Many of the early gods upon which the Biblical deity/deities were derived were were personifications of natural or social forces, something "greater than humans"
Many of the early gods upon which the Biblical deity/deities were derived were were personifications of natural or social forces, something "greater than humans"
People have written far more outlandish things than the Bible. The Bible isn't really that far out. More than anything, it is a collection of stories about human nature. It chronicle the evolution of a nation, from the early nomadic tribal beginnings to later kingdoms. It incorporates many elements from the surrounding nations in almost all of its stories and laws, but also introduces concepts that were unique and different at that time.
You don't have to believe every word, but the Bible has plenty of historical value as well as religious and even literary.
You don't have to believe every word, but the Bible has plenty of historical value as well as religious and even literary.
did beast just have a pathetic epiphany one day? or was he given this idea God must exist since humans are simply unable to create original ideas
If you examine the terminology in the Bible (specifically in genesis), it's entirely possible that Genesis could have been written from a polytheistic viewpoint.
Likewise, the god Yahweh didn't originate with the Hebrews, it originated with the Midianites. It's funny how the OT can be taken completely differently if you examine it in a historical light.
err... a lot of stuff was written down prior to the foundation of the Roman Catholic Church, or the birth of Jeshua from Natzeret.
What makes you believe that concept?
Babies have a wealth of clearly instinctual capabilities. Some simple while others are rather complex. For instance, babies piss when dry, piss when wet, cold, hot there?s no occasion where a kid won?t let loose. But babies never poop in the bath. They develop in the amniotic fluid and typically don?t poop unless stressed. After birth they continue this pattern of behavior.
Another developmental test is to hold a baby up and allow a foot to dangle below a surface. They automatically will lift their foot so that it comes above the surface (like a table top) basically the foundation for being able to walk.
They don?t know what hunger is (philosophical) but they know it is unpleasant. Rooting and suckling are instincts. A baby is born hungry and will come to associate rooting/suckling with getting sustenance which satisfies the hunger as long as someone is available to provide something.
Conceptually, you have to realize that after birth almost all experiences are new. Some responses to stimuli will be pain aversion. Others will provide for some basic need. Regardless, the instincts are certainly there to be curious and to keep doing anything that feels good. Every baby boy plays with Mr. Happy. Nobody teaches Self-Gratification 101 in the newborn nursery and 95% (the other 5% are lying) will play with it for the rest of their lives.
You might be right. I certainly can't prove you are wrong. I can make note that wisdom/understanding/knowledge are ACQUIRED through life and experiences. I assume you mean a higher being gave us logic which is the foundation for the ability to acquire understanding. Clearly, understanding and wisdom are not innate or heritable b/c every parent has watched their child do the same stupid crap they did as a child. So either stupidity can be inherited (ie you know better but your genes compel you to do it anyway) or we are all born ignorant with the innate ability to figure the world out as we go along. I won't rule out the former (GHWB/GWB/the twins) but the latter is certainly more consistent with human experience.
UNCjigga
Lifer
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I believe Moonbeam was just relating a personal astral body projection experience in response to my post about Jain beliefs. I for one am Jain, but the closest I've ever come to 'astral body projection' is perhaps a recurring OOBE (out of body experience) where I wake up with my face an inch from the ceiling and as I regain consciousness I feel myself gently falling back to my body.Originally posted by: dparker
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
How did Einstien imagine relativity or doubt Heisenberg.
uncJIGGA, thanks for the interesting stuff on Jains. I knew and old man who fought in ww2 and saw terrible stuff that maybe put him a bit around the bend. I was doing some work with addresses and started picturing the actual houses out of boordom. He was around a corner behind some cases and suddenly came roaring around the corner demanding to know what I was doing, that he saw pictures comming off of me. That kind of freaked me out, but after I got to know him better he told me that one day he was watching a bird fly by and all of a sudden he was the bird. He could see everything just as if he were looking out of it's eyes. He told me that later on he began to leave his body at different moments, like when he was sitting in church, he would fly right out the window and be able to look around. He said that one time he did that and it was raining and when he came back there were raindrops on his shirt. He told me that one time he met somebody out there somewhere and they asked him if he was one of them. He said it scared the crap out of him because he didn't know who one of them was.
Lol. WTF are you talking about?
uncJIGGA, I hope you saw my response to dparker. It's back there a bit. There are a number of people with books that teach how to go wherever you want once your out of body. Sounds like the Jians already know. I heard the whole thing described on Art Bell one night and told somebody dear to me about it all excited. When I got to the part about the wirring sound she interrupted me and finished up, yea yea the roaring wind sound and the pressure on your chest. Of course that was going to be my nest words. She said it happens to her somewhat frequently and of course scares the hell out of her. She doesn't leave though because of the fear. It happens to people with fevers alot too which is how it happened to me. I felt a dimensional change like I was becomming huge like an elephant.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
For the countenance of great virtue,
only the Way is to be followed.
As a thing, the Way is abstract and elusive:
elusive and abstract, yet there are images in it;abstract and elusive, yet there is something there.
Hard to understand and elusive, it has vitality therein:
that vitality is very real;
it has a truth therein.
From ancient times until now,
its name is the undeparting;
thereby are seen all beauties.
How do I know beauty is real?
By the Way.
Something undifferentiated was there before heaven and earth;
still and silent, standing alone and unchanging,
going through cycles unending,
able to be the mother to the universe.
I do not know its name;
I label it the Way.
Imposing on it a name, I call it Great.
The Way is not able to be named.
Though simplicity is small,
the universe cannot subordinate it.
The way is so plain as to be flavorless.
When you look at it, it is invisible.
[Yet by it you see everything else].
When you listen to it, it is inaudible
[Yet by it you hear everything else]
When you walk in it, it cannot be exhausted
The world has a beginning that is the mother of the world.
Once you've found the mother,
thereby you know the child.
Once you know the child,
thereby you return to keep the mother.
Thus not perishing though the body die.
Using the shining radiance, you return again to the light.
This is called entering the eternal.
Lao Tse, Tao Te Ching, circa 500 BC
Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear.
Jesus of Nazareth, circa 30 AD
only the Way is to be followed.
As a thing, the Way is abstract and elusive:
elusive and abstract, yet there are images in it;abstract and elusive, yet there is something there.
Hard to understand and elusive, it has vitality therein:
that vitality is very real;
it has a truth therein.
From ancient times until now,
its name is the undeparting;
thereby are seen all beauties.
How do I know beauty is real?
By the Way.
Something undifferentiated was there before heaven and earth;
still and silent, standing alone and unchanging,
going through cycles unending,
able to be the mother to the universe.
I do not know its name;
I label it the Way.
Imposing on it a name, I call it Great.
The Way is not able to be named.
Though simplicity is small,
the universe cannot subordinate it.
The way is so plain as to be flavorless.
When you look at it, it is invisible.
[Yet by it you see everything else].
When you listen to it, it is inaudible
[Yet by it you hear everything else]
When you walk in it, it cannot be exhausted
The world has a beginning that is the mother of the world.
Once you've found the mother,
thereby you know the child.
Once you know the child,
thereby you return to keep the mother.
Thus not perishing though the body die.
Using the shining radiance, you return again to the light.
This is called entering the eternal.
Lao Tse, Tao Te Ching, circa 500 BC
Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear.
Jesus of Nazareth, circa 30 AD
That's a great book! Full of factual evidence from historical events and people. It was written by an atheist jounalist who wanted to know more about Jesus and wanted to hear from experts in the subject.
If you had even taken a highschool course in psychology you would know that there are quite a few instincts in infants.. including the suckling relfex. Have you heard of the grasp reflex or the spinchter reflex to name a few?
I know this has already been said..but.. is it not obvious that Roman mythology had to be thought up? These gods obviously don't exist because Christianity says so..because of this the HAD to be created in SOMEONE's mind.. this proves that the human mind can create the idea of a 'greater being'.
You tried to bounce it off and I think it stuck instead. Dang this sticky mind of mine, I should stop handling sweet objects.
The idea that all learning is gained by "teaching" or purely external factors ignores our own deterministic biological drives as well as real phenomena like language development, reflexes, attachment, gender attraction and segragation and oodles of other fun things biologically determined.
It is the interplay, not a single thing. I've decided to stay out of true participation in religion threads here until the end of the year so let others answer the rest.
Athanasius,
Moonie, the heart has reasons which reason knows not of.
Earth's crammed with heaven, and every lowly bush afire with God. Those who take their shoes off see, the rest walk around... and daub their natural faces unaware, more and more from first similitude.
Cheers !
The idea that all learning is gained by "teaching" or purely external factors ignores our own deterministic biological drives as well as real phenomena like language development, reflexes, attachment, gender attraction and segragation and oodles of other fun things biologically determined.
It is the interplay, not a single thing. I've decided to stay out of true participation in religion threads here until the end of the year so let others answer the rest.
Athanasius,
Moonie, the heart has reasons which reason knows not of.
Earth's crammed with heaven, and every lowly bush afire with God. Those who take their shoes off see, the rest walk around... and daub their natural faces unaware, more and more from first similitude.
Cheers !
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