Lenovo - New or Refurbished?

[alimoalem]

Hi everyone, sorry for dedicating a single thread to a small question.

Anyway, I spoke to a CSR about this. I asked if a Refurbished laptop can have any scratches/blemishes/etc. and she said a Refurbished laptop is a brand new laptop that was shipped out and returned unopened. This sounds like Redistributed and NOT Refurbished but I didn't want to argue so I thanked her and hung up.

Lenovo writes about Refurbished:
Refurbished Outlet notebooks meet the following criteria:
Notebook was returned with the factory seal broken.
Notebook may or may not have been turned on.
Notebook may or may not have been used.

It doesn't make any mention of physical deformations, etc. (like scratches, blemishes). Do the Refurbished notebooks look new? Dell at least states that their Refurbished laptops may have minor scratches/blemishes. Should I assume the same of Lenovo?

Thanks all.


EDIT: Bought a T400 new. I no longer need an answer, but you're free to answer for anyone else that may be curious.

 

[LS21]

ive never bought refurb anything that had noticeable physical deformation.

 

[Farmer]

Well I guess I'm now in the boat you just got out of.

From the outlet site:

"Notebooks and Desktops that meet original factory specifications through retests. Repackaged.

Refurbished Outlet Notebooks and Desktops meet the following criteria:
Customer did not turn on or fully boot Notebook or Desktop. Customer may have turned Notebook or Desktop on. Customer may have used Notebook or Desktop. All Notebooks and Desktops are fully tested to original factory specifications and carry a limited Warranty. "

My three-year old X60s recently died due to corrosion on the motherboard from apparent water damage. Lenovo considers this spill/accidental damage and hence it's not covered under my warranty. I was informed the bill was $750 for a new board, so I told them to forget about it.

Prior to the incident I loved my X60s, and service was definitely good (I just should've bought a better warranty). I was considering a T400 as a replacement until I happened upon the Lenovo Outlet refurbished, and have the same question as the OP regarding how good Lenovo refurbished/redirected is, directed at those with experience.

Also, does the IBM Employee purchase discount apply for outlet purchases?

 

[Parasitic]

If you bought it directly from the manufacturer, I would assume you'd get one that looks brand new and is for all intents and purposes brand new. I've bought refurbs directly from Apple and Dell before and aside from a refurbished sticker (on my old Dell XPS M1330), a brown box (Apple), or a reassigned serial number (Apple), everything looked new and worked fine out of the box.

 

[Athena]

IMHO, "New" is overrated. The refurbished channels exist because, unlike retail establishments, manufacturers cannot resell equipment that has been sold previously as "new" -- even if the box was never opened. Manufacturers go to great lengths to ensure that refurbished units are "as good as new" and most offer the same warranties.

Originally posted by: Farmer
Also, does the IBM Employee purchase discount apply for outlet purchases?

Contact Lenovo sales about that.

 

[corkyg]

Also, factory refurbs are 100% tested all the way. "New" items may be lot tested - and that is why we have refurbs.

 

[Farmer]

Some info from Lenovo:

1.) Warranties/protection programs can be bought as normal for refurb/redist/new items bought from outlet
2.) Win7 upgrade applies as per normal rules
3.) IBM EPP does not apply

So retail w/ EPP configured the way I want and refurb (not redistributed) for a as similar laptop as I can get will net me savings on the order of $30-$90. The refurb laptop has better specs (lot of expensive options I wouldn't have considered at retail like a 6meg cache CPU and a DVD burner which I would almost never use), but some details aren't clear from the description (like, is the RAM on 2 sticks or on 1 stick). This is a T500.

Anyway, should I go for refurb?

 

[Athena]

Originally posted by: Farmer

2.) Win7 upgrade applies as per normal rules

Be careful here. A refurb comes with the original OS license. That means that there are no machines in any outlets yet that include the upgrade option. If you want that, you will have to wait until machines sold after June 26 are returned and show up in the Outlet (or order the upgrade now from another vendor). At that point, the licenses information should say that it includes the Windows 7 upgrade option. If you have any questions about that, get them answered in writing from the Outlet.

With that caveat...yes, go for the Outlet.

 

[Farmer]

Hmm, I am now actually considering a similar Dell system from the Dell Outlet. They seem to indicate on their site that refurb items purchased now will qualify for the Win 7 upgrade.

I'll see tomorrow if I roll the die or not with refurb. The refurb systems are definitely nicer spec-wise, but I'm wondering if it's worth the possible headaches.

 

[Athena]

They seem to indicate on their site that refurb items purchased now will qualify for the Win 7 upgrade.

Yes, it does say that. Print out the pages and keep them close if you buy a system.

The refurb systems are definitely nicer spec-wise, but I'm wondering if it's worth the possible headaches.

What do you mean by this? What kind of headaches are you anticipating. I have bought many, many systems from the outlet only one had any kind of issue on delivery -- a problem that was fixed with next-day, on-site service. And of course you get a 3-week return option: just call them and they will send a return shipping label.

Unless you absolutely have to have a new machine today, you would be better off waiting for a Dell Business Outlet coupon. You'll save another 15% during coupon promotions.

 

[Farmer]

Just from horror stories I read online. But I guess there are horror stories associated with anything.

As of right now I'm away from home, and since my X60 crapped out, I'm without a computer except at work. How frequently do these coupons come out? Last one I've read about was in January/February? I don't know if I should endure another month and a half without a personal-use computer to save ~$150.

I'm not sure how the pricing is set up on the Dell Outlet? It seems like sometimes comparable machines have significant price differences. Is this an indication of quality? Also, are all refurb items sold as is or can I request some upgrade part, like a Bluetooth transceiver.

 

[Athena]

Originally posted by: Farmer
As of right now I'm away from home, and since my X60 crapped out, I'm without a computer except at work. How frequently do these coupons come out?

I'd say about once or month or so. I received a Home Outlet coupon just last week and I've been expecting one for the Business Outlet soon. Dell's fiscal year ends this month so we should be seeing a lot of deals in the next couple weeks.

I'm not sure how the pricing is set up on the Dell Outlet? It seems like sometimes comparable machines have significant price differences. Is this an indication of quality? Also, are all refurb items sold as is or can I request some upgrade part, like a Bluetooth transceiver.

If you at carefully at all of the details for each machine, you should be able to tell why the prices vary. Scratch and Dent models (which usually involve tiny defects) do include an extra discount over Refurbished or Ordered as New but AFAIK, there's no "quality" differential within types. If you want to know what the ordering options are for a machine, put it in your cart and see what's available. For most laptops, you can include a Bluetooth card if the machine doesn't have it and an extra battery too.

The bottom line is that, if you can find a configuration that fits your needs, an Outlet machine is almost always the best value for your money. I don't know what kind of hassles you've read about but I've never known of a major problem with a refurb bought directly from any major manufacturer.

 

[Farmer]

Thanks for your informative responses Athena. I just subscribed for the Dell Outlet Business email newsletter. I'm assuming this is where you receive your coupons?

I was referring to price differences within the set of refurbished items, sorry I didn't clarify. Sometimes the differences in features don't seem to account for the difference in price, but that may just be my perception.

Is it possible to buy upgrade warranties after the fact (i.e., not at checkout, but upon reception)? Oddly, after adding a system with no listed Bluetooth capability, Dell gives me the option to purchase Bluetooth devices, but not a the Bluetooth transceiver itself.

The story I was referring to was a posting on another forum of someone ordering a refurb item from Dell Outlet, but receiving a lease-return item that was dead on arrival (and the following lack of customer service).

 

[Athena]

Originally posted by: Farmer
I was referring to price differences within the set of refurbished items, sorry I didn't clarify. Sometimes the differences in features don't seem to account for the difference in price, but that may just be my perception.

Since we don't know which models you are considering, it's difficult to know what might be going on. I do know that the special colored series (Regal Red, Regatta Blue) seem to carry some sort of premium.

Is it possible to buy upgrade warranties after the fact (i.e., not at checkout, but upon reception)? Oddly, after adding a system with no listed Bluetooth capability, Dell gives me the option to purchase Bluetooth devices, but not a the Bluetooth transceiver itself.

Yes, you can upgrade the warranty anytime before the existing one expires. If you wait even a day later though, your warranty options are gone. If the machine is available with Bluetooth as an option, you should be able to order a card to install yourself with the Outlet machine. If it doesn't show up in the additional items list, call the Outlet and ask them why,

The story I was referring to was a posting on another forum of someone ordering a refurb item from Dell Outlet, but receiving a lease-return item that was dead on arrival (and the following lack of customer service).

Off-Lease machines are sold through Dell Financing, which is a different business unit from the Outlet. Even though there is a check box for DFS in the Outlet filter, the machines shouldn't show up in the filter results (clear that box if you want to avoid all chance of seeing them). If you want an off-lease machine, you have to click the link there and go to their separate site.

The standard Dell lease is 3-years; which is the same as the standard warranty. So unless the leasee terminates early, off-lease machines do not have any remaining warranty period. DFS does have a 100-day limited warranty that is not at all the same as the standard warranties sold with new or refurbished machines. It's really only useful for very minor hardware issues (e.g. a modem or power adapter). In any case, I think any DOA equipment should be returned immediately. To do otherwise just invites "hassle". The seller may prefer to try to have it fixed on site but it's rarely worth it for the buyer. If the seller won't issue a pre-paid label, get an RMA, box it up and return it at your own expense and dispute the extra charge later. Never, ever keep something that doesn't work right out of the box.

Note: Off lease machines do have their uses (I frequently buy off-lease desktops through Dell Auctions) but they are not at all the same as Outlet refurbs.

 

[Farmer]

The story claimed that an order was placed for a refurbished item, but that item was apparently a lease-return item mistakenly labeled as a refurb item. Do you work for Dell by any chance, Athena?

 

[Athena]

Off-Lease machines are refurbs in that they are supposed to be fully tested before shipping ..but they are not "same as new" units sold through the Outlet.

In any case, I can't muster much sympathy for someone who does not immediately return a DOA item -- whether from Dell, eBay, or a retailer. Anyone who thinks that he can save money by dealing with is rightfully the seller's problem, obviously doesn't have enough work to do.

No, I don't work for Dell at all. It's just that having purchased so many machines from them on behalf of clients, I have been obliged to learn a lot about their distribution channels.

 

[Farmer]

Ok, well I'll see what shape my Thinkpad returning to me is. If it's still dead, I think I'll go with the Dell Outlet. Thanks for all your help.

 

[Parasitic]

Originally posted by: Farmer
Ok, well I'll see what shape my Thinkpad returning to me is. If it's still dead, I think I'll go with the Dell Outlet. Thanks for all your help.

Dell Outlet ships fast if they have the item you want in stock. I ordered a Vostro 1320 with 2.4GHz C2D, 9-cell battery, 250GB 7200rpm hard drive, 3GB RAM and a 9400M GS 256MB for $670 yesterday afternoon and they shipped it out this morning.

 

[Farmer]

Originally posted by: Parasitic

Originally posted by: Farmer
Ok, well I'll see what shape my Thinkpad returning to me is. If it's still dead, I think I'll go with the Dell Outlet. Thanks for all your help.

Dell Outlet ships fast if they have the item you want in stock. I ordered a Vostro 1320 with 2.4GHz C2D, 9-cell battery, 250GB 7200rpm hard drive, 3GB RAM and a 9400M GS 256MB for $670 yesterday afternoon and they shipped it out this morning.

That's a great deal you got!

I purchased an M4400 earlier and it's already marked as shipped. I don't have the tracking info yet.

 

[Parasitic]

Originally posted by: Farmer

Originally posted by: Parasitic

Originally posted by: Farmer
Ok, well I'll see what shape my Thinkpad returning to me is. If it's still dead, I think I'll go with the Dell Outlet. Thanks for all your help.

Dell Outlet ships fast if they have the item you want in stock. I ordered a Vostro 1320 with 2.4GHz C2D, 9-cell battery, 250GB 7200rpm hard drive, 3GB RAM and a 9400M GS 256MB for $670 yesterday afternoon and they shipped it out this morning.

That's a great deal you got!

I purchased an M4400 earlier and it's already marked as shipped. I don't have the tracking info yet.

Yea, I originally really wanted a Latitude E6400 because you could get them equipped with LED screens and a 2.93GHz C2D, but I could never manage to find a refurb model with an extended battery.

That and there's always the lingering thought that a Latitude coupon is always just around the corner, so I guess I could wait another year or so for a big and major upgrade.

 

[Farmer]

Well, I received my M4400 today. Everything seems to be okay at first glance, I checked that I got what I ordered. No major cosmetic blemishes, so I'm happy in that department. Just kinda dirty, looks like it probably was used for a few months. The computer is a lot snappier (it should be, it's 3 years newer) than my old Thinkpad, quick boot and quick shutdown. I'm glad I went with the 1440x900 screen.

I'm actually a little disappointed about the build quality coming from the Thinkpad. I was hoping it'd be on par with the Thinkpad, but it feels rather flimsy compared to the old one. I also have difficulty telling magnesium from plastic, if that makes sense.

Gripes so far: I don't like how the latch opens, and the trackpoint takes a little getting used to coming from a Thinkpad.

 

[Athena]

Originally posted by: Farmer
Just kinda dirty, looks like it probably was used for a few months. The computer is a lot snappier (it should be, it's 3 years newer) than my old Thinkpad, quick boot and quick shutdown. I'm glad I went with the 1440x900 screen.

Dell's return period for new machines is 21-30 days so it's unusual that a machine would be "dirty" when reshipped. In any case, if you find that you don't really like the machine, return it.

 

[Farmer]

Certain things, like the white port labels, were faded away, something you don't usually see in a month's use. It was missing a screw (something I didn't notice until I went in to install a Bluetooth card), and there was also some gunk on the lid that needed to be scraped off.

Otherwise, the system is essentially new, and I like it. The screen, an LED-lit WSXGA, is absolutely brilliant. I don't use the touchpad, the trackpoint is so-so, but the keyboard seems to be okay.

The chassis is definitely not as well conceived as that of the Thinkpad (particularly the screen latch, and though the hinges are metal and look sturdy, the screen doesn't move as smoothly as it did on the Thinkpad, and cannot fold flat). But the case is definitely more accessible for use-maintenance.

 

[Parasitic]

Got my Vostro 1320 today. Aside from some scuff marks on the screen bezel and a smude on the glossy screen, can't tell that it's not brand new. It's a little bigger and heftier than I imagined though.