Lenovo Marketing vs AMD marketing - maybe things will get better after all

[Qianglong]

The recent downsizing at AMD seems to be targeted towards PR/Marketing to clean house and start afresh.

If you look at Lenovo's marketing efforts in the consumer and business space they have been fantastic, extremely aggressive and credited toward's lenovo's resurgence to become the number 2 in the PC industry:

http://www.cioinsight.com/c/a/Latest-News/Lenovo-CEO-We-Will-Be-the-Worlds-Top-PC-Maker-160661/

"Gartner analysts attributed Lenovo s surge to a new joint venture with NEC in Japan and the vendor s aggressive marketing to both corporate and consumer PC markets."

One of Lenovo's recent kick-ass marketing video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRCfo-eTj8k

So I have a feeling that things will get better at AMD in the long run!

 

[frozentundra123456]

I would not rule out things getting better at AMD, and good marketing always helps. However, AMD has more problems than simply marketing, like a flagship chip that is a disappointment, lack of competitiveness except in the low end, and serious issues with GF 32nm process when intel is almost ready to bring 22 nm to market.

Marketing becomes much easier when you have a competitive product, which Lenovo's computers are. AMD CPUs, not so much, except maybe fusion in mobile devices.

 

[Qianglong]

I would not rule out things getting better at AMD, and good marketing always helps. However, AMD has more problems than simply marketing, like a flagship chip that is a disappointment, lack of competitiveness except in the low end, and serious issues with GF 32nm process when intel is almost ready to bring 22 nm to market.

Marketing becomes much easier when you have a competitive product, which Lenovo's computers are. AMD CPUs, not so much, except maybe fusion in mobile devices.

This is true but AMD's marketing efforts can be improved in areas where they are competitive such a discrete GPUs etc.

 

[cbn]

This is true but AMD's marketing efforts can be improved in areas where they are competitive such a discrete GPUs etc.

How do you feel about this?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=32525984&postcount=28

In theory this likely was an excellent idea, but the small die strategy clearly didn't result in a more profitable AMD as was originally thought. By pricing AMD's high-end GPUs so low ($299-379), AMD was now forced to lower the price for all other segments below that.

Recall: X800Pro vs. 6800GT - $399: Battle of the Mid-High End
$540 X800XT PE vs. 6800U: Battle of High-End

^ Now, the "equivalent" of the X800Pro (then a mid-high end card at $399) is the HD5850 that sold for $269 and HD6950 2GB that had an MSRP of $299 but now that sells for $230-240. Wow! Giving up so much profitability.

Now, 9800XT, X800XT/XT PE, X1800XT, X1900XT/X, X1950XT/X, were all high-end chips that sold for $500-650.

Quick Case Study from a Business (not Gamer's) Perspective: Did the Small Die Strategy Actually help ATI/AMD's GPU division to improve profitability?

9800XT ($499) = RV360/380 dies size = 210-mm^2 (best I could find)
X800XT ($499), X800XT PE ($549) = 257-260 mm^2
X1800XT ($549-599) = 263 mm^2
X1900XT ($549), X1900XTX ($649) = 314.5 mm^2

vs.

HD2900XT = performance was a let down (so no point in even discussing this card)
HD3870 = 192 mm^2 (performance was a let down, and prices had to be lowered). Die size very close to a $500 9800XT
HD4870 ($299) = 256 mm^2 (priced at almost half of X800XT/X1800XT despite similar die size!! failed)
HD5870 ($350) = 334 mm^2 (failed at achieving a small die)
HD6970 ($370) = 389 mm^2 (failed at achieving a small die)

AMD's Cypress/Cayman chips are not small by AMD's historical standards and yet were priced significantly lower.

AMD's Evergreen (HD4000) series was similar to historical die sizes, but was sold for half of what ATI would normally sell its GPUs.

So basically ATI's small die strategy under AMD has actually resulted in: "Larger die sizes, and lower profitability due to lower Average Selling Prices, while eroding ATI's brand value on the high-end by conditioning high-end gamers to pay $300-350 for a high-end AMD GPU, not $500-600"

If I were to take my "gamer"/"hardware enthusiast hat" off for a second and critiqued AMD's GPU small die strategy/new GPU price positioning -- they are now basically selling just as expensive to manufacture GPUs as ATI did in the past, but selling them for nearly half the price!! I would call it a HUGE fail.

AMD is selling 2x HD6970 (389mm^2 dies) in the form of an HD6990 for $700 today, and yet X1950XTX with a smaller die size sold for $649.

Keep this strategy up long enough and you'll be going out of business.

 

[mosox]

they are now basically selling just as expensive to manufacture GPUs as ATI did in the past, but selling them for nearly half the price!! I would call it a HUGE fail.

So, he as a consumer is not happy with the fact that ATI/AMD got him cheap powerful cards and forced Nvidia to do the same?

That's the free market at work as opposed to monopolies/cartels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel

They won't be going out of business I now Nvidia hates them for this but that's the competition, baby.

 

[-Slacker-]

Sniphttp://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=32525984&postcount=28

Don't really want to go off topic here, but maybe the lowering of gpu prices wasn't all artificial, like your post suggested. I don't think amd and nvidia can sell $700 single gpu video cards anymore, now that there is always the choice to go with a video game console for people that would have, a couple of years ago, opted for pc gaming period.

With more an more console games being like pc games now, and with so few big budget pc exclusives, gaming pc's have less reasons to be as expensive in the past.

But if you look at things, pretty much all pc components have been getting cheaper over the years.

 

[Idontcare]

The recent downsizing at AMD seems to be targeted towards PR/Marketing to clean house and start afresh.

I know this is being broadly reported as "truth" by many media outlets, but I've been told by an AMD engineer that the "xyz dept was targeted" aspects are false. They were across the board headcount reductions impacting every team - be it marketing, gpu PR, CPU engineers, etc.

Until I hear AMD insiders say otherwise, I'm going with the current info from one AMD insider who is saying that no specific groups were "targeted", rather every dept took a haircut with these layoffs.

 

[Ben90]

This is true but AMD's marketing efforts can be improved in areas where they are competitive such a discrete GPUs etc.

How do you feel about this?

Stuff about how "Small die failed"[...U is something its not. That's marketing 101.

 

[sm625]

All chips across the board have been selling for less $$ per unit of die size. You cant look at what was selling for $1 per sq mm 7 years ago and expect it to compare evenly with what is available today.

 

[cbn]

Don't really want to go off topic here, but maybe the lowering of gpu prices wasn't all artificial, like your post suggested. I don't think amd and nvidia can sell $700 single gpu video cards anymore, now that there is always the choice to go with a video game console for people that would have, a couple of years ago, opted for pc gaming period.

With more an more console games being like pc games now, and with so few big budget pc exclusives, gaming pc's have less reasons to be as expensive in the past.

But if you look at things, pretty much all pc components have been getting cheaper over the years.

I thought that post was a great analysis of the MSRP vs die cost ratio.

Maybe the biggest problem AMD faced was stagnation in these two areas:

1. Console Tech: Like you say, why does someone need a modern high powered card to play ports based on old tech (from 2005/2006)

2. LCD monitor resolution: Mainstream LCD resolutions did not increase, they froze at a 1080p and then started getting cheaper. This reduced demand for greater GPU power.

Maybe this is one more reason the company wants to focus on APUs rather than discrete cards?

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Maybe this is one more reason the company wants to focus on APUs rather than discrete cards?

Bingo - consolitis has severely retarded development of PC gaming. An E-350 can run everything at 720p that an XBOX 360 can run (I think). With the exception of a few titles, a 5770 will still run everything at 1080p at acceptable frame rates, especially if you're willing to notch down settings. That card is now over two years old, which is an eternity for GPUs.

Software across the spectrum of usage, from gaming to productivity to video/entertainment, is no longer increasing its demand on hardware like it used to. The writing's on the wall - aside from hardcore enthusiasts, even today's budget gear is sufficient for users. Personally I think the Fusion strategy is very insightful, and it will be nice to see good marketing for it.

"AMD Fusion: because a $400 Core i7 and Z68 won't decode a 1080p video faster than a $100 E-350." 😛

 

[frozentundra123456]

Bingo - consolitis has severely retarded development of PC gaming. An E-350 can run everything at 720p that an XBOX 360 can run (I think). With the exception of a few titles, a 5770 will still run everything at 1080p at acceptable frame rates, especially if you're willing to notch down settings. That card is now over two years old, which is an eternity for GPUs.

Software across the spectrum of usage, from gaming to productivity to video/entertainment, is no longer increasing its demand on hardware like it used to. The writing's on the wall - aside from hardcore enthusiasts, even today's budget gear is sufficient for users. Personally I think the Fusion strategy is very insightful, and it will be nice to see good marketing for it.

"AMD Fusion: because a $400 Core i7 and Z68 won't decode a 1080p video faster than a $100 E-350." 😛

OK, you buy an i7 and I will buy an E350. Then you trade with me. After all one is as good as the other, right??

 

[Gigantopithecus]

OK, you buy an i7 and I will buy an E350. Then you trade with me. After all one is as good as the other, right??

Are you cognitively impaired?

 

[frozentundra123456]

Are you cognitively impaired?

Dont you understand the concept of satire?

I was just trying to point out that an E350 may do one simple task that an i7 does, but that does not mean that it is a better design or better value than an i7. They are designed for different markets and perform different tasks. It is like saying: buy a toyota prius instead of a truck because they both can get you to the corner market. But if you need the power of a truck to haul a heavy load, you do not want the prius.

 

[Idontcare]

Are you cognitively impaired?

Where does your post fall on the following diagram?

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Where does your post fall on the following diagram?

Sorry IDC, I tend to respond to posts in kind. Intelligent posts get intelligent responses. I don't get paid to explain the obvious to idiots on this forum. 😛

 

[Plimogz]

Where does your post fall on the following diagram?

lol, pwned.

@frozentundra123456: I think the point of Gigantopithecus' post was to underline that for many users, decoding 1080p video is likely to be the most resource intensive thing they'll do. So proper performance in such a task can be taken as a litmus test in identifying "fast enough" hardware.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

I think the point of Gigantopithecus' post was to underline that for many users, decoding 1080p video is likely to be the most resource intensive thing they'll do. So proper performance in such a task can be taken as a litmus test in identifying "fast enough" hardware.

The point I initially made was exactly what Captain CI then reiterated after his flippant, blatantly baiting response.

If the mods are going to make stickies about baiting and overall tone of the technical forums, then it simply doesn't follow for IDC to criticize me calling a spade a spade. Really, if you can't keep up...

 

[Plimogz]

oh, I see.

I guess it was just confusing because your two first paragraphs underscored valid arguments in favor of the fusion chip. So reading that last paragraph ironically didn't seem the clear choice.