Legality of "hiring" unpaid work?

[Deleted member 4644]

My company doesn't have much money, but we have a lot of friends. If I "hire" some friends to "work" for me doing light duties for ~5 hours a week each, do I have any legal requirement to give them money or benefits?

How does the minimum wage law work? If they are interns or volunteers, is that legal?

Edit:

1) I AM NOT TRYING TO "Screw the system."
2) I am ASKING if this is legal, if not, I won't do it!
3) My FRIENDS have asked to volunteer with my company, I am not trying to screw random college kids.

 

[CarlKillerMiller]

Couldn't they just be doing you favors? If a buddy of mine had a company and needed, say, a ride to the office because his car was in the shop, I wouldn't charge hi transportation fees.

 

[S Freud]

More details of situation please.

 

[Skunkwourk]

people get paid "under the table" all the time...

 

[skyking]

Whatever you do, consider your business model with regards to liability. If you cannot afford to pay them or protect your business and your friends with insurance of some sorts, reconsider the model.

 

[swimscubasteve]

Illegal, except in certain circumstances (that would most likely not apply to you).

FYI, I am the business manager for a small business.

 

[Syringer]

You can legally have them do you favors for free, but you can't pay them $3 an hour to do work..

 

[CycloWizard]

I know the government has work without compensation (WOC) forms that must be filled out in certain circumstances (and are a big pain, as with most government forms).

 

[compuwiz1]

If you control their time in anyway, or demand anything be done a certain way, you pretty much have to pay them, at least minimum wage.

Have them sign an I volunteer to help statement. Just don't bitch when they don't show up on time, or if the work is not up to your expectations. You will be entitled to the exact damages you paid them..........zero.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: LordSegan
My company doesn't have much money, but we have a lot of friends. If I "hire" some friends to "work" for me doing light duties for ~5 hours a week each, do I have any legal requirement to give them money or benefits?

How does the minimum wage law work? If they are interns or volunteers, is that legal?

um, what happens if they become injured on the job? would you or your company be legally liable?

 

[DigDug]

Simply call them "interns" and offer to provide recommendation letters upon request.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

If anyone is interested, I found this:

Pursuant to this law, the U.S. Department of Labor (DOL) has developed six criteria for differentiating between an employee entitled to minimum wage or above and a learner/trainee who may be unpaid. The criteria for learner/trainee are:
1. The training, even though it includes actual operations of the facilities of the employers, is similar to that which would be given in a vocational school.
2. The training is for the benefit of the student.
3. The student does not displace a regular employee, but works under the close observation of a regular employee or supervisor.
4. The employer provides the training and derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the student; and on occasion, the operations may actually be impeded by the training.
5. The student is not necessarily entitled to a job at the conclusion of the training period.
6. The employer and the student understand that the student is not entitled to wages for the time spent training.
Not all six factors have to be present in order for the individual to be considered a trainee. The experience, however, should look more like a training/learning experience than a job.


We can provide training, most of these people are my personal friends, and it wouldnt be more than 5 hrs a week, so it seems ok

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: LordSegan
My company doesn't have much money, but we have a lot of friends. If I "hire" some friends to "work" for me doing light duties for ~5 hours a week each, do I have any legal requirement to give them money or benefits?

How does the minimum wage law work? If they are interns or volunteers, is that legal?

seems a bit sad that you are already looking to screw the system (and screw your workers) this early into your business career.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: LordSegan
My company doesn't have much money, but we have a lot of friends. If I "hire" some friends to "work" for me doing light duties for ~5 hours a week each, do I have any legal requirement to give them money or benefits?

How does the minimum wage law work? If they are interns or volunteers, is that legal?

seems a bit sad that you are already looking to screw the system (and screw your workers) this early into your business career.

Whoa buddy. Screw our workers and the system? I work for FREE. Zip Zero. If anything starting this business has cost me money which I may never get back.

I am not looking to screw anyone. I went to UCLA where TONS of really smart kids wanted internships and many of them did not get them.

All I want are a few helpers when I go to meetings and distribute physical ads. I'm not trying to screw anyone.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: LordSegan
Whoa buddy. Screw our workers and the system? I work for FREE. Zip Zero. If anything starting this business has cost me money which I may never get back.

I am not looking to screw anyone. I went to UCLA where TONS of really smart kids wanted internships and many of them did not get them.

All I want are a few helpers when I go to meetings and distribute physical ads. I'm not trying to screw anyone.

interns FTW. Be sure to provide references.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: LordSegan
I am not looking to screw anyone. I went to UCLA where TONS of really smart kids wanted internships and many of them did not get them.

All I want are a few helpers when I go to meetings and distribute physical ads. I'm not trying to screw anyone.

I just hope that if and when your business expands and takes on employees, you will be responsbile and decent towards the people who are working for you. It is a big responsibility, you will be holding their livelihood in your hands.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: LordSegan
I am not looking to screw anyone. I went to UCLA where TONS of really smart kids wanted internships and many of them did not get them.

All I want are a few helpers when I go to meetings and distribute physical ads. I'm not trying to screw anyone.

I just hope that if and when your business expands and takes on employees, you will be responsbile and decent towards the people who are working for you. It is a big responsibility, you will be holding their livelihood in your hands.

Trust me, when I say I am trying to do good. We are a VERY small company, and I actually got the idea when a few friends of mine asked "how could we help."

I didn't want to tell them "Yes you can help" without reading at least a little bit online about compensation.

 

[compuwiz1]

Edited:

After a pm it appears I misunderstood the OP.

 

[badmouse]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
After reading, as well as fully understanding this thread and your intents, it has become clear to me, that you are looking for a way to cheat the system and some people. That is disgusting. Your motivations are quite clear. Your company has no money, and you want to use others. Just fold the damn company, if it's that broke. :|

Wrong on so many levels.

To the OP: yes, it's legal. It becomes illegal when you either insist that they do things, and have bad consequences when they don't - or, when you make promises to your volunteers that you don't keep. If you say you're going to hire somebody later if they volunteer enough, and then you don't, THAT is going to get you into trouble.

If people offer to help, and you accept their offer, that's fine. As long as they always have the option of walking away, or saying no to what you ask them to do, you're legally okay. That's called friendship.

You can also do things like buy them dinner, or drinks etc to say thank you - but you have to be careful about calling that a business dinner for tax purposes, talk to your accountant about what is and isn't okay.

Most of us who have started up businesses needed volunteer help to get off the ground. Think of how many people have their parents lend a hand, or have the wife do the books or whatever. Friends are wonderful. They help you when you need them, and then when they need a hand, you pitch in. So, a good rule of thumb is to only accept as much help as you are willing to "pay back" in return.

However, it's a good way to lose a friend if the friend is assuming that they'll get a job later or something - and you figure they're just helping. You have to think of it from their point of view. This is a tricky management issues, you have to know what's in their heads. It's MUCH easier to manage people when you pay them.

Good luck on your new business. Do you have a SBA office near you, or SCORE? They are good people to talk to about business startups. They'd answer this kind of question for you, and they generally know what they're talking about. At least in my experience.

 

[Injury]

If they are doing the work for free and you are both of the understanding that it's free, unpaid work then it is not illegal. It IS illegal to hire someone as an employee and not pay them at or above minimum wage. When you hire someone, it's saying that they are a part of your company, they have a job, and that you are compensating them for their labor on a set rate. Labor laws say that the set rate must be above a certain amount.

Alternatively, if you are going to pay them something, your better option would be to hire them as consultants or freelance workers based on a single commision, not hourly wages.

When you use the words "hire" and "work" in quotes it seems shady, you may want to simply say "Is it illegal to have friends do unpaid work for my company?"

For the record, an internship is something that is an educational experience, not the same as a job