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Discussion Let's Fix Medicare

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BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
56,054
4,423
126
Lets try and get single payer for health care before we worry too much about single payer for work comp :) I'm not arguing against it just think there are bigger fish to fry.
Such an attempt would not only inflame the various insurance companies...but also the legal profession as well. Work Comp cases make a shit ton of money for lawyers...gawd knows, I've earned them quite a bit myself over the years. I learned pretty early...if you get hurt at work, your first stop should be the doctors' office...your first call...or second stop should be a good work comp attorney. The insurance companies all have batteries of lawyers working for them, trying to reduce their costs/liabilities, by either denying your claim...or by reducing what you're entitled to receive.
 

Chromagnus

Senior member
Feb 28, 2017
255
111
86
Their idea of reducing cost is to happily take your money and then not pay for a service you need. They dgaf how much you have to pay.
This is just flat out not true. If insurance companies pay out less they are required by law to lower premiums. It is mandated that 80% of all premiums charged go to paying medical losses.

Single payer would eliminate them, and reduce costs further by the gov't negotiating with providers and drug/equipment manufacturers.
The gov't could negotiate with drug/equipment manufacturers right now and they choose not to. Unfortunately this is a separate issue from single payer. They negotiate with providers but despite the fact that everyone says they want to negotiate with pharma, no one ever does. For the record they 100% should and I completely agree with you on this. I do think that a single payer system could also reduce costs slightly but the point I am making is that you are overestimating the cost savings of a single payer system. The medical costs in this country are way out of wack and just stripping out the 2-3% profit margin from insurance companies isn't going to make that big of a dent. The cost of care is just too damn high and that is separate from the insurers.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
56,054
4,423
126
It's called L & I in Washington State. It's no bed of roses either. They get to decide what doctors you go to and when you can go back to work.
Yes. i know. I started out in Spokane...and now, after 25 years in CA, live on the WA coast.
 
Nov 8, 2012
18,162
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This is just flat out not true. If insurance companies pay out less they are required by law to lower premiums. It is mandated that 80% of all premiums charged go to paying medical losses.



The gov't could negotiate with drug/equipment manufacturers right now and they choose not to. Unfortunately this is a separate issue from single payer. They negotiate with providers but despite the fact that everyone says they want to negotiate with pharma, no one ever does. For the record they 100% should and I completely agree with you on this. I do think that a single payer system could also reduce costs slightly but the point I am making is that you are overestimating the cost savings of a single payer system. The medical costs in this country are way out of wack and just stripping out the 2-3% profit margin from insurance companies isn't going to make that big of a dent. The cost of care is just too damn high and that is separate from the insurers.
NO NO NO! It's all the evil insurance companies. You know - the ones that are actually TRYING to minimize costs?

The hospitals themselves are holy places - and they wouldn't dare be the actual people that are price gouging and a massive culprit in our shit health care system.... right?
 

Chromagnus

Senior member
Feb 28, 2017
255
111
86
NO NO NO! It's all the evil insurance companies. You know - the ones that are actually TRYING to minimize costs?

The hospitals themselves are holy places - and they wouldn't dare be the actual people that are price gouging and a massive culprit in our shit health care system.... right?
Health insurers aren't exactly blameless either. They've largely gotten complacent and have been slow to innovate. High deductible plans have gotten completely out of control and have been implemented in a way that puts undue burden on the consumer.

I don't think anyone in the system is 100% guilty or guilt free. There are no easy fixes and everything needs to be looked at.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,344
3,013
126
You PAY INTO Medicare with every paycheck...as does your boss, but it's kind of like pre-paying part of your eventual monthly premiums...so that, when you finally retire, you don't have to fork over $500, $1000, or more every month for coverage.

the fact that some people are too stupid to be able to figure that out astonishes me.
I think this is so far the quote of the year 2020.....SWEET!!!
 
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JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,344
3,013
126
Please, point out all those incompetent people who don't realize that the govt. takes $ from each paycheck for Medicare. I honestly don't know where you get such ignorance laced ideas.....

Or maybe you're talking about conservatives who rail against govt. taxes on the one hand and demand that the govt. Keep your hands off my Medicare on the other....you know, like it's free or something.

Meghan54 is on roll today!!
 
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JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,344
3,013
126
Show of hands, how many people here know that Box DD on your W2 shows what your employer took out of your earnings to cover your health insurance?

Put it on the pay stubs.
Some employers do show on pay stubs.....
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
23,372
2,640
136
Hey guys, I know you've been paying 7.65% of your income (plus employer match, for effective tax rate of 15.3%) to Social Security and Medicare for decades, but you're stupid and a socialist if you actually expect to get the benefits you paid for. Because freedumb or some nonsense shit like that.
How could our ATers forget that extra 0.9% additional Medicare tax? Thanks Obama!
 
Nov 8, 2012
18,162
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Hey guys, I know you've been paying 7.65% of your income (plus employer match, for effective tax rate of 15.3%) to Social Security and Medicare for decades, but you're stupid and a socialist if you actually expect to get the benefits you paid for. Because freedumb or some nonsense shit like that.

Did you make sure to spit on the graves of the the poor brown folks that roll over and die prior to receiving such benefits because it's such an idiotic plan that benefits the wealthy and folks that can afford an SSDI lawyer? https://www.nber.org/digest/sep97/w6013.html

But tell me again about how soshulism is so great and Medicare is such an amazing plan.
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
31,578
10,328
146
Did you make sure to spit on the graves of the the poor brown folks that roll over and die prior to receiving such benefits because it's such an idiotic plan that benefits the wealthy and folks that can afford an SSDI lawyer? https://www.nber.org/digest/sep97/w6013.html

But tell me again about how soshulism is so great and Medicare is such an amazing plan.
Careful, you unwittingly pushing for single payer. Either way, insurance of any form is socialist policy.

It seems here you're unhappy with the game being stacked in favor of the wealthy, very interesting.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,344
3,013
126
it's such an idiotic plan that benefits the wealthy and folks that can afford an SSDI lawyer? https://www.nber.org/digest/sep97/w6013.html
Spoken like somebody who knows nothing about how SSDI lawyers work!
99% of all SSDI lawyers charge a percentage of what you initially get from back SSDI wages that are denied until you go to court! My SSWDI lawyer way back when in 2003 charged me 33 1/3 percent of what I gor in back SSDI wages! It took 3 years before it went to court, so he made out alright and I am doing alright!!
 
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JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,344
3,013
126
How could our ATers forget that extra 0.9% additional Medicare tax? Thanks Obama!
As usual you are misrepresenting this tax -- https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/what-is-the-additional-medicare-tax
It probably does not affect you at all.....

You do realize that to be charged the additional 0.9% you need to be making

  • Income Subject to Tax. The tax applies to the amount of wages, self-employment income and railroad retirement (RRTA) compensation that is more than a threshold amount. For more information, go to Questions and Answers for the Additional Medicare Tax.
  • Threshold Amount. Filing status determines the threshold amount. For those who are married and file a joint return, they must combine the wages, compensation or self-employment income of their spouse with their own. The combined total income determines if it is over the threshold for this tax. The threshold amounts are

Filing Status Threshold Amount
Married filing jointly$250,000
Married filing separately$125,000
Single$200,000
Head of household$200,000
Qualifying widow(er) with dependent child$200,000
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,773
8,020
126
Did you make sure to spit on the graves of the the poor brown folks that roll over and die prior to receiving such benefits because it's such an idiotic plan that benefits the wealthy and folks that can afford an SSDI lawyer? https://www.nber.org/digest/sep97/w6013.html

But tell me again about how soshulism is so great and Medicare is such an amazing plan.
Socialism sucks. But it's a lot better than your plan, which is paying a 15.3% income tax your whole working life and then getting jack shit.
 

mistercrabby

Senior member
Mar 9, 2013
963
51
91
Socialism sucks. But it's a lot better than your plan, which is paying a 15.3% income tax your whole working life and then getting jack shit.
I agree, socialism sucks. And I agree that paying into the system for paltry benefits is lousy.

The solution isn’t more of either.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,773
8,020
126
I agree, socialism sucks. And I agree that paying into the system for paltry benefits is lousy.

The solution isn’t more of either.
Perhaps you misread. What I said is that paying into the system for paltry benefits is better than paying into the system for no benefits.
While my solution is to keep useful idiots from helping others steal what I've already paid in. Unless you're offering refunds? Of course not.
You're also keeping me from negotiating for something better than those paltry benefits BTW. This thread being a perfect example.
 
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BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
56,054
4,423
126
I agree, socialism sucks. And I agree that paying into the system for paltry benefits is lousy.

The solution isn’t more of either.
Where do you draw the line on how much socialism is OK?

Taxpayer funded roads? Taxpayer funded libraries? Taxpayer funded police and fire departments?

After all, none of those are specifically spelled out in the Constitution...yet we're all glad to have them.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
23,372
2,640
136
As usual you are misrepresenting this tax -- https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/what-is-the-additional-medicare-tax
It probably does not affect you at all.....

You do realize that to be charged the additional 0.9% you need to be making

  • Income Subject to Tax. The tax applies to the amount of wages, self-employment income and railroad retirement (RRTA) compensation that is more than a threshold amount. For more information, go to Questions and Answers for the Additional Medicare Tax.
  • Threshold Amount. Filing status determines the threshold amount. For those who are married and file a joint return, they must combine the wages, compensation or self-employment income of their spouse with their own. The combined total income determines if it is over the threshold for this tax. The threshold amounts are

Filing Status Threshold Amount
Married filing jointly$250,000
Married filing separately$125,000
Single$200,000
Head of household$200,000
Qualifying widow(er) with dependent child$200,000
Again dude? How do you post here so often and not get at least a gestalt feeling about others' posting style? It was a tongue in cheek quip about how all ATers are rich! That said, fortunately, I do personally pay the additional Medicare tax every year and don't mind it one bit.
 
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bradly1101

Diamond Member
May 5, 2013
4,690
293
126
www.bradlygsmith.org
Let's fix Medicare. Having only recently become eligible for Medicare I was disappointed to find out that after paying for Medicare for my whole working life that I now have to pay $142 (2020) a month to receive Medicare Part B benefits, the benefits you need if you want to be covered if and when you actually go to a doctor. Additionally you have to decide what level of coverage you want by picking from an alphabet soup of plans that vary greatly in benefits and coverage. And then there are penalties for declining Part B and Part D (drug coverage). This entire scheme by our government should constitute as cruel and unusual punishment. It shouldn't be the business of the government to reward Healthcare companies for taking care of it's obligations, nor should millions of Americans whose only income is SS. So what we should do is raise the percentage of a workers paycheck paid for Medicare enough so that when they turn 65 they are completely covered for everything. No additional payments ever. No alphabet soup to pick from. Of course this may also involve establishing strict cost structures for everything including procedures and prescription costs and possibly eliminating the private insurance sector from actually benefiting from Medicare at all (oh the horror). Due note I don't claim to be nearly as smart as all the idiots that instigated this system, but hey, you probably voted for them. Additionally I'm not running for office. Your voice may make a difference.
So much is broken in healthcare from my point of view, I use a lot of it and am on Medicare and SS Disability for an awful injury that occurred in healthcare.

Although I paid into the system for a long time, and SS pay is proportional to the last few years of employment and is more generous since more was paid in, I know for the Medicare tax, depending on the illness, more can go out than what came in, so I understand the need for premiums to continue, and it's automatically deducted (and used for a bunch of other stuff by the government).

To me, besides such sketchy professionalism and fraud in the system, waste is huge. I've always noticed that every facility seems to need to outdo the others in design, and fancy diagnostic machines get replaced often in nice facilities and rarely in all the rest.

That's another problem to me, healthcare's class-based treatment. I've had surgery and a stay (where I got that injury) in a very fancy L.A. 'VIP' hospital where normally actors and basketball players go, and I've been to old, run-down County facilities. At the fancy place a very nice nurse brought the newspaper every morning and sat down for long chats, and at the County facilities I felt like I was in the way and unwanted and mistreated there. I believe there are intolerances in a lot of people, but in healthcare they have a particular kind of control, and with a chronic condition, using healthcare as a tool like that is despicable to me (there is also a lot of religiosity in healthcare, and I don't fit in those boxes).

With all this waste gone, proper funding (incl. wealthy paying more but not getting treated better), and more empathy for people with health issues from healthcare employees, we could have a workable, universal system, but it would require losing the middlemen, profiteering health insurance industry that gets in the way A LOT (like not letting you leave a plan when you desperately need to because of abuse and all the extra costs...).

Healthcare is a service that has become a financially and medically-controlling monster.

The graph below reveals one part of the waste problem I believe.
 

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,752
20,154
136
Spoken like somebody who knows nothing about how SSDI lawyers work!
99% of all SSDI lawyers charge a percentage of what you initially get from back SSDI wages that are denied until you go to court! My SSWDI lawyer way back when in 2003 charged me 33 1/3 percent of what I gor in back SSDI wages! It took 3 years before it went to court, so he made out alright and I am doing alright!!
It really is kind of funny how often someone who calls other people idiots gets basic facts wrong.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,773
8,020
126
Where do you draw the line on how much socialism is OK?

Taxpayer funded roads? Taxpayer funded libraries? Taxpayer funded police and fire departments?

After all, none of those are specifically spelled out in the Constitution...yet we're all glad to have them.
The argument here has nothing to do with socialism. The intent is to raid the OADSI trust fund and revenue streams using the false narrative of "you're stupid if you expect to receive the benefits you paid for." Note that not once do the people pushing that narrative ever propose eliminating the payroll taxes or refunding the trillions upon trillions of dollars from taxpayers that have paid into OADSI but not yet received benefits. That's because they have no intention of doing either.
 
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