Lenovo build quality as gone down..

[rsutoratosu]

Had a horrible time with x240 and thinkpad yoga. These were suppose to be really good. I been with lenovo since T40 days and have deployed over 500 t4x/t6x/t4xx/t5xx/x2xx. Never had major issues till the x240s & thinkpad yoga
for the month, we send back all 100 x240 and 50 thinkpad yogas.. every system has different issues and its just so weird the system quality is so bad

- wireless on the new ac card drops for 20-30 min at a time
- error 2100 on boot up - detection errror on hdd 0
- computer goes into airplane mode - never seen this before
- dock loses video connection - need to undock and redock

 

[vshah]

yikes. I just ordered a new x1 carbon. hope I don't have issues.

 

[rsutoratosu]

we have the older x1 and had no issues, maybe the new x1 carbon is made from a different production line, let me know how you make out

 

[marcplante]

My T430 has been fine for the first couple months I've used it. I've even gotten used to the CTRL button

Strange to be back to a trackpoint after two years on a dell. It's nice to have.

 

[rsutoratosu]

We just had a brand new t430 that stop posting yesterday after 1 week.. its only 1 out of 100, if it becomes 20-30 / 100, I would get worry.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

T530 at work has been fantastic and rock solid.

 

[Ertaz]

T530 at work has been fantastic and rock solid.

We've had 2 T530's out of the last 20 or so with strange nic issues. We're moving to the t540's once our image is complete.

 

[alkemyst]

Most will never discover the issues in a laptop. They use them usually as desktops (that has already changed at the cheaper price points with disposable devices).

I was a big IBM guy since around the 1980's. I started with an Apple //e then went to a IBM PS/2 Model 60 then 80, by the time the 90's started.

My 11 year old has my last 'Lenovo' product which was a rebranded IBM T60. The latest products run awesome...they can't compete with Apple Retina yet display-wise.

They also don't have the build quality. The are flimsy and have really odd issues at times.

Sadly, many still think Lenovo = IBM.

OB: I created the IBM PS/2 FAQ.

 

[Darknite39]

Just spent the last hour or so reading through notebookreview's forums re: the new batch of Thinkpads. I am suddenly less enthusiastic about getting a shiny replacement for my T61. It's too bad; I was really looking forward to an IPS panel. :/

Maybe I'll give it a go anyway; it looks like Lenovo has free returns in place.

 

[MichaelD]

I hope I have better luck than some in this thread!

I am well-aware that Lenovo long ago bought the ThinkPad line/name from IBM. But from what I've seen, ThinkPads are still viable and reliable business machines.

Yesterday, I bought an E545, due to the price of the laptop itself, and how much it would cost me to "soup it up" to more respectable specs. http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops...e-series/e545/

The E545 comes with AMD dual-core A6-5350M 2.9GHz to 3.5GHz, 1MB Cache, 1600MHz, integrated HD 8450G Graphics, 4GB RAM, 320GB/5400rpm HD). Decent enough specs for $450, though the screen is the usual 13x7 TFT. But you really can't get a better screen than that these days w/o stepping up a couple hundred bucks in price.

I wanted a new laptop. I wanted the laptop to come with a 64-bit W7 variant (don't like W8), so I could wipe the thing right out of the box and reinstall W7 using the key I just paid for. I wanted USB3.0. I wanted features that are important to me and others that were "good enough" for me based on price.

A good KB is paramount, and the ThinkPads have some of the best out there, IME/IMO. Also, the ThinkPads are some of the most serviceable laptops in existence. On the E545, the CMOS battery, Wifi card, RAM, HD and the fan are all accessible by popping off the two bottom covers. This was a major selling point for me.

So, I bought the E545, a 120GB SSD and 8GB (2x4GB) of RAM. So, the whole machine cost me $635. Should be quite peppy w/the SSD and 8 gig of RAM. If I really wind up needing extra storage, I'll buy a 32GB SD card for $20 and be done w/it.

I don't game on laptops. I use them for email, Word, PowerPoint etc while traveling. I'll stream video off YouTube, etc, but that's about as much as I expect from a laptop that doesn't cost $1K+.

I've been using an Asus EEEPC netbook w/a 7200rpm drive in it, running WinXP. It would stutter trying to watch a movie, while surfing/emailing. Dealt with that for a few years....it was time to upgrade.

AFA the ThinkPad goes: All I want is for it to last a long time. Hopefully it doesn't have build or reliability issues.

 

[Lanyap]

It was just a matter of time before the cheap and unreliable consumer laptops design and build creeped into their Thinkpad business line.

 

[rsutoratosu]

Not totally giving up on Lenovo..

Ordered 10 x1 carbon.. we have the older ones out in the field and hopefully the new ones will be just as good.

The thing I hate is how they move the caps key away and shove it as home/end

 

[vshah]

Not totally giving up on Lenovo..

Ordered 10 x1 carbon.. we have the older ones out in the field and hopefully the new ones will be just as good.

The thing I hate is how they move the caps key away and shove it as home/end

i got a new one a few days ago and it seems incredibly well built. still can't believe how light and thin it is.

 

[MichaelD]

Not a review thread by any means, but thought I'd post my thoughts on the new E545 I just bought. Full specs here:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834313641

IMHO, it looks and feels as nice/good as the $650 HP Pavilion I bought about 3 years ago and runs fairly speedily...the hamstring here being the 5400-rpm drive it came with...but that's about to be remedied. The Thinkpad has that "rubberized plastic feel" to the outside of the case that I really prefer over a "piano black" slippery plastic type finish. YMMV, of course, but I like it.

Keep in mind, the below-listed "Issues" are after just 2 days of messing around with it.

BUILD QUALITY ISSUES:
The DVD drive is very slightly loose in it's mount. The screw holding it in is tight, but it's just a little loose.
The DVDs pop-out drawer is just shy of perfectly horizontal...small gap on the right, vs. none on the left.

That's it for build quality issues! Screen hinges are strong and steady. Screen is bright (too bright at max setting for me...a good omen for brightness longevity). Keyboard has almost no flex (IMO) and key travel is excellent. Touchpad is responsive (though I do not like it that touchpad itself is "clickable"...you can actually click down (not tap) on it like a mouse button). The touchpad DOES support "tap to click" however.

FEATURE ISSUES
Hard drive has no activity light anywhere on the case. Really not happy with this, but it's obviously not a show-stopper.
DVD Drive has no activity light on it. NEVER seen this before. Works great, but no light.

The internal fan is whisper-quiet while surfing the net. I have not loaded it up with Prime95 or anything like that yet, but if the fan's boot-up speed is any indication, it's full-speed sound is not unbearable...more of a whooshing noise than a high-speed whiney noise. The audio is pretty darn loud for a laptop! No bass...or low-midrange, of course...it's a laptop. That's what headphones are for. The camera is a 720P wide-angle piece aimed squarely at the video teleconferencing crowd. VERY nice for a built-in jobbie. The card reader...reads SD cards...hooray. It works...what else ya'want? Even with a mechanical HD in there, the keyboard barely gets warm, and I'm picky about that. MY EEEPC gets might toasty in comparison. As for the bottom...it gets a little warm, but not hot by any means. I've not done "a lap test" yet, but I rarely use the laptop in my lap anyway. THREE USB3.0 ports, one "always on for charging" USB2.0, Gigabit LAN, Wireless B/G/N/BT4.0 and an HDMI video out round out the connectivity. Nice.

IT'S GOTTA HAVE BLOATWARE, RIGHT?
Of course it does. Would it be an OEM install of Windows if it didn't? But, no crazy, stupid popups while you're just nosing around the hard drive. No "click here to close this window" and you get redirected to 213 different spyware-infested websites. DELL'S used to be notorious for this BS about 10 years ago. The Lenovo's got tons of trial this and that on there. But it doesn't open if you don't click it. See "fresh install" immediately below.

Turning a $450 laptop into an $800 laptop
I have a 120GB Samsung Evo 840 SSD and 8GB (2x4GB) of RAM I'll be installing tomorrow, along with a fresh install of W7 Pro X64. That will really make this thing fly. Storage space is not an issue for me. My laptop is a travel computer that I use for email/surfing/MS Office work; it is not a desktop replacement for me. 120GB...or about 60GB leftover after W7 installs, will be plenty. Besides, I can always stuff a 32GB SD card in the slot if I need "that much more space."

 

[Darknite39]

Nice mini-review. Happy to read about the tap-to-click support.

Thanks!

 

[MichaelD]

Glad you liked it, Darknite39. The E545 isn't my dream laptop by any means. In a 15" screen I'd like to see 1400x900 res, at least. But in today's "laptop economy" that means stepping up to a $800+ machine right out the gate, and typically you can expect a lousy CPU and 2GB of memory at that pricepoint. (your "value for the money" is the better screen...you pay extra for everything else) They really gouge you for anything above a 13.7 screen these days. 13.x7 on a 12" screen looks pretty good, albeit small. On a 15" screen it's "Just ok". But the brightness of this panel help "make up for it."

Basically, when buying new, unless you're starting at the $1K mark, there will be compromises. Which of those are important to you, is up to you. I feel I did pretty good for $700, upgrades included. I tend to keep tech a long time; the Thinkpads are very serviceable and right up my alley.

 

[Darknite39]

I'm still rocking a T61, so I'm right with you re serviceability. Replaced the LCD (my fault) and even the mobo (nvidia's fault), along with making a Sammy 830 the primary drive. Looks like it will be with me for the foreseeable future. About the only thing I'd like is more ram, but the upgrade from 4 to 8 GB ddr2 is PRICEY!

 

[MichaelD]

Heh. DDR2 is why I sold off my previous desktop AND HTPC systems. It's like gold these days and it's so much slower than DDR3...at least the system is, overall.

The original IBM ThinkPads were just "this much shy" of a Panasonic Toughbook, IMO. Short of chucking it down two flights of stairs you can't kill them. Put a SSD in one of them and you could take it to the moon. :thumbsup:

The new Lenovo's are no original ThinkPads, but IMHO, for "business users" (adults that care for their systems and treat them accordingly) the ThinkPads are still the best option out there. The thinnest, lightest, fastest laptop in the world isn't worth squat if it dies the first time your carry briefcase gets dropped by the cabbie taking it out of the trunk, IMHO.

ps
For the benefit of others reading this, I want to amend my "business users" comment to mean "Adult business travelers that also do their own tech support." Joe CEO Guy might own your company and make $750K/year, but if he throws his laptop out the window of every hotel he stays at and then blames "The Help Desk" when it doesn't work, he's not my idea of "a typical business user."

 

[MichaelD]

Wanted to amend my comments to include this note. My E545 came with W7 Prox64 preloaded/activated but no Windows license sticker anywhere on it. It also came with W8 upgrade DVDs (with no key on them either), but no W7 media at all.

I used Magic Jellybean to get the license key. I installed my SSD and loaded up the W7 Pro .iso. When I tried to use the license key, it would not activate, and I didn't get the "call Microsoft and type in these strings of numbers and we'll give you a code" window either. I just got an "Could not active OEM license" error box.

I called Lenovo and spent 45 mins on the phone with a clueless person who could not understand why I would replace a brand new HD with an SSD. /facepalm

I explained how I paid for a W7 license but couldn't use it now.

She offered to sell me a recovery DVD for $50. No thanks. She passed me over to Warranty Support...who don't work on the weekends.

I got frustrated and bought a legal W7 Pro license online for $68. It activated just fine.

I find it very odd that there was no W7 license key anywhere to be found. Not in the laptop documentation, no on the battery, not under the battery and not on the inside of any of the covers on the bottom of the laptop.

 

[Ravynmagi]

I bought the Yoga 2 11 and I am thinking about returning it. The keyboard quality is pretty bad. And the software once in a while gets confused as to what mode it's in and pops up the soft keyboard when I'm in laptop mode. It's mostly the keyboard though, granted this is the low priced Yoga, I still don't get why keyboards this poor quality need to be used. Maybe I should look at one of the Sony Flips instead.

 

[todpod]

We got 4 thinkpad twists about six months ago one blew the motherboard and mine had to have the battery replaced and now the hard drive, very underwhelming

 

[WackyDan]

I've used more ThinkPads than probably most here. My first ThinkPad was a 701c butterfly back in 96. That was when I was working my first IBM contract through a 3rd party company. Needless to say, I was getting issued a new ThinkPad on average every six months and sometimes issued two to carry.

In 2006 I went to work full time as a field engineer for Lenovo and continued the trend of working with multiple ThinkPads and pretty much carried a Z61t for 3 years as my main laptop.

Since 2010, I've been back at IBM and have had a W510 as my only ThinkPad for over three years now.

My wife is still using a T61.

In all those years and a shitload of thinkpads + travel the only issues I personally had were the following:

701c - plugged into a PBX and blew the modem... Oops! My fault entirely.
T21 - Drive failure which was a supplier issue. Was either Seagate or WD. I forget.
Z61t - Inverter for backlight failed... I got the Z61t as a hand me down at Lenovo and I ran that thing day and night. I think I honestly contributed to the max hours of the backlight/inverter.

That's it... I've been very happy with my W510 and am hoping for a W540 later this year to replace it. Though I hate the new chicklet style keyboards on the W series. Based on what I'm seeing with my peers, the T series is still rock solid. The Edge branding came out as I was leaving Lenovo and my impression was that the Edge line was going to be niche as much as it was going to be lower cost - hence perhaps lower build quality.

In the fleet of ThinkPads I helped manage leading up to my joining Lenovo in 2006, The only real issues with had was with the first ThinkPad tablets and those horrible 1.8" 4200 RPM drives. You sneezed on them and the drive would fail. The R40 series had these terrible low quality screen latches that broke easily. Oh, and the old retail iSeries ThinkPads were absolute junk, but their were retail after all.

The best "sleeper" ThinkPad I ever carried was an R61... It was essentially the exact same thing as a T series without the options for cellular WAN and some other doo-dads.

I'm still a ThinkPad fan. It is entirely possible for Lenovo to have build quality issues on a single model, so I'm not dismissing anything other's are saying.