MasterAndCommander
Diamond Member
What's there to talk about Evolution? Batista, HHH, Randy Orton, and Rick Flair all went their seperate ways years ago 😀
Originally posted by: flexy
Originally posted by: CStan
I have some questions about evolution:
First of all, I can understand certain "adaptations" of organisms to their environment. ie human body no longer creating Vitamin C, since diet changed to include more fruit. Or even something like lizards growing longer legs when they moved to an environment with longer grass.
However, I have trouble believing some more "complex" features of animals could have come to existance from random mutations. Such as: Carnivorous plants that secrete a scent of rotting meat to attract flies. How does this happen? Were there different species of plants before that had other scents that failed, and thus died off? Is this a trait that randomly happened?
Another example are those fish that have a piece of skin in front of their mouths that "bait" fish (looks like a worm). Was this also some freak mutation?
Basically what I'm getting at is: Is their some "intelligent" adaptation that occurs? Can the plant somehow detect (at a genetic level) that flies like rotting meat? Can the fish detect that other fish like worms and adapt their feeding methods by growing this worm?
Hmm, not sure how much sense this makes but I havent taken a biology course in a long time.
well yeah exactly my point (what i wrote above).
And all those "features" *supposedly* made by random mutations, by some cosmic particles hitting DNA and, thus, creating a number of mutations - whereas the fittest feature/mutation is the one which survives ?
(Thats how i understand it...because the "worm-thingy" doesnt grow out of nowhere....and evolution explains it as "adaption"/change...which BASICALLY is initated by random mutation.
other thought:
Evolution basically means evolution from a LESS perfect organism/form to a better one, right ?
So..let's go millions of years back..dinosaurs, or even before. Humans dont even exist. Oh, even further maybe, mammals dont even exist.
Fish in the water, maybe just starting to go on land and later to become mammals.
But how i turn it...at EVERY point in time there were animals/flora...so...would this mean that those early fish/flora etc. were "imperfect" ? (Compared to millions of years later ?)
(I can, however, clearly see the evolution eg. when life started to come out of the water and spread everywhere else...actually a GOOD example FOR evolution)
What was the, say, earliest animals on LAND...if we take those as example..based on "evolution" they couldnt have been "perfect" because it were the earliest ones and there was not much evolution/mutation going on for them to adapt on land.....but then they didnt die out either - RATHER evolved further !
Originally posted by: Iron Woode
this is possibly the dumbest arguement I have ever heard.Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: The Godfather
Do you believe it?
I personally don't know. The idea of a common ancestor (for example: Adam and Eve) is kind of weird. Because if you think about it, when Adam and Eve have kids, who are the kids gonna mate with? Themselves? And even if a brother and a sister are willing to do that, what ensured that they even had a boy and a girl?
I dont believe we came from apes, nor do i believe that some guy in the sky flipped his majic wand and created man.
Personally, IMHO, evolution has too many unexplained gaps that even science cant fill. The fossil record which is our only documentation of whether evolution actually occurred in the past, lacks any transitional forms, and all types appear fully-formed when first present. In other words, there is no proof of any kind of a "missing link".
The evidence that "pre-men" (ape-men) existed is dubious at best. So called pre-man fossils turn out to be those of apes, extinct apes, fully man, or historical frauds. Again, scientific proof, but none of a missing link. But the more we dig, the more we keep finding the same forms over and over again, never anything close to a transitional creature.
There is no adequate explanation for the origin of life from dead chemicals. Even single cell life firms are so complex that man has yet to create a living organism that hasnt already been known.
These are just two examples. There is a study called Darwin's Black Box which scientifically explains those two facts. It is very damning evidence AGAINST evolution.
As far as Adam and Eve go...if you translate the original text from scripture (Hebrew), it clearly leaves open the possibility that Adam and Eve were the FIRST humans created, but certainly not the only. So, that would explain that.
what percentage of life forms get fossilized?
Adam and Eve had 2 sons (male) and one killed the other. Where did we come from then? Or was God creating all kinds of people in some sort of experiment?
Transitional forms have been found for a variety of fauna.
Eveolution has nothing to do with the origins of life.
Originally posted by: The Godfather
Well if we talk about adaptations, take this theory into play:
Africa is hot, dry, warm air. Why do Africans have big noses, big lips, dark skin? I'm sure that there weren't 2 species of humans, 1 white, 1 black. Whites are usually found in northern areas, with cold seasons and wetter air.
I think that a human once found habitat in the African areas, and as time passed by, they started to change. The sun made their skin darker and darker. The air is so dry that your nosdrills have to open up to get more air in. Lips become bigger because of the immense heat. It all makes sense.
Originally posted by: Powermoloch
Evolution is a possibility and a probability.
But I do wonder that alot of animal bones have the same characteristics, and that's not a coincidence.
Not quite. The sun didn't change the people's genes. What happened is: the people with light skin couldn't survive in equatorial regions and died off. Thus, the only people left to breed in those regions were darker-skinned humans. Same with nostrils and lips - it's not that we change based on our environment; it's that genetic anomalies that prove beneficial to human life become selected more often.Originally posted by: The Godfather
Well if we talk about adaptations, take this theory into play:
Africa is hot, dry, warm air. Why do Africans have big noses, big lips, dark skin? I'm sure that there weren't 2 species of humans, 1 white, 1 black. Whites are usually found in northern areas, with cold seasons and wetter air.
I think that a human once found habitat in the African areas, and as time passed by, they started to change. The sun made their skin darker and darker. The air is so dry that your nosdrills have to open up to get more air in. Lips become bigger because of the immense heat. It all makes sense.
Originally posted by: jumpr
Not quite. The sun didn't change the people's genes. What happened is: the people with light skin couldn't survive in equatorial regions and died off. Thus, the only people left to breed in those regions were darker-skinned humans. Same with nostrils and lips - it's not that we change based on our environment; it's that genetic anomalies that prove beneficial to human life become selected more often.Originally posted by: The Godfather
Well if we talk about adaptations, take this theory into play:
Africa is hot, dry, warm air. Why do Africans have big noses, big lips, dark skin? I'm sure that there weren't 2 species of humans, 1 white, 1 black. Whites are usually found in northern areas, with cold seasons and wetter air.
I think that a human once found habitat in the African areas, and as time passed by, they started to change. The sun made their skin darker and darker. The air is so dry that your nosdrills have to open up to get more air in. Lips become bigger because of the immense heat. It all makes sense.
Originally posted by: The Godfather
Well if we talk about adaptations, take this theory into play:
Africa is hot, dry, warm air. Why do Africans have big noses, big lips, dark skin? I'm sure that there weren't 2 species of humans, 1 white, 1 black. Whites are usually found in northern areas, with cold seasons and wetter air.
I think that a human once found habitat in the African areas, and as time passed by, they started to change. The sun made their skin darker and darker. The air is so dry that your nosdrills have to open up to get more air in. Lips become bigger because of the immense heat. It all makes sense.
Originally posted by: Powermoloch
Originally posted by: The Godfather
Well if we talk about adaptations, take this theory into play:
Africa is hot, dry, warm air. Why do Africans have big noses, big lips, dark skin? I'm sure that there weren't 2 species of humans, 1 white, 1 black. Whites are usually found in northern areas, with cold seasons and wetter air.
I think that a human once found habitat in the African areas, and as time passed by, they started to change. The sun made their skin darker and darker. The air is so dry that your nosdrills have to open up to get more air in. Lips become bigger because of the immense heat. It all makes sense.
word of the day
"adaptation"
That only applies to the Alligator snapping turtle.Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: CStan
I have some questions about evolution:
First of all, I can understand certain "adaptations" of organisms to their environment. ie human body no longer creating Vitamin C, since diet changed to include more fruit. Or even something like lizards growing longer legs when they moved to an environment with longer grass.
However, I have trouble believing some more "complex" features of animals could have come to existance from random mutations. Such as: Carnivorous plants that secrete a scent of rotting meat to attract flies. How does this happen? Were there different species of plants before that had other scents that failed, and thus died off? Is this a trait that randomly happened?
Another example are those fish that have a piece of skin in front of their mouths that "bait" fish (looks like a worm). Was this also some freak mutation?
Basically what I'm getting at is: Is their some "intelligent" adaptation that occurs? Can the plant somehow detect (at a genetic level) that flies like rotting meat? Can the fish detect that other fish like worms and adapt their feeding methods by growing this worm?
Hmm, not sure how much sense this makes but I havent taken a biology course in a long time.
It's not that things detect when something happens, it's that those things that do get that occasional adaptation are the ones that go on to survive. Take your example of the plant (isn't it a mushroom?) that gives off the smell of rotten flesh. There could have been other variations of it at some point, but the one that survived is the one that had more organisms come to it and spread its seeds or spores (depending on what it is 🙂).
The same thing for snapping turtles. They aren't particularly fast, but what do they have? I suppose you could describe it as an extra piece of skin in their mouths that looks like a worm. Despite what people want to say that evolution doesn't explain things, it really does.
Originally posted by: shoRunner
Originally posted by: The Godfather
Well if we talk about adaptations, take this theory into play:
Africa is hot, dry, warm air. Why do Africans have big noses, big lips, dark skin? I'm sure that there weren't 2 species of humans, 1 white, 1 black. Whites are usually found in northern areas, with cold seasons and wetter air.
I think that a human once found habitat in the African areas, and as time passed by, they started to change. The sun made their skin darker and darker. The air is so dry that your nosdrills have to open up to get more air in. Lips become bigger because of the immense heat. It all makes sense.
also darker skin absorbs heat and would make them hotter, so why not develope lighter skin with more resistance to sunburn, and bigger lips because of immense heat WTF?? wouldn't darker skin be of use in northern areas to make better use of the absorbing the suns light into heat.
Nothing DETECTS anything. It's just that animals born with a brown coat in a brown environment survive longer and better than animals that are all white. So the brown-coated animals breed with other brown-coated animals (because they're the only ones that survive) and that's how new traits are developed.Originally posted by: CStan
Originally posted by: Powermoloch
Originally posted by: The Godfather
Well if we talk about adaptations, take this theory into play:
Africa is hot, dry, warm air. Why do Africans have big noses, big lips, dark skin? I'm sure that there weren't 2 species of humans, 1 white, 1 black. Whites are usually found in northern areas, with cold seasons and wetter air.
I think that a human once found habitat in the African areas, and as time passed by, they started to change. The sun made their skin darker and darker. The air is so dry that your nosdrills have to open up to get more air in. Lips become bigger because of the immense heat. It all makes sense.
word of the day
"adaptation"
From what I remember from classes, humans came into existance in Africa. So because of their environment there skin got darker noses bigger whatever. Humans expanded into other areas and lost traits and got new traits based on the new diet and weather etc.
What I dont get is radical traits like I mentioned before, like a plant that can give off the smell of rotten meat etc.Even something like camoflage. Does something in animals genetics "detect" what colour the trees are, and over time turns that colour? in addition to brown bugs that blend in with trees, were there pink bugs that died off? or was it not random, and somehow "adapted" to its environment, and knew what colour to turn.
No it doesn't.Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: Iron Woode
this is possibly the dumbest arguement I have ever heard.Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: The Godfather
Do you believe it?
I personally don't know. The idea of a common ancestor (for example: Adam and Eve) is kind of weird. Because if you think about it, when Adam and Eve have kids, who are the kids gonna mate with? Themselves? And even if a brother and a sister are willing to do that, what ensured that they even had a boy and a girl?
I dont believe we came from apes, nor do i believe that some guy in the sky flipped his majic wand and created man.
Personally, IMHO, evolution has too many unexplained gaps that even science cant fill. The fossil record which is our only documentation of whether evolution actually occurred in the past, lacks any transitional forms, and all types appear fully-formed when first present. In other words, there is no proof of any kind of a "missing link".
The evidence that "pre-men" (ape-men) existed is dubious at best. So called pre-man fossils turn out to be those of apes, extinct apes, fully man, or historical frauds. Again, scientific proof, but none of a missing link. But the more we dig, the more we keep finding the same forms over and over again, never anything close to a transitional creature.
There is no adequate explanation for the origin of life from dead chemicals. Even single cell life firms are so complex that man has yet to create a living organism that hasnt already been known.
These are just two examples. There is a study called Darwin's Black Box which scientifically explains those two facts. It is very damning evidence AGAINST evolution.
As far as Adam and Eve go...if you translate the original text from scripture (Hebrew), it clearly leaves open the possibility that Adam and Eve were the FIRST humans created, but certainly not the only. So, that would explain that.
what percentage of life forms get fossilized?
Adam and Eve had 2 sons (male) and one killed the other. Where did we come from then? Or was God creating all kinds of people in some sort of experiment?
Transitional forms have been found for a variety of fauna.
Eveolution has nothing to do with the origins of life.
First off, Adam and Eve had many many children. So bye bye to that argument.
Your question about what percentage of life forms is confusing. You mean, of all life forms what do we have fossils from?
Evolution has EVERYTHING to do with origins of life if you believe it. How can a new Genus and Species come into existance without starting somewhere? Magic? How about creation? nahhhhh ANYTHING but that /sarcasm off
Originally posted by: jumpr
Not quite. The sun didn't change the people's genes. What happened is: the people with light skin couldn't survive in equatorial regions and died off. Thus, the only people left to breed in those regions were darker-skinned humans. Same with nostrils and lips - it's not that we change based on our environment; it's that genetic anomalies that prove beneficial to human life become selected more often.Originally posted by: The Godfather
Well if we talk about adaptations, take this theory into play:
Africa is hot, dry, warm air. Why do Africans have big noses, big lips, dark skin? I'm sure that there weren't 2 species of humans, 1 white, 1 black. Whites are usually found in northern areas, with cold seasons and wetter air.
I think that a human once found habitat in the African areas, and as time passed by, they started to change. The sun made their skin darker and darker. The air is so dry that your nosdrills have to open up to get more air in. Lips become bigger because of the immense heat. It all makes sense.
Originally posted by: CStan
Originally posted by: jumpr
Not quite. The sun didn't change the people's genes. What happened is: the people with light skin couldn't survive in equatorial regions and died off. Thus, the only people left to breed in those regions were darker-skinned humans. Same with nostrils and lips - it's not that we change based on our environment; it's that genetic anomalies that prove beneficial to human life become selected more often.Originally posted by: The Godfather
Well if we talk about adaptations, take this theory into play:
Africa is hot, dry, warm air. Why do Africans have big noses, big lips, dark skin? I'm sure that there weren't 2 species of humans, 1 white, 1 black. Whites are usually found in northern areas, with cold seasons and wetter air.
I think that a human once found habitat in the African areas, and as time passed by, they started to change. The sun made their skin darker and darker. The air is so dry that your nosdrills have to open up to get more air in. Lips become bigger because of the immense heat. It all makes sense.
Hmm, I'm not sure if I agree with that. I'll try to explain by using skin colour as an example.
If you spend time in the sun, you'll get a tan. Tan = more melanin in the skin, to prevent burning (i think). So if a pasty white guy moves to Africa, he'll get burned a lot, but eventually his skin will get used to the exposure and be able to produce more melanin. In one lifetime too. When he has kids, they will be able to produce melanin a lot easier than other pasty white kids. THey have already adapted with one generation. With each generation, they will get darker and darker.
That's how i see it at least. So i think the sun DID change people's genes. THere werent no white people in africa. It was a trait developed along side other traits. No white people died off.
Originally posted by: The Godfather
Originally posted by: shoRunner
Originally posted by: The Godfather
Well if we talk about adaptations, take this theory into play:
Africa is hot, dry, warm air. Why do Africans have big noses, big lips, dark skin? I'm sure that there weren't 2 species of humans, 1 white, 1 black. Whites are usually found in northern areas, with cold seasons and wetter air.
I think that a human once found habitat in the African areas, and as time passed by, they started to change. The sun made their skin darker and darker. The air is so dry that your nosdrills have to open up to get more air in. Lips become bigger because of the immense heat. It all makes sense.
also darker skin absorbs heat and would make them hotter, so why not develope lighter skin with more resistance to sunburn, and bigger lips because of immense heat WTF?? wouldn't darker skin be of use in northern areas to make better use of the absorbing the suns light into heat.
Well obviously not.
Why are African people not so hairy either? They have allmost no hair on their legs, because its not so cold! They also get ashy on their joints and elbows, another fact that supports the theory.
Originally posted by: shoRunner
Originally posted by: The Godfather
Originally posted by: shoRunner
Originally posted by: The Godfather
Well if we talk about adaptations, take this theory into play:
Africa is hot, dry, warm air. Why do Africans have big noses, big lips, dark skin? I'm sure that there weren't 2 species of humans, 1 white, 1 black. Whites are usually found in northern areas, with cold seasons and wetter air.
I think that a human once found habitat in the African areas, and as time passed by, they started to change. The sun made their skin darker and darker. The air is so dry that your nosdrills have to open up to get more air in. Lips become bigger because of the immense heat. It all makes sense.
also darker skin absorbs heat and would make them hotter, so why not develope lighter skin with more resistance to sunburn, and bigger lips because of immense heat WTF?? wouldn't darker skin be of use in northern areas to make better use of the absorbing the suns light into heat.
Well obviously not.
Why are African people not so hairy either? They have allmost no hair on their legs, because its not so cold! They also get ashy on their joints and elbows, another fact that supports the theory.
obviously not what?
most asian people aren't very hairy and and many parts of china and japan are very cold, but african's peoples hair is very dense and i would think it would be very good and insulation if allowed to grow, but i really don't think any human's hair is of any use for insulation purposes.
Originally posted by: shoRunner
Originally posted by: The Godfather
Originally posted by: shoRunner
Originally posted by: The Godfather
Well if we talk about adaptations, take this theory into play:
Africa is hot, dry, warm air. Why do Africans have big noses, big lips, dark skin? I'm sure that there weren't 2 species of humans, 1 white, 1 black. Whites are usually found in northern areas, with cold seasons and wetter air.
I think that a human once found habitat in the African areas, and as time passed by, they started to change. The sun made their skin darker and darker. The air is so dry that your nosdrills have to open up to get more air in. Lips become bigger because of the immense heat. It all makes sense.
also darker skin absorbs heat and would make them hotter, so why not develope lighter skin with more resistance to sunburn, and bigger lips because of immense heat WTF?? wouldn't darker skin be of use in northern areas to make better use of the absorbing the suns light into heat.
Well obviously not.
Why are African people not so hairy either? They have allmost no hair on their legs, because its not so cold! They also get ashy on their joints and elbows, another fact that supports the theory.
obviously not what?
most asian people aren't very hairy and and many parts of china and japan are very cold, but african's peoples hair is very dense and i would think it would be very good and insulation if allowed to grow, but i really don't think any human's hair is of any use for insulation purposes.
Would you prefer a value of 96%?Originally posted by: blackangst1
The concept of 98% similarity between human and chimpanzee DNA frequently advanced by evolutionists is deceptive at best. This similarity is an exaggerated generalisation grounded on the similarity in the amino acid sequences of some 30-40 basic proteins present in man andchimpanzee. The sequence analysis that was made is called "DNA hybridization" On the DNA sequences that are correlated with these proteins, and only those limited number of proteins have been compared. However there are about one hundred thousand genes, and therefore one hundred thousand proteins encoded by these genes in humans. For that reason, there is no scientific basis for claiming that all the genes of man and ape are 98% similar just because of the similarity in 40 out of 100,000 proteins. Sorry, that's science.
Originally posted by: CStan
Originally posted by: shoRunner
Originally posted by: The Godfather
Originally posted by: shoRunner
Originally posted by: The Godfather
Well if we talk about adaptations, take this theory into play:
Africa is hot, dry, warm air. Why do Africans have big noses, big lips, dark skin? I'm sure that there weren't 2 species of humans, 1 white, 1 black. Whites are usually found in northern areas, with cold seasons and wetter air.
I think that a human once found habitat in the African areas, and as time passed by, they started to change. The sun made their skin darker and darker. The air is so dry that your nosdrills have to open up to get more air in. Lips become bigger because of the immense heat. It all makes sense.
also darker skin absorbs heat and would make them hotter, so why not develope lighter skin with more resistance to sunburn, and bigger lips because of immense heat WTF?? wouldn't darker skin be of use in northern areas to make better use of the absorbing the suns light into heat.
Well obviously not.
Why are African people not so hairy either? They have allmost no hair on their legs, because its not so cold! They also get ashy on their joints and elbows, another fact that supports the theory.
obviously not what?
most asian people aren't very hairy and and many parts of china and japan are very cold, but african's peoples hair is very dense and i would think it would be very good and insulation if allowed to grow, but i really don't think any human's hair is of any use for insulation purposes.
probably just left over from when it was. (ie when we were more like apes)
Originally posted by: shoRunner
Originally posted by: The Godfather
Well if we talk about adaptations, take this theory into play:
Africa is hot, dry, warm air. Why do Africans have big noses, big lips, dark skin? I'm sure that there weren't 2 species of humans, 1 white, 1 black. Whites are usually found in northern areas, with cold seasons and wetter air.
I think that a human once found habitat in the African areas, and as time passed by, they started to change. The sun made their skin darker and darker. The air is so dry that your nosdrills have to open up to get more air in. Lips become bigger because of the immense heat. It all makes sense.
also darker skin absorbs heat and would make them hotter, so why not develope lighter skin with more resistance to sunburn, and bigger lips because of immense heat WTF?? wouldn't darker skin be of use in northern areas to make better use of the absorbing the suns light into heat.
altering of the gene responsible for hair colour.Originally posted by: The Godfather
What would be the cause of blonde and red hair?