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lets look at the real cost.....820 & 830 vs the 3800+ X2

D

Duvie

Elite Member
The best price 830 P-D combo I could find on pricewatch which came with a nice Asus mobo albeit a microboard was

=$441.00

get a full size board for ppl who need room (i945 neo-f) and you have

=$470.00


Now lets look at the 3800+ X2....

I know bundled with a Neo4-f at mwave.com will cost 461.00 shipped....


That is cheaper!!! Most other components will be equal especially since DDR2 has come down in price....

So the question is how come ppl are saying the P4 is cheaper??? It (according to AT review) beats the 830 in multimedia by 8-10% and gaming by 16-21% for 9 bucks cheaper for comparable full size board or is only <5% more against a micor board setup.....What are you guys smoking???


Now lets look at the 820...the cheapest I could find was with a micro board (same as above) = 343.00

with a full size board = 394 with a supermicro or 413 with an Asus Deluxe i945.....



OK so it is 74.4% the cost of the 3800+ but since the 830 loses by 8-10% in MM and 16-21% in gaming and we can conclude the 830 is an additional 7.1% faster then it would be reasonable to see that it would lose MM by 15-17% and gaming by 23-28%...

figure the cost of the full size board as being only 85% the cost if you want to try your luck with supermicro performance or 90% the cost with quality of Asus, and you can see the AMD is better price perfromance and neglibly more in cost....


If anyone has found a deal where they got the above mentioned Intel P-D systems for cheaper lead me to it.....

As it stands now I am sure I could find a micro board and save another 15 bucks on the AMD system. fact is the 820 is not a better priced system with mobo figured into the cost. Intel fanboys need to stop being a much of morons and get their facts straight. this has been their matra for the last few months and it appears it is not accurate so I wonder what they will cling onto now....
 
Most computer users (unlike us) don't care about performance, they just care about the bottom-line. Not to mention that Intel still retains power over most OEM's and has lots of mass-distribution discounts and deals.

// You didn't mention the power draw of the Intel processors. 😉
 
Originally posted by: Bona Fide
Most computer users (unlike us) don't care about performance, they just care about the bottom-line. Not to mention that Intel still retains power over most OEM's and has lots of mass-distribution discounts and deals.

// You didn't mention the power draw of the Intel processors. 😉
Click to expand...



why beat a lame horse???

I know the OEM factor but I am talking about ppl in here who say they went INtel cause it was cheaper...I am showing in the most part

A) it is not much cheaper
B) it is not a better price performance...

So basically they are punishing AMD because they couldn't build a slow enough cpu to compete with INtel line. I am sorry their process wa snot as lame as to be limited in speed....Iam sorry they didn';t want to put out a single core cpu that is slower then the top cpus from 3 years ago....
 
Originally posted by: Kensai
They just want cheap, not performance.
Click to expand...



Is it actually that much cheaper??? 68 dollars if we compare full size ATX mobos...I know they are not buying micros so lets be honest about that...I know most are buying the Asus i945 mobo and that is actually only 47 dollars cheaper with a 20-30% slower cpu in the 820 and cost 9.00 more for a 10-20% slower cpu....

I guess I AM dealing with the clinically retarded...
 
Of course the X2 is even more favourable if you already have a 939 M/B, as many here do, whereas the poor Intel users NEED to get a new M/B to use the PD.

But anyway, does it really matter? If all we cared about was price we'd be buying 8400's from Dell.

What I don't understand is the 'enthusiast' segment here who insist on justifying their blind allegiance to Intel, regardless of whether they are better, worse, cheaper or more expensive RIGHT NOW. Intelia and Fatty keep banging on about how good Intel WILL be, and I sincerely hope they are right, but for now we need to make decisions on what is currently available, not wishful thinking.

All the evidence that I have seen shows that AMD has around 10% advantage on average for similarly priced CPU's, so it makes sense if you are looking to buy a CPU now to get an AMD. The only real question is single or dual core.

M
 
Not everyone has a Socket 939 board and not everyone bought an Intel system when you worked out your Combo as above. When they bought their systems, they may have been signifcantly cheaper than an AMD system.

Looking at that, until things change then price-wise, Intel doesnt hold that much of an advantage now so that performance margin may tempt a lot more people to take that step up.

Add into the fact that socket 939 should last a good 2 years at least for most anandtechers, AMD seems like the route to go in most general circumstances.
 
I don't know 1/4 about computers as a lot of people on this board, but I do know a fair amount, and I've always been an amd fan because I have built my own computers for the past 8 years, but the next pc I buy will most likely be a dell. Because I expect to be able to get a dual core system from dell for under $500 sometime this year, and I really doubt I could put together an amd dual core system for that price, including a copy of windows. Buying from dell certainly has its drawbacks but I think the value outweighs that.
 
Originally posted by: Duvie
Originally posted by: Kensai
They just want cheap, not performance.
Click to expand...



Is it actually that much cheaper??? 68 dollars if we compare full size ATX mobos...I know they are not buying micros so lets be honest about that...I know most are buying the Asus i945 mobo and that is actually only 47 dollars cheaper with a 20-30% slower cpu in the 820 and cost 9.00 more for a 10-20% slower cpu....

I guess I AM dealing with the clinically retarded...
Click to expand...


Add in the OEM discount and special discount that Intel gives to "Intel only" OEMS... It ends up cheaper.. Take a look at dell. =/
 
YOu are right about the sckt939 Elcs, but IU can tell you from personal epxerience right now I know more who did then didn't....

That aside most of them were early on and we had to buy near 600 dollar 4400's.....So your point is well taken....


Basical the model of their excuse has now flopped over into the not reality anymore.....Since no one can use the upgrade just the cpu claim, I guess all they have is I already own the DDR2...
 
Originally posted by: Kensai
Originally posted by: Duvie
Originally posted by: Kensai
They just want cheap, not performance.
Click to expand...



Is it actually that much cheaper??? 68 dollars if we compare full size ATX mobos...I know they are not buying micros so lets be honest about that...I know most are buying the Asus i945 mobo and that is actually only 47 dollars cheaper with a 20-30% slower cpu in the 820 and cost 9.00 more for a 10-20% slower cpu....

I guess I AM dealing with the clinically retarded...
Click to expand...


Add in the OEM discount and special discount that Intel gives to "Intel only" OEMS... It ends up cheaper.. Take a look at dell. =/
Click to expand...



I am not talking about OEMs...I am talking about ppl in here...DIY builders who will buy per part.....Most in here are techies and only a small amount buy from Dell.....Can I go buy just a cpu and mobo from Dell and assemble myself and still get the discounts?? I dont think so.....

As for 500 dollar dual core systems...I doubt it.....Even if they got a 50% discount you will have to get a crappy mobo less then 512mb of ram and possibly integrated video for that price...have fun with that one....
 
http://www1.us.dell.com/content/product...ured_dds_desktop?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs


1660.00!!! I could kill this system with my sons i am building with a 3800+ for under 1400 easy....if I had to buy a 17" monitorand OS...I have him a dual DVD burner and other cd-rom....He has a GT 6600 which would kill the x600...

I am not seeing the deal...can you imagine without the 575 dollar savings??? What a flippin ripoff...

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/...us&cs=19&kc=6V659&l=en&oc=d91sap&s=dhs

Dell Dimension 9100 Pentium® D Processor 820 with Dual Core Technology (2.80GHz, 800FSB)
Operating System Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
Memory FREE UPGRADE! 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2DIMMs
Keyboard Dell USB Keyboard
Monitors Video Ready w/o Monitor
Video Cards 256MB PCI Express? x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) nVidia GeForce 6800
Hard Drives 160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache?
Floppy Drive and Media Reader No Floppy Drive Included
Mouse Dell® 2-button USB mouse
Network Interface Integrated 10/100 Ethernet
Modem 56K PCI Data Fax Modem
Adobe Software Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 6.0
CD or DVD Drive Dual Drives: 16x DVD+/-RW Drive + 16x DVD-ROM Drive
Sound Card Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
Speakers No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system)
Office Productivity Software No Productivity Suite - Corel WordPerfect® word processor only
Security Software No Security Subscription
Digital Music Musicmatch® Jukebox Basic
Digital Photography Photo Album? SE Basic
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options 2Yr Ltd Warranty, 2Yr At-Home Service, and 2Yr Technical Support
Installation Services No Installation
Internet Access Service 6 Months of America Online Membership Included
Miscellaneous Award Winning Service and Support
Financial Software (Preinstalled) No QuickBooks package selected- Includes limited use trial

Dell 720 Color Printer Qty 1
Free Dell Color Printer 720 Unit Price $0.00
Catalog Number: 29
Module Description Show Details
Dell Color Printer 720 Free Dell Color Printer 720
Hardware Support Services 1Yr Ltd. Warranty- Advance Exchange
TOTAL:$1,258.50


This is more comparable but only comparable in price ad ot perfomrnace....

Also I will be OCing my sons to at least 4800+ X2 levels...i doubt you will have the options on the Dell board...the only way I see this as an advantage is for none compueter literate ppl who want the tech support, and I am not talking about those ppl....those ppl shouldn't fit into the category of the ppl in here who spout the price matra...
 
Originally posted by: Kensai
Personally, I think the AMD X2 is completely superior to the P-D.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:

Only the 840 EE with HT can come close to the 4800+. And clocking the 4800+ up a small bit easily outpaces the 840 EE (which isn't going to be overclocked on air cooling).
 
Actually Frys usually has the 820D paired with a nice Gigabyte board for $349 every couple of weeks. And on the weeks they dont have that they have the 840D with an Asus P5 board for $499.

I spent less than $375 on my 820D and an Abit (AL8)board from Newegg. And it is running 840D speeds on air.

So why not save the extra cash? I used my extra money to get a better video card. It's not like I bought a Celeron 😉

OBTW, I am no moron nor fanboy! You should know that as I used to have numerous AMD systems. Then went the 2.4C rout. Tried the original AMD 64 but it was not up to par for what I was doing (I needed the HT).
 
Originally posted by: orion7144
Actually Frys usually has the 820D paired with a nice Gigabyte board for $349 every couple of weeks. And on the weeks they dont have that they have the 840D with an Asus P5 board for $499.

I spent less than $375 on my 820D and an Abit (AL8)board from Newegg. And it is running 840D speeds on air.

So why not save the extra cash? I used my extra money to get a better video card. It's not like I bought a Celeron 😉

OBTW, I am no moron nor fanboy! You should know that as I used to have numerous AMD systems. Then went the 2.4C rout. Tried the original AMD 64 but it was not up to par for what I was doing (I needed the HT).
Click to expand...



and I can get a 3800+ with a top notch mSI board for 61 bucks....Where else can someone at stock get 20-30% more then stcok 820 for 61 bucks more or less....20-30% in terms of added performance often means a few upgrades of the cpus and that would cost far more then 61 bucks....

3000+ = 140 bucks and for 20-30% you would need a 3700+ to 3800+ which would run you closer to 120-180 dollars more...

Yeah I guess I could save the cash but 60 bucks for 20-30% slower?? no thanks...
 
Originally posted by: Duvie
Originally posted by: orion7144
Actually Frys usually has the 820D paired with a nice Gigabyte board for $349 every couple of weeks. And on the weeks they dont have that they have the 840D with an Asus P5 board for $499.

I spent less than $375 on my 820D and an Abit (AL8)board from Newegg. And it is running 840D speeds on air.

So why not save the extra cash? I used my extra money to get a better video card. It's not like I bought a Celeron 😉

OBTW, I am no moron nor fanboy! You should know that as I used to have numerous AMD systems. Then went the 2.4C rout. Tried the original AMD 64 but it was not up to par for what I was doing (I needed the HT).
Click to expand...



and I can get a 3800+ with a top notch mSI board for 61 bucks....Where else can someone at stock get 20-30% more then stcok 820 for 61 bucks more or less....20-30% in terms of added performance often means a few upgrades of the cpus and that would cost far more then 61 bucks....

3000+ = 140 bucks and for 20-30% you would need a 3700+ to 3800+ which would run you closer to 120-180 dollars more...

Yeah I guess I could save the cash but 60 bucks for 20-30% slower?? no thanks...
Click to expand...


This is what I like friendly disagreements....

But, nowhere have I seen 20-30% difference in bechmarks. Based on these I made a wise decision. Sure some of the games are slower but for my main purpose I'll stick with the D line and save some cash.

And these too even though this uses a 830D I am already ahead of the game.
 
yeah but the 3800 is going to hit 4600 speeds on the stock cooler

the pentium is going to hit what 3.5-3.7 at best on air, its no where near
 
Originally posted by: orion7144
Originally posted by: Duvie
Originally posted by: orion7144
Actually Frys usually has the 820D paired with a nice Gigabyte board for $349 every couple of weeks. And on the weeks they dont have that they have the 840D with an Asus P5 board for $499.

I spent less than $375 on my 820D and an Abit (AL8)board from Newegg. And it is running 840D speeds on air.

So why not save the extra cash? I used my extra money to get a better video card. It's not like I bought a Celeron 😉

OBTW, I am no moron nor fanboy! You should know that as I used to have numerous AMD systems. Then went the 2.4C rout. Tried the original AMD 64 but it was not up to par for what I was doing (I needed the HT).
Click to expand...



and I can get a 3800+ with a top notch mSI board for 61 bucks....Where else can someone at stock get 20-30% more then stcok 820 for 61 bucks more or less....20-30% in terms of added performance often means a few upgrades of the cpus and that would cost far more then 61 bucks....

3000+ = 140 bucks and for 20-30% you would need a 3700+ to 3800+ which would run you closer to 120-180 dollars more...

Yeah I guess I could save the cash but 60 bucks for 20-30% slower?? no thanks...
Click to expand...


This is what I like friendly disagreements....

But, nowhere have I seen 20-30% difference in bechmarks. Based on these I made a wise decision. Sure some of the games are slower but for my main purpose I'll stick with the D line and save some cash.

And these too even though this uses a 830D I am already ahead of the game.
Click to expand...



Oh no non no no no !!!

Dont even go there....

1) Your first link is pointless cause the 20-30% is based on comparison to a 820......YOu dont ve\\have anything lower then an 840 in that review....

2) the second link you point to a synthetic benchmark???


http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2484&p=5

Here is a review comparing a 3800+ directly to 830 with REAL WORLD test....


Oh and as for this link....

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/200508011/athlon_64_x2_3800-07.html#opengl

Dont you think if a 3800+ X2 is within 2-3% of the 840 and to the 820 it represents a ~15% increase in speed it wont be donw there....PLus most will agree you are qouting Toms...Look at his test he ran (resolutions etc...)How can the 3.2ghz 840 let alone the 660 beat the AMD in games when no other sites agree with that...


http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2005q3/athlon64-x2-3800/index.x?pg=4

This pretty much sums it up....

So I have listed 2 credible sites with exactly what I am stating...We know that an 820 versus an 830 represents a 7.1% increase...so if the 830 loses by AST suggests the 820 will be rtight in line with what I stated...
 
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Kensai
Personally, I think the AMD X2 is completely superior to the P-D.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:

Only the 840 EE with HT can come close to the 4800+. And clocking the 4800+ up a small bit easily outpaces the 840 EE (which isn't going to be overclocked on air cooling).
Click to expand...

Exactly. And then you still have to factor in the heat and power requirements of the 840EE, which make it that much more unatractive.

-Kevin
 
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