Legality and Morality of 3rd party key sellers

[dpodblood]

I have noticed recently there are a lot of websites out there that sell game keys which activate on steam, origin, etc. But cost a lot less than other services like Steam, or GMG. Often these times are in Russian, or some other non-English language and require a language pack for English support, and sometimes a VPN to activate. I was wondering about a few things.

Is it legal to buy from these Sites?

What is the origin (no pun intended) of these keys, and how are they able to sell them at such a discount?

Are there moral issues around buying from these sites? I bring up the issue of morality because the main reason I stopped pirating for good is because I wanted to support the developers who created the games I love. Is buying from 3rd party sellers effectively taking money out of the hands of developers?

Also; what makes these sites different from Impulse, GMG, D2D ect which also provide CD keys which can be activated on Steam or other services? Seems like either way A 3rd party company is providing the key and Valve is supplying the service and bandwidth.

 

[RavenSEAL]

Some seem to legitimately acquired keys from distribution centers, I've tried it once and it didn't go too bad (Had the key in like an hour).

 

[pontifex]

you are buying keys that are meant for other countries where it is cheaper, usually due to the economy of that country, i think.

I don't think it's illegal but it is against the TOS for Steam.

Yes, you are taking money out of the dev's hands because you are paying $30 for a russian version of a game that costs $50 for the US version.

 

[Jeeebus]

At one point I think I had about 12 Diablo 2 keys, many of which were acquired from those types of sites for like $4. My guess is the keys are legit, just meant for some overseas country. Either that or somebody figured out an algorithm and is just cranking out keys. Either way, they worked.

 

[dpodblood]

you are buying keys that are meant for other countries where it is cheaper, usually due to the economy of that country, i think.

I don't think it's illegal but it is against the TOS for Steam.

Yes, you are taking money out of the dev's hands because you are paying $30 for a russian version of a game that costs $50 for the US version.

How does steam know the difference between these keys and keys sold from other "legit" distributors like GMG and Impulse? Not to mention other 3rd party sources like video card vouchers. I thought that was the whole point of the "activate a product on Steam" feature.

 

[PingSpike]

you are buying keys that are meant for other countries where it is cheaper, usually due to the economy of that country, i think.

I don't think it's illegal but it is against the TOS for Steam.

Yes, you are taking money out of the dev's hands because you are paying $30 for a russian version of a game that costs $50 for the US version.

One could argue that we supposedly live in a global economy and that there shouldn't be different prices in different regions of the world...and if there are, selling the keys is a natural reaction by the market to correct this.

 

[KaOTiK]

The keys are legit, but are not suppose to be sold out of those countries. They fall into what many refer to as the grey market. Games in these countries are extremely cheap next to many other places due to a variety of reasons, most commonly is due to the poor economy there and/or to combat piracy since it is so prevalent in said countries. These keys have a restriction where they are to only be used and/or activated in the country it was purchased.

There have been cases of Steam and EA both revoking a game from someones account for using these keys. Granted most don't probably but there is the chance of having the game removed from your account, or even worse possibly having your account banned. This has been starting to become an issue more lately and some games are requiring the game to be activated from an IP of the country the key is sold in. Right now people are currently using VPN's to get around this, but it does show that this is more of a use at your own risk type of thing.

 

[dpodblood]

Yes, you are taking money out of the dev's hands because you are paying $30 for a russian version of a game that costs $50 for the US version.

Just to clarify this point, the developers are still being paid for the game. They are just being paid what they would receive from a Russian citizen rather than receiving what they would normally make from the North American market.

 

[dpodblood]

There have been cases of Steam and EA both revoking a game from someones account for using these keys. Granted most don't probably but there is the chance of having the game removed from your account, or even worse possibly having your account banned. This has been starting to become an issue more lately and some games are requiring the game to be activated from an IP of the country the key is sold in. Right now people are currently using VPN's to get around this, but it does show that this is more of a use at your own risk type of thing.

Seems like it would make sense to keep a separate Steam/Origin account for these types of games then. Just in case the account got banned.

 

[Craig234]

One could argue that we supposedly live in a global economy and that there shouldn't be different prices in different regions of the world...and if there are, selling the keys is a natural reaction by the market to correct this.

What a bunch of buzzword nonsense.

Here's a better summary of the problem:

There is terrible and very large inequality in the world. Many in the world get less than $1 a day. There are local economies adjusted to those differences. If you want to get a rented place in the US or in Guatemala, the prices will be very different, as will the price of lunch and energy and water and other goods.

With global goods this is an issue. Selling a Playstation 3 is either like buying a yacht at US prices in Guatemala so no one can afford one, or priced differently by region.

That's not very practical with a hard good like a Playstation 3 and I don't see many huts in Guatemala in PS3 games.

With a digital good like a game, that changes, if they can restrict the movement.

Let's say a game sells for $50 in the US, and is still expensive in Guatemala at $5. But it's 'a market', and the cost of selling it would still provide a small profit, though most of the cost is outside distribution and is made by countries like the US. Why not also sell some copies for $5 to a poor region?

The reason: when those sales cannabilize the wealthy regions.

Now I know there are some scummy people who say 'too bad who cares'. But in fact I think that's a pretty crappy position for moral and business reasons.

These people seem to forget how they benefit from the lower cost of labor in poorer countries - they could look next to them for all the cheap goods they buy.

This is a little bit of economic justice for the benefit they get from the poorer regions.

But it's not going to work if the sales are cannibalizing. So great, some crooks who violate TOS prevent poorer people getting more affordable items and cut off some revenue.

They could just try to deal with this by technical restrictions - linking keys to IP's from regions - which is an option few goods have, but digital media in theory might - except it doesn't, really. The borders don't have enforcibility. That's just the internet and digital reproduction.

So I guess like a store who has to tolerate some shoplifting but won't stay open if it's too much, regional pricing tolerates some crooks but won't happen with too much stealing.

Just like you shouldn't buy goods likely shoplifted from a store, you have a similar issue buying cheap keys likely violating TOS - but enforcing by customers doesn't work great.

The main thing we can do is not patronize them and support publishers' enforcement machanisms against it; I'm looking at you, anti-DRM fanatics.

You can not like 'bad DRM', but some DRM can be important to having games available and preventing theft. Steam does some of that, or could if they're not, but see thread above, easily violated.

I'd rather we just had more economic equality in the world - by poorer nations having more - but that's not happening soon.

 

[Anarchist420]

This just reminded me I need to sell my Arkham City voucher. I probably should've already done it though.

 

[greenhawk]

you are buying keys that are meant for other countries where it is cheaper, usually due to the economy of that country, i think.

I don't think it's illegal but it is against the TOS for Steam.

+1

IIRC steam did a large ban a few years ago as a very noticable number of US steam customers purchased copues from russia / thialand at about 20c in the dollar. Steam enforced the TOS heavly.

For the odd person, they might not notice, but when it happens enough, they crack down hard. The CD key can indicate region and so need a VPN to activate (if you want to try it). Down side is that even with Steam not knowing you are using a VPN, they can generally guess quickly that you have used one as you logged in from Russia, then 5 minutes later restart steam and log in (same account) in the US. No way your computer could move that fast so you get flaged. I am sure technically it is their "you might have been hacked" locking of your account, but it works just as well for "you breached TOS with a VPN" ect.

 

[greenhawk]

These people seem to forget how they benefit from the lower cost of labor in poorer countries - they could look next to them for all the cheap goods they buy.

+1

it is a "fun" situation. Companies outsource work, manufacture ect to low cost countries as it is good for the bottom line. Having consumers doing the same is "wrong" in their eyes. The descripency, to me, does not make me worry too much when they cry poor. Down side is that at the end of the day, everyone will loose out.

Of course, as mentioned. Times change with global markets. With some items, you could control your price by stagared releasing in different markets. For hardware, someone would have to pay extra to get it early if not in the original markets. With software, you just wait for someone to hack it and you get it.

The easy approach at release then is to have a global release instead of region based release, so anyone that wants it, can get it quickly. This works better for the poorer countries, but then you get people in rich countries (ie: US) doing the opersite and buying the game from poor countries and saving money. This approach then harms the idea and pushs for no global release. Region restrictions can try to balance it, but in some countries, artificial limits enforced by a manufacture (for were I am, that is basically price fixing) and so basically illegal. No idea on the stance in the US. Grey importing of anything (ie: against the wishes of the manufacture) are also in the same area for other goods as well. Grey importing for the purpose of reselling though, that gets a manufactures attention and gets jumped on were they can.

Personally, I have zero quarms about going the CD path, but then the reasons for me is that Australia pay more than the US. New steam game in the US, $50USish, same game at the same time, proberly $80-90US (yes, still charged the same currency so we get a exchange rate and fee to contend with).

So I buy from the UK for about $45-50US.

second issue is that becuase stores complained, steam is more expencive than a physical copy which has it's own issue of possibly not being available for purchase for upto 3 weeks from the office release date. (either low stock numbers or only given out to some "premium" stores I can not get to).


The way I see it, as long as I do not by third world cd keys and not use any tricks like VPN, steam leaves me alone. If they change that approach, I'll change the way I get my games.

 

[lord_emperor]

+1

it is a "fun" situation. Companies outsource work, manufacture ect to low cost countries as it is good for the bottom line. Having consumers doing the same is "wrong" in their eyes. The descripency, to me, does not make me worry too much when they cry poor. Down side is that at the end of the day, everyone will loose out.

This, exactly. The publisher hires factories in China to stamp the disk and put it in a box, contracts an Indian call center for your tech support all to save money but it's not OK for you to do the same.

 

[thespyder]

OK, so you have asked two questions.

The first is about Legality. I would bet that most of the sites are legally authorized to sell the keys into certain markets. Purchasing from these, provided you are in the given market, would therefore be legal. Purchasing outside of those markets may not be ‘Strictly’ illegal, but are certainly outside of the intent of the offer and the company making the key available. Given there are potential consequences, that is pretty much beyond dispute. Granted the likelihood of getting caught is on the small side (which is what these types of sites are probably banking on), but there is always a risk.

As for the Morality of it, several posters have proposed “Justifications” for how and why it is acceptable. From my perspective (and this is a personal point of view only), anything that is subject to (apparently) loose interpretations of rules or guidelines just to make it reasonable “From a certain point of view” is going to be by its very nature morally suspect. I always think of it this way. Would I want my life and freedom to hang in the balance over a “Loose interpretation”? If not, I would steer clear of it. But you are the master of your own conscience. Play it how you like.

But if you are setting up a separate Steam account for these types of games, I think you already know that it isn’t legit and are merely looking for someone to tell you it is “OK”. But that is merely my personal view point.

This, exactly. The publisher hires factories in China to stamp the disk and put it in a box, contracts an Indian call center for your tech support all to save money but it's not OK for you to do the same.

So your stance is "The publisher was being underhanded so why shouldn't I"?

 

[pontifex]

How does steam know the difference between these keys and keys sold from other "legit" distributors like GMG and Impulse? Not to mention other 3rd party sources like video card vouchers. I thought that was the whole point of the "activate a product on Steam" feature.

I'm sure that the key numbers are formatted in such a way to indicate location etc.


say if your key is 123-456-789-001, maybe the 123 indicates the country or whatever? They obviously have a way of tracking it. How, I don't know...

 

[QueBert]

I came across a site selling RU MW3 keys for $27. The process to get it to install involved using a temp VPN in Russia and changing a key in the registery. Even with that I was considering doing it, but they said that the key could still possible be banned at any time. My luck in life isn't typically very good so I decided against it.

The prices make it pretty damn enticing though. BF3 Keys are going every day for about what the 1/2 off BF special from EA was.

 

[gevorg]

This, exactly. The publisher hires factories in China to stamp the disk and put it in a box, contracts an Indian call center for your tech support all to save money but it's not OK for you to do the same.

+2! Its becoming a trend for big business to outsource to third world slave labor and get bailouts at home, but once consumers find their own "tricks" (be it buying a game or a strategic default), then all of a sudden its a big moral hazard.

 

[Elixer]

Yes, you are taking money out of the dev's hands because you are paying $30 for a russian version of a game that costs $50 for the US version.

Just to clarify this point, the developers are still being paid for the game. They are just being paid what they would receive from a Russian citizen rather than receiving what they would normally make from the North American market.

Nope, the publishers are the ones that set the price, they have already paid off the developers of the game, with some of them getting royalties for every copy sold, but that isn't based on what the purchased price of that copy is, it is a fixed amount.

If however it is a self-published title, then that is when the cost of the product sold comes into play.

 

[McWatt]

If you buy a game for $25 when you wouldn't have otherwise bought it at all, you're putting money into the publishing executives' wallets, not taking it away.

 

[coloumb]

I guess you could just create a unique steam account for each game you buy. Then backup the install and play in off-line mode permanently specifically for that account?

 

[Nebor]

Never thought I'd see Craig defending big business!

 

[Gorthan]

I use a 3rd party key site. Ever since Steam/Publishers decided that Australians should pay $80-$99 US for new games. I'd be happy with the same price US people pay, but with our stronger dollar lately everyone seems content to rip us off. So I get my keys around half price, they're a scan of a box serial for my region anyway (Asia-Pacific), so no issues so far. Did the same with BF3 & Origin. No issues with either platform.

I can't see this being such an issue in the US or UK though, it's more of a weird combination of factors that has us Aussies paying through the nose while everyone else pays around half. I do know a sizable minority in Australia use key sites for this reason.

PS: For reference, back in the earlier days when our dollar was weak buying direct off Steam tended to be around $10 more expensive than the US (and around $20 cheaper than the box copy). That I could stomach, not 2X as much.

 

[PingSpike]

+2! Its becoming a trend for big business to outsource to third world slave labor and get bailouts at home, but once consumers find their own "tricks" (be it buying a game or a strategic default), then all of a sudden its a big moral hazard.

That's kind of my point. We're supposedly a "free global market" until a consumer tries to take advantage of it. Region coding on DVDs is the same shit really. I mean, people have been buying an item that is cheap in one area and selling it in an area where it is expensive probably before currency existed, but if they do it with a video game with a EULA all of sudden they're suppose to be thieves?

It doesn't really affect me to much since I don't buy that many games really and virtually zero DVDs but the whole thing is a joke.

 

[dpodblood]

Some interesting points to ponder. At the end of the day though it doesn't seem like it would be worth the hassle or risk just to get a discount on the 2 or 3 new titles I buy per year.