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Lets make gas 4.00 a gallon and end this mess.

techs

Lifer
Here's an unpopular idea. Lets tax gas up to 4.00 a gallon. And keep it there, by law.
Why?
Notice how opec has ended(for three months) any limitation on pumping oil?
One of the reasons is at the current prices it is now economical to use and develope alternatives. Yet, the constant possiblility of an oil price collapse is stopping the massive investment needed to develope these alternative sources.

In fact if the US started paying 4.00 for gas we would really lower our consumption. And the money would flow into the US treasury rather than the oil exporters. Then we would have the billions to pay off the debt. And the billions to pay for the medicare drug benefit. And we would significantly hurt the incomes of the oil producers which would encourage them to drill more and open the spigots. Ensuring an end to their power and energy self-reliance(or at least far more self-reliance) in America.

And,yes, we would have an economic downturn intitially. But all the energy alternatives are more job intensive than importing oil. Creating jobs here in America eventually making our economy far stronger.

And 4.00 a gallon gas in the US would still be cheaper than almost any other developed country.

For those who ask how American business could compete world wide if oil suddenly started costing so much more, I say we lead a charge world wide to tax the imports of countries that subsidize exports by subisidizing oil costs in their countries. Like China were gasoline is .25 cents a gallon.
 
And use the tax to do what?

If it's not earmarked to help fund alternative sources of energy AND to pay down the deficit, it will only lead to more pork-barrel spending and nothing will be done in the end.
 
Not bad but $4 is not high enough.

Needs to be locked at $10.

Only way to get the rich off their collective asses as they will be the only ones able to afford to drive.
 
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: Dissipate
*yawn* Another tax scheme.

another vote for the status quo.

I don't vote. As for the status quo, gas is already taxed out the ying yang with federal and state excise taxes.

Taxing it to $4.00 a gallon would significantly hurt the economy and poor people would be the first casualties.
 
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: Dissipate
*yawn* Another tax scheme.

another vote for the status quo.



I would have to agree. The market is working fine without any help. Gas consumption is down, oil companies have double their exploration budgets and there has been much activity in the coal/shale to liquids industry.
 
[/quote]Taxing it to $4.00 a gallon would significantly hurt the economy and poor people would be the first casualties.[/quote]

it will not hirt the economy, we will just have alittle bit of inflation. how would it hirt the poor... they ride the bus. if they can afford a car and gas then they are not so poor.
 
Originally posted by: Dissipate

Taxing it to $4.00 a gallon would significantly hurt the economy and poor people would be the first casualties.

Poor people drive??? 😕

If so, where do they go?
 
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: Dissipate
*yawn* Another tax scheme.

another vote for the status quo.



I would have to agree. The market is working fine without any help. Gas consumption is down, oil companies have double their exploration budgets and there has been much activity in the coal/shale to liquids industry.

Market? Market? You have a monoply that fixes prices. The current abnormal situation will shortly return to one where the oil producers will fix the price to get the maximum benefit for themselves while preventing the market from developing alternative sources.
Amazing how people talk about the market when they talk about oil.

 
$4 sounds too low. I'd say we need $5 minimum. It would start cutting usage dramatically...but I wouldn't put the money to Congress to appropriate - they'd just throw in a few more pork barrel projects. Donate it to Hurricane Relief or some other worthwhile charity.

$10 is extreme and inflation would be severe.
 
lets just give up, and throw the cars away. refuse to work or use any oil till they fix the whole damn mess. yes this precious internet, and your satelite tv will go dead, but hey maybe you'll actually go outside and meet your nieghbors. it worked for NYC for a day.
 
Originally posted by: judasmachine
lets just give up, and throw the cars away. refuse to work or use any oil till they fix the whole damn mess. yes this precious internet, and your satelite tv will go dead, but hey maybe you'll actually go outside and meet your nieghbors. it worked for NYC for a day.

So you are the one sending that damn spam all over Usenet about not buying any gas on a particular day or weekend 😀

Nice idea but it'll never fly.
 
Originally posted by: BlueD0T
Taxing it to $4.00 a gallon would significantly hurt the economy and poor people would be the first casualties.[/quote]

it will not hirt the economy, we will just have alittle bit of inflation. how would it hirt the poor... they ride the bus. if they can afford a car and gas then they are not so poor.
[/quote]

It will not hurt the economy? Are you koo-koo? Gas prices affect a huge part of the economy.

It doesn't hurt the poor? Once again, koo-koo. Gas taxes (along with sales taxes) are the most regressive taxes around.

Text
 
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: Dissipate
*yawn* Another tax scheme.

another vote for the status quo.



I would have to agree. The market is working fine without any help. Gas consumption is down, oil companies have double their exploration budgets and there has been much activity in the coal/shale to liquids industry.

Market? Market? You have a monoply that fixes prices. The current abnormal situation will shortly return to one where the oil producers will fix the price to get the maximum benefit for themselves while preventing the market from developing alternative sources.
Amazing how people talk about the market when they talk about oil.



The only problem is that world demand is outstripping production which means opec has lost its means to keep oil cheap enough to prevent alternatives from being developed. I dont see oil going below 35/barrel anytime in the near future and that appears to be a number that coal/shale to liquids can profit at.
 
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: Dissipate
*yawn* Another tax scheme.

another vote for the status quo.



I would have to agree. The market is working fine without any help. Gas consumption is down, oil companies have double their exploration budgets and there has been much activity in the coal/shale to liquids industry.

I agree with you, I think the market is going to take care of it just fine. This latest gas price hike, even if it doesn't make gas TOO expensive, has scared people, I think. They realize that gas prices could easially skyrocket in the right situation, and I think companies (gas, auto, etc) and consumers are really going to start taking this seriously.

Hell, since Katrina and the gas price hike, I've stopped seeing quite so many SUV commercials on TV. In fact, the most common car commercial is for the new 50mpg Civic Hybrid. Can't be a coincidence...we just have to see if this overall change in attitude is longterm or not. But I suspect so, I drive a car that's fairly gas effecient already, and I'll be trying to improve on that when I get a new car. People driving 8mpg tanks are almost certainly having stronger feelings on the issue.
 
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: Dissipate
*yawn* Another tax scheme.
another vote for the status quo.
I know it makes sense to you, but I think you're going to have a hard time selling other people on the idea of sufferring simply for the benefit of alleviating your own anxiety derived from your own ignorance.
 
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: charrison

The only problem is that world demand is outstripping production

Where do you get your information???

OPEC insists the world especially the U.S. is "oversupplied".



There is very little spare capacity in the market.
 
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: charrison

The only problem is that world demand is outstripping production

Where do you get your information???

OPEC insists the world especially the U.S. is "oversupplied".

There is very little spare capacity in the market.

OPEC says that is Refining capacity, not amount of Oil available for refining.

Are you saying you are right and OPEC is lying???
 
Originally posted by: charrison
There is very little spare capacity in the market.

Baloney. OPEC has the capability to release MUCH more oil to the market on a daily basis than they are. OPEC saying "we're at full capacity" is like the gas station owner shutting down half his pumps so he can charge 2x as much at the others.
 
Whether the world supply and the world demand are in any kind of balance is not my argument. There is a monopoly is controlling our economy and our future.
My point is that due to a non-market condition (opec) the price of oil is being set to hinder alternative sources. Even today a long term investment in say, the Canadian tar sands, can't assume 65.00 dollar a barrel oil or any market based price. It has to fear that all the investment could go down the tubes if opec lowers the price just below what it costs to build the refineries. And that is exactly what opec will do.
Also, I am not proposing one cent of the increased tax revenues go for subsidies to alternative sources. I would let the market determine where and what to develope. Which they would if they knew oil would cost a certain amount and their investments couldn't be destroyed by a monoply (opec)
 
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: charrison

The only problem is that world demand is outstripping production

Where do you get your information???

OPEC insists the world especially the U.S. is "oversupplied".

There is very little spare capacity in the market.

OPEC says that is Refining capacity, not amount of Oil available for refining.

Are you saying you are right and OPEC is lying???

Supply is tight, that is not even a question. So when there is political problems or bad weather in the wrong place, the price of oil goes up.

refining issues are a problem for 2 reasons. We lack refining capacity and a significant portion of our refining capacity can only handle sweet crude which is becoming more costly as compared to sour crude.
 
Originally posted by: techs
Whether the world supply and the world demand are in any kind of balance is not my argument. There is a monopoly is controlling our economy and our future.
My point is that due to a non-market condition (opec) the price of oil is being set to hinder alternative sources. Even today a long term investment in say, the Canadian tar sands, can't assume 65.00 dollar a barrel oil or any market based price. It has to fear that all the investment could go down the tubes if opec lowers the price just below what it costs to build the refineries. And that is exactly what opec will do.
Also, I am not proposing one cent of the increased tax revenues go for subsidies to alternative sources. I would let the market determine where and what to develope. Which they would if they knew oil would cost a certain amount and their investments couldn't be destroyed by a monoply (opec)

This is why you start phoney wars like Iraq/Iran.

 
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: judasmachine
lets just give up, and throw the cars away. refuse to work or use any oil till they fix the whole damn mess. yes this precious internet, and your satelite tv will go dead, but hey maybe you'll actually go outside and meet your nieghbors. it worked for NYC for a day.

So you are the one sending that damn spam all over Usenet about not buying any gas on a particular day or weekend 😀

Nice idea but it'll never fly.

well i meant a protracted strike, and not this feely good do nothing crap. 🙂

I also know no one would be willing to do this, and it would have long reaching consequences, but nothing will happen until people sit down (stand up?) and demand it.
 
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