legal for company to not pay you if you don't punch out?

hysperion

Senior member
May 12, 2004
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So I work a commision based job where we are paid commission or base depending on what we make. The base is $8/hour and I normally make WELL above that. Due to the job being mainly commission, myself and alot of others routinely forget to punch out.

Well last week for the first time in since I started (been there nearly 2 years) I made under the $8 an hour because of lack of business. Out of 20 punches, (10 days; 2 each day in and out), I forgot to do 3. I informed my manager of it last week and he said he'd take care of it. Anyways, got my check today and they didn't pay me for the 3 days where I missed a punch.

They said it was my fault and that they had a sign something a few months back saying if we missed punches and were below 30 hours we wouldn't get as much vacation time- I told them that's fine but what does that have to do with them paying me for the hours. Long and short of it- they're refusing to pay me the $160....$160 isn't alot to me, but in principle it makes me want to quit.

I have multiple ways to back up that I was at work- first off have camera throughout the store, and I wrote sales on those days that I worked on. That wasn't their argument- it was simply that I forgot to punch and I know I'm supposed to so it's my fault and they can't do anything about it.

Is this illegal? Or just really dirty of them?
 

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,452
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i've heard similar, if you forget to punch in it's not their fault and they aren't required to pay you, i know where i work it generally gets fixed so i haven't had an issue with it. It's more headache for the people cutting the checks doing payroll etc to have to track stuff down and adjust...they shouldn't have to hold your hand. either way good luck with getting your 160 back(that's exactly how much my check was today, yay!)
 

hysperion

Senior member
May 12, 2004
837
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Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: ggnl
Yes, it is illegal.

why would it be illegal?

If a worker doesn't punch in, how do they know he's been working?

Because every time I write a sale it is stamped with the time it's sold....I wrote plenty of sales on the days I missed a punch....This is a very dirty company in more ways than just this....All I asked is if they have to pay me. They know I was at work- that is not the issue. If I wasn't at work, was late or left early without a reason I'd be given an occurence. 7 of those in a rolling year and you're fired....
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
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Originally posted by: hysperion
Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: ggnl
Yes, it is illegal.

why would it be illegal?

If a worker doesn't punch in, how do they know he's been working?

Because every time I write a sale it is stamped with the time it's sold....I wrote plenty of sales on the days I missed a punch....This is a very dirty company in more ways than just this....All I asked is if they have to pay me. They know I was at work- that is not the issue. If I wasn't at work, was late or left early without a reason I'd be given an occurence. 7 of those in a rolling year and you're fired....
I agree that what they're doing is very, very dirty.

But the #1 rule when working for a dirty company is to make sure you followed procedure 100%, so they can't screw you. If you knew they were dishonest in other ways, why would you trust their honestly on this? Make sure the law is on YOUR side.
 

pulse8

Lifer
May 3, 2000
20,860
1
81
Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: ggnl
Yes, it is illegal.

why would it be illegal?

If a worker doesn't punch in, how do they know he's been working?

He said he didn't punch out. :confused:

I think they are being jerks, personally.
 

Adul

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
32,999
44
91
danny.tangtam.com
Originally posted by: hysperion
Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: ggnl
Yes, it is illegal.

why would it be illegal?

If a worker doesn't punch in, how do they know he's been working?

Because every time I write a sale it is stamped with the time it's sold....I wrote plenty of sales on the days I missed a punch....This is a very dirty company in more ways than just this....All I asked is if they have to pay me. They know I was at work- that is not the issue. If I wasn't at work, was late or left early without a reason I'd be given an occurence. 7 of those in a rolling year and you're fired....

check your local labor laws,
 

Kelemvor

Lifer
May 23, 2002
16,928
8
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Just call a local attorney and run it by them. Most give free mini-consultations over the phone.
 

shimsham

Lifer
May 9, 2002
10,765
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we do it at work. if you cant be responsible enough to clock in and out, we cant mind read and know exactly how long you worked. after a few times of having a short check, and having to wait for the missing hours to be added to the next weeks check, most people decide its a good idea to clock it like they are supposed to do.

we dont ever just refuse to pay, tho.

edit: are they flat out refusing to pay you, or just saying youll have to wait until the next pay day?
 

hysperion

Senior member
May 12, 2004
837
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They are flat out refusing to pay me the $160...This coming from the store manager after my department manager said "don't worry about it" last week.....

If I was simply waiting for the next check I wouldn't be complaining because you're right it is my fault for not punching out....It's just a bad habit alot of us have because 99% of the time we make commission anyways and the clock is in the far back of the store. When I don't have a coat there's no reason to go back there other than to clock in and out- so it's easy to forget....
 

shimsham

Lifer
May 9, 2002
10,765
0
0
thats just crap then. if you punched in, you were there.

try talking to your manager again. if that dont work, go above his head. i really dont see how it could be legal in any way for them to just refuse to pay you.

good luck.
 

hysperion

Senior member
May 12, 2004
837
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0
I already talked to the store manager and the manager of the payroll department all with the same answer.
 

richardycc

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2001
5,719
1
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Did you punch in at all? if you didn't punch out, shouldn't the computer still log you in as being there until the next time you punch in again? SO instead of making a correction from the incorrect longer hours, they changed it to zero? I think thats illegal.
 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
6
81
IT IS ILLEGAL TO NOT PAY YOU FOR TIME THAT YOU HAVE SPENT WORKING DURING NORMAL BUSINESS HOURS

Just let them know that you are going to inform the local Attorney General, the BBB and any other official sounding organization that you can think of and see how fast they wire the money to your account.
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
1
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Originally posted by: hysperion
I already talked to the store manager and the manager of the payroll department all with the same answer.

Does it matter if it's illegal or not? Even if it is illegal your only course of action will be to sue them. Are you going to sue them? If it's illegal and you aren't going to sue them what are you going to do? Nothing, that's what you are going to do. So your choice is to either accept it or quit.
 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
6
81
Originally posted by: Mwilding
IT IS ILLEGAL TO NOT PAY YOU FOR TIME THAT YOU HAVE SPENT WORKING DURING NORMAL BUSINESS HOURS

Just let them know that you are going to inform the local Attorney General, the BBB and any other official sounding organization that you can think of and see how fast they wire the money to your account.

edit: also, by their logic, since you haven't punched out, you are still there. They owe you for every hour sine the first incidence... (yeah - like that'll work...)
 

Yossarian

Lifer
Dec 26, 2000
18,010
1
81
Originally posted by: Mwilding
IT IS ILLEGAL TO NOT PAY YOU FOR TIME THAT YOU HAVE SPENT WORKING DURING NORMAL BUSINESS HOURS

Just let them know that you are going to inform the local Attorney General, the BBB and any other official sounding organization that you can think of and see how fast they wire the money to your account.

and if they fire you because of your complaint, you can get a nice bonus from a lawsuit.
 

hysperion

Senior member
May 12, 2004
837
0
0
Thanks for all the information guys....you guys are awesome.....I'll keep you updated...I have national guard drill this weekend and I'm probably going to Iraq in March so I think they're partially doing this so that I quit before I leave for Iraq....this isn't a small store either.....