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Ilmater

Diamond Member
Jun 13, 2002
7,516
1
0
Let me start by saying that I:

- Am closest to a Libertarian, mostly side with Republicans
- Have a father that runs on a Republican ticket

Now, this was long overdue. I don't even care if Rumsfeld wasn't to blame, when things are going that poorly, you have to start fresh.

But could there be a worse replacement than Gates?! He's the #2 person RESPONSIBLE for the mess over there! Rumsfeld had to be basing his opinions on what intelligence Gates' CIA was telling him. If Rumsfeld isn't good enough to stay, then while I wouldn't say they HAVE to get rid of Gates, he sure as sh1t shouldn't be taking his place!!!

This is just terrible. Can't they find SOMEONE with a clue?
 
palehorse

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
here's a thought: give him a chance before you paint him as the "worst possible choice"... it's wacky, I know, but if people like me are willing to do the same with the new Dem congress, then maybe you can see through your blind hatred and give Gates a chance too...

/longshot
 
B

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Eh . . . stay the course is definitely worse.

Gates may have serious baggage but he has the benefit of not CAUSING the problem so he's got a free hand to propose ANY solution . . . including a purposeful exit.

For the record, GOP and GOP supporters (even if they call themselves Libertarians) MISUSED what intelligence was available. Sure some of it was flawed. But basically Bush Leaguers SET the policy and then went looking for intelligence to back them up.

Bush: That woman is a prostitute!
IQ>100: Uh, maybe but that prostitute looks like a cop.

Bush: She's wearing a prostitute's uniform!
IQ>100: Uh, that's how the cops get you . . . but a real prostitute would be in the context of OTHER prostitutes.

Bush: I've seen her before.
IQ>100: Here?

Bush: No, at the police station.
IQ>100: :confused:

Bush: No, seriously and she didn't have a uniform on.
IQ>100: Beat cops wear uniforms; undercover agents don't.

Bush: Well, I want a prostitute and she looks like a prostitute so that's all the evidence I need.
IQ>100: Don't call me when you need bail . . .
 
I

Ilmater

Diamond Member
Jun 13, 2002
7,516
1
0
Originally posted by: palehorse74
here's a thought: give him a chance before you paint him as the "worst possible choice"... it's wacky, I know, but if people like me are willing to do the same with the new Dem congress, then maybe you can see through your blind hatred and give Gates a chance too...

/longshot
Click to expand...
Give him a shot? Why? As I stated above, if you're going to get rid of people that were in charge of a failed operation, don't freaking put the #2 in command in the leader role. Really, they should BOTH be booted out.
 
trenchfoot

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
15,889
8,479
136
Originally posted by: Ilmater
Originally posted by: palehorse74
here's a thought: give him a chance before you paint him as the "worst possible choice"... it's wacky, I know, but if people like me are willing to do the same with the new Dem congress, then maybe you can see through your blind hatred and give Gates a chance too...

/longshot
Click to expand...
Give him a shot? Why? As I stated above, if you're going to get rid of people that were in charge of a failed operation, don't freaking put the #2 in command in the leader role. Really, they should BOTH be booted out.
Click to expand...
it's bush's way of saying to the dems that he's willing to change his shirt but he's not going to change those stinking skid-marked skivvies he's been wearing for the past six years.



 
EagleKeeper

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Rumsfield was going to do it his way and not take advice - that was demonstrated multiple times.

Therefore to not try to convict Gates before he has even tried to impliment anything.
 
trenchfoot

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
15,889
8,479
136
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Rumsfield was going to do it his way and not take advice - that was demonstrated multiple times.

Therefore to not try to convict Gates before he has even tried to impliment anything.
Click to expand...
a good sentiment eagle, and one that makes perfect sense in most cases.

however, bush and cheney is calling all the shots. whatever gates does is a mere reflection of his master's desires. imho, those desires do not include changing their pnac-driven agenda one iota, given their predilection for "staying the course" no matter how much damage it causes.

they'll try a different angle with gates, but only to arrive at the same end result.

 
BoomerD

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,401
14,797
146
Originally posted by: catnap1972
Brownie, FTW :D
Click to expand...

Yeah, Michael "You've done a heckuva job" Brownie was my first thought...followed shortly by Jeb Bush...
I'd have liked to see "Donnie Dynamite " Runsfeld replaced by one of the recently retired generals who have spoken out against the war. IMO, running the military should be left up to military people, with some civilian oversight. Having a civilian who has never served as SecDef just doesn't make good sense to me...this ain't chess they're playing over there...real people get killed when you make bad moves...
 
W

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,549
1,130
126
Originally posted by: BoomerD
Originally posted by: catnap1972
Brownie, FTW :D
Click to expand...

Yeah, Michael "You've done a heckuva job" Brownie was my first thought...followed shortly by Jeb Bush...
I'd have liked to see "Donnie Dynamite " Runsfeld replaced by one of the recently retired generals who have spoken out against the war. IMO, running the military should be left up to military people, with some civilian oversight. Having a civilian who has never served as SecDef just doesn't make good sense to me...this ain't chess they're playing over there...real people get killed when you make bad moves...
Click to expand...

IMHO, this is going to be the start of a wind down in Iraq.

Gates is on the Iraq commission, and the commissions report is said to be very unfavorable of the handling of the Iraq war.

Like I said in another thread. Gates wasnt the first choice. Hes just the first to willingly accept.

Gates served under 5 presidents, including Clinton, hes been called upon many of times. It also doesnt much matter, its not like the Sec of Def has autonoumus control, he has to anwer to the VP, Bush and Rove.
 
Fern

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Eh . . . stay the course is definitely worse.

Gates may have serious baggage but he has the benefit of not CAUSING the problem so he's got a free hand to propose ANY solution . . . including a purposeful exit.

For the record, GOP and GOP supporters (even if they call themselves Libertarians) MISUSED what intelligence was available. Sure some of it was flawed. But basically Bush Leaguers SET the policy and then went looking for intelligence to back them up............
Click to expand...

From what I can tell about intel reports from the CIA etc, they tend to"paint the picture" both ways. I.e., they are so non-commital they can be used to justify positions on both side of the spectrum.

Also, the people in these agencies seem so divided you can always find someone in there to support your point of view, no matter what it is.

I do not believe they are useful as they currently operate/exist.

Fern
 
D

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
4,814
0
71
Originally posted by: Ilmater
Let me start by saying that I:

- Am closest to a Libertarian, mostly side with Republicans
- Have a father that runs on a Republican ticket

Now, this was long overdue. I don't even care if Rumsfeld wasn't to blame, when things are going that poorly, you have to start fresh.

But could there be a worse replacement than Gates?! He's the #2 person RESPONSIBLE for the mess over there! Rumsfeld had to be basing his opinions on what intelligence Gates' CIA was telling him. If Rumsfeld isn't good enough to stay, then while I wouldn't say they HAVE to get rid of Gates, he sure as sh1t shouldn't be taking his place!!!

This is just terrible. Can't they find SOMEONE with a clue?
Click to expand...


Janet Reno
 
Lemon law

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Got mixed feeling about Gates. But we sure don't need an idiolog.

But worse than Rummy----thats easy---Joe Lieberman--and in fact, I posted a thread about its political advantages to GWB---before I knew GWB had already named Gates.

But hands down--Joe Lieberman would make Rummy look almost angelic.
 
Arkaign

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
126
Rush Limbaugh with a bottle of Jack, a bottle of Vicodin, and some latina hookers.
 
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