBL Operative attends and over time identifies young Islamic men who are attending the Center for worship and knowledge of Islam. A friendship is developed with each individual and over time, each individual interests, emotional state, strength and weakness are identified. Older members of the Islamic Center are excluded as they would not be likely to accept fundamentalism views and would not be as susceptible to the younger members of the Islamic Center.

The young people are then invited to a location, apartment/house outside the Islamic Center in part to socialize and in part to learn more about Islam. The discussions/meetings usually occur after evening prayers, which would be after 10 pm. to early morning hours, 2-3 am.

The discussions over time would begin to detail historical Muslim conflicts, detailing individuals/heros who have fought for the Muslim faith and had thus, won honor, fame, and for themselves and God.

Individuals would continued to be evaluated as discussions begin to be directed toward a fundamentalism view of Islam. As the meetings progress, the young individuals are told of the suffering of Muslims in the world. That Muslims are being prosecuted and are suffering and how Muslim woman are being raped, tortured, killed; how true Muslims are fighting for the Muslim faith. How Muslims have a duty to fight in Jihad and how martyrdom is justified. The UBL Operative would meet individually with each group member as each group member is given an individual encouragement to pursue his individual duty toward Jihad, and duty to a fundamentalism Islamic belief.

Eventually, the individual members are approached about becoming prepared to defend Muslim beliefs and fight for Jihad. The way to defend Islam is to be prepared and trained to fight all those who would threaten Islam.

You get the point yet? This is a BAD dude and should not be let free to roam the world attracting others to follow jihad.

BTW: How many more PBS links would you like before you believe me?

Hah!!! Try this page from one of the links YOU provided.

Don't think they're quite as dangerous as you or the admin made them out to be!!!

Edit:

Your "BAD DUDE" you use as a crutch isn't even one of the 6. Got anything else to say about the photo-op arrest announcement? If these quys are so dangerous, why did they get off on a plea?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Pens1566
Nice to see that the Lackawanna six is viewed as a legit terror threat. Sort of confirms everyones opinions on your credibility "Prof".

I busted a nut laughing so hard at that one!!

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Pens1566
Hah!!! Try this page from one of the links YOU provided.

Don't think they're quite as dangerous as you or the admin made them out to be!!!

Edit:

Your "BAD DUDE" you use as a crutch isn't even one of the 6. Got anything else to say about the photo-op arrest announcement? If these quys are so dangerous, why did they get off on a plea?

ummmm I stated a few times who the guy who wrote the letter is, go back and re-read my comments.
The letter writer is LINKED to the six, never claimed he was one of them. In fact he is worse than the six. Just read his profile that I posted a link to. The man who wrote this letter is a recruiter for Al Qaeda. His mission was to get people like the six to sign up for Jihad so to speak. Had he never visited Buffalo these guys may have never visited Afghanistan. Now re-read his letter and think about it in terms of someone wanting to recruit others to his battle.
When the letter write first came to Buffalo he spoke of "People were dying on a daily basis and nobody was doing anything about that." And "The Arab world had to wake up and solve this problem," and then told them ?the pilgrimage to Mecca would not be enough to save their souls: They must also train for Jihad.?
Now look at his letter again

At Guantanamo, soldiers have assaulted me, placed me in solitary confinement, threatened to kill me, threatened to kill my daughter and told me I will stay in Cuba for the rest of my life. They have deprived me of sleep, forced me to listen to extremely loud music and shined intense lights in my face. They have placed me in cold rooms for hours without food, drink or the ability to go to the bathroom or wash for prayers. They have wrapped me in the Israeli flag and told me there is a holy war between the Cross and the Star of David on one hand and the Crescent on the other. They have beaten me unconscious?

I never fought, and I never carried a weapon. I like the United States, and I am not an enemy. I have lived in the United States, and I wanted to become a citizen?

If I die, please remember that there was a human being named Jumah at Guantanamo whose beliefs, dignity and humanity were abused. Please remember that there are hundreds of detainees at Guantanamo suffering the same misfortune. They have not been charged with any crimes. They have not been accused of taking any action against the United States.
Show the world the letters I gave you. Let the world read them. Let the world know the agony of the detainees in Cuba.

The whole I am just a poor innocent guy picked up and tortured bit is just another attempt to incite people into wanting to fight against this ?injustice?
He does everything in this letter that he did during his sermons, except he leaves out the call for jihad at the end. You are a fool if you don?t think this letter is being used in Iraq and Afghanistan to recruit others to the jihad.

As for the danger of the six, it seems that once they got there and learned what was going on they became less inclined to get involved. However, the fact remains that all six of them did in fact visit a terrorist training camp. Would they have ever been involved in a terror act? We don't know, the government got them LONG before that could have happened. However, how many people in this country do you think knowingly visited terrorist training camps?

BTW: why are you so fascinated by the photo-op arrest of the six? I thought this thread was about the guy who wrote the letter. The only reason the six came up is because he is associated with them.

 

[Pens1566]

I'm fascinated at the constant use of this case, and others like it, as a "look at all the bad terrists coming to get you" example. When in reality they are no more dangerous than the guy that just robbed the local bank (if that dangerous). Padilla, the guy that was going to bring down the Brooklyn bridge with a torch, the plot to flood the tunnels in NY, etc.. It's all relative to this thread because these are probably the majority of the kind of "terrists" that are in Gitmo. Are there bad people at Gitmo, sure. Will we ever know which ones, no. Because they'll just sit there and never be tried, or they will with hearsay and coerced evidence used against them. It sickens me as an American to see our beliefs and values thrown out the window like this.

 

[Pens1566]

Bumpage for "Professor" of run and hide-ology John

 

[Pens1566]

2nd day of bumpage for "I swear I didn't see that the thread was updated" Prof.

 

[ProfJohn]

umm what are you wanting me to comment on?

The guys from Buffalo admitted their guilt and went to jail.
Maybe they were no more dangerous than the guy who robs a bank, but they still committed a serious crime, and did so knowingly.

The guy who wrote this letter is at Gitmo because he is a recruiter and a fighter who fought in many wars.

The question I have for you that you have not answered is when does someone become a legitimate terror threat? Did we have to wait until Padilla had his bomb ready to go? Or till they guys were trying to board some air planes etc.

On one hand we have people who complain that Bush did not do enough pre 9-11 in response to the vague threats to airplanes and hijackings. On the other we have people who say that every terrorist we have caught was not a real threat. Which one is it?
Do we arrest the Buffalo, Miami and Padillas of the world because they want to blow things up and kill people, or do we wait until after they commit their acts?

BTW: I do not think Padilla was involved with the bridges, he was the guy who wanted to create the dirty bomb and set it off some place. He is also a nut who thought he could separate plutonium by putting it in a bucket and swinging it over his head really fast (centrifuge) Although he could have also had a hand in the bridge thing as well, just dont recall reading that detail.

 

[Pens1566]

They're real threats when they do more than think about doing something. If that was the criteria for proving every crime, there wouldn't be a married man in america not convicted of murder.

As for your BTW. No sh!t padilla wasn't involved in the bridges. In case you didn't notice, I was listing all the BS "plots" we'd disrupted separating with commas. Reading comp FTL.

edit:

I found it amusing waiting 5+ days for some response after YOUR comment about running and hiding.