Learning curve when moving from controller to keyboard and mouse

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dascoyne

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Mar 31, 2012
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Deck Legend - known for having great key feel.

dzxpqg.jpg
 

Nvidiaguy07

Platinum Member
Feb 22, 2008
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im really hoping best buy has one of the gamepads for me to try. The one thing keeping me away from the logitech, is that there is no "space" button, like there is on the razer.

I also like the look and assume the razer would feel more like a Gamepad, and less like a small keyboard in the hand.

The logitech also probably has too many buttons for me. Im mainly using it for FPS games, not MMO's.

I may just order both, and send back whichever i dont like. I think the only thing holding me back on the razer is the bad reviews im hearing, and the pad itself malfunctioning.

Im re-ordering my palm rest for my g110 from logitech anyway, so to get free shipping i might get the pad too.
 

Nvidiaguy07

Platinum Member
Feb 22, 2008
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ordered the razer the other day, heres my initial impressions:

I been using it for a couple days now, and im pretty sure im sending it back. Im sure its awesome for MMO's, but the killer for me was the placing of the "space bar."

The whole reason i bought this was that i was planning on using it as a smaller-half of the keyboard i needed, with awesome wrist support. I was hoping on at least using this to really adjust to PC controls, which would make my transition from gamepad to keyboard a little easier.

The feel of it isnt awful, and i could probably get used to it, but i really wish that wrist support was adjustable to different distances from the keys. The absolute worst and the deal breaker is the space bar to jump though..

I thought the placing of it looked decent in the pictures, but it is nowhere near the space bar on a regular keyboard. using it to jump was virtually impossible, and the button and joystick both just seem unnatural.

The G13's buttons for space (and jump for me), dont look any better, so it looks like ill be sticking with a traditional keyboard. I actually like my G110, which has the same design as the g15/19, but i just need a wrist pad or something.

So back to K+B it is for me. I really need to fix my wrist support, or build some type of custom wrist support, because i cant game for more than 30-60min straight without taking a decent break.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
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IMO, the G13's much better, especially in that it has very little wrist bend (put your hand down on the table, and let it relax: that's the G13's curve, with soft backing near the wrist). But, don't expect a half keyboard from it, either. IMO, either input device is much more suitable to real-time strategy, tactics, and dungeon crawling, where a more intricate key layout, or a layout not allowed by the game, can help remove important human delays, but a mouse is needed for your right hand. Or, for CAD macros.
 

richaron

Golden Member
Mar 27, 2012
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So back to K+B it is for me. I really need to fix my wrist support, or build some type of custom wrist support, because i cant game for more than 30-60min straight without taking a decent break.

Yup that will happen, I remember acclimatising to long hours of fps play. It's gonna hurt no matter what you use, so I'm sorry to agree with some of these peeps but you just have to "suck it up".

Playing more will work out those muscles & eventually it will feel like nothing. & once you can get used to defaults you can design your own retarded key mappings. Getting better is just a side effect.
 

Nvidiaguy07

Platinum Member
Feb 22, 2008
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Yup that will happen, I remember acclimatising to long hours of fps play. It's gonna hurt no matter what you use, so I'm sorry to agree with some of these peeps but you just have to "suck it up".

Playing more will work out those muscles & eventually it will feel like nothing. & once you can get used to defaults you can design your own retarded key mappings. Getting better is just a side effect.

well my biggest problem right now is that my old plastic wrist support thing broke off, and cant re re-attached, so ive been using nothing - which i think is why my hands and wrist hurt so bad. Even with it though im sure it would take some time to get used to.

I think i might try to make some kind of ball shaped wrist support out of sugru for the left side of my keyboard - kind of like the one on the nostromo. Might feel a little weird for normal typing, but i think itll be worth it.

I also want to at least attach that crappy plastic wrist support to my keyboard for good. I was going to use sugru to attach it, but that wont take away its flimsly, and light plastic feel. Is there anything i can use to pour into it, that will harden and add some weight to it? Having a hard time thinking of something that would work.
 

Nvidiaguy07

Platinum Member
Feb 22, 2008
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I have a 50% off coupon on any item from logitech right now. I am either gonna upgrade my keyboard or mouse.

Im thinking about getting the g19 for $100 with free shipping, the g9x for 40 bucks. Any real advantages of the G19 vs the G110? Im ordering a new wrist support for my G110 right now either way, but if i upgrade ill just keep it as a backup. Im also currently using a mx518 as a mouse, which i do like a lot. If i upgraded, id like to keep the same feel, but maybe with more buttons/better performance.
 
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Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
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If you like your MX518, don't get the G9x. The sensor behaves differently, and it has a radically different feel to it. Consider the G400 (replacement for the MX518, same in most ways, but higher DPI and better software), G500 (similar shape, heavier, smoother tracking with negative accel if you twitch), G300 (symmetrical, not sure about tracking), and G700 (fancy gamer's MX mouse).
 

Nvidiaguy07

Platinum Member
Feb 22, 2008
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If you like your MX518, don't get the G9x. The sensor behaves differently, and it has a radically different feel to it. Consider the G400 (replacement for the MX518, same in most ways, but higher DPI and better software), G500 (similar shape, heavier, smoother tracking with negative accel if you twitch), G300 (symmetrical, not sure about tracking), and G700 (fancy gamer's MX mouse).

Isnt the G700 wireless? Id be cool to have a decent wireless mouse for couch gaming, but i doubt its any good from past experiences. Ill probably get the g400 or 500, if i do decide to get a mouse. The 500 is probably more appealing so i can map things like knife/chage fire mode/throw gernade/flashlight/etc to mouse buttons.

But since the coupon is for half off any product, i feel like i need to get something bigger to make the purchase more worth it. I can get the G500 for ~50 bucks if i shop around anyway. And the G400 for 40, so id be saving 15 bucks.

Where else can i get the G19 for 100? I might just get that because its 70 bucks cheaper than if i were to buy from newegg.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
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Isnt the G700 wireless? Id be cool to have a decent wireless mouse for couch gaming, but i doubt its any good from past experiences. Ill probably get the g400 or 500, if i do decide to get a mouse. The 500 is probably more appealing so i can map things like knife/chage fire mode/throw gernade/flashlight/etc to mouse buttons.
You can do that and much more with the G400. The G500 is a little bigger, much heavier (and weight is adjustable), and has different tracking (worse for twitch, much better for smooth movement, and angle snapping is an option if you want it, instead of forced like the MX518 and G400).

Half off of one of their keyboards is nothing to complain about. If you don't like it, you could sell it for more than you paid while still be giving your buyer a good deal.
 

Nvidiaguy07

Platinum Member
Feb 22, 2008
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ended up buying the G500 from logitech. My keyboard is fine, so no real reason to upgrade - ordered a wrist support attachment for it.

I really wanted to try out the G9, but it was just too much of a risk for never using it, and i hate having to send stuff back. The G500 is pretty close to my mx518, so im pretty sure ill like the feel of it.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
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I really wanted to try out the G9, but it was just too much of a risk for never using it, and i hate having to send stuff back. The G500 is pretty close to my mx518, so im pretty sure ill like the feel of it.
I thought the G9 was discontinued (even though it had a better sensor than the G9x does).

If you'd like some heft over the MX518's lightness, you'll probably like the G500 quite a bit.
 

Karl775

Member
Apr 15, 2015
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Hi Nvidiaguy07.
Did you ever get the knack for using keyboard and mouse. I'm in the same boat as you were. Played hundreds of games on console, my son made me a high end gaming PC for my 45th birthday. Love the look of the case which all lights up green, the graphics are so much better, and I'm getting true 1080p display. The down side is I'm using a Xbox controller. Playing single campaigns is fine, but online is more then dreadful, it's took the fun from gaming. My son says just keep at it dad, you'll get the hang of it. I'm the guy who can't text and talk at the same time. So any help is needed. Cheers
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
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Hi Nvidiaguy07.
Did you ever get the knack for using keyboard and mouse. I'm in the same boat as you were. Played hundreds of games on console, my son made me a high end gaming PC for my 45th birthday. Love the look of the case which all lights up green, the graphics are so much better, and I'm getting true 1080p display. The down side is I'm using a Xbox controller. Playing single campaigns is fine, but online is more then dreadful, it's took the fun from gaming. My son says just keep at it dad, you'll get the hang of it. I'm the guy who can't text and talk at the same time. So any help is needed. Cheers

This thread is 3 years old, so don't expect much response from previous posters.

If you want to get the hang of online PC gaming, you have to give up the Xbox controller. PC games do not give you help when aiming, and a controller is inferior when it comes to quickly aiming. Without the aid, you'll be a sitting duck to those using a mouse.

Just use a mouse, set it to approximately 1500 DPI with the default Windows mouse speed. You can make adjustments down or up a little from there, but that isn't a bad place to start. From there, you just have to practice. Playing in single player mode may be better at first, to give you a little time to practice without being destroyed by other players. You might also need to make sure you are playing an online game that doesn't have a lot of cheaters. You can't beat someone who is in God mode.
 

Karl775

Member
Apr 15, 2015
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Thanks for the reply. I've disconnect the controller, that hurt. Been playing single campaign of COD Ghosts. I feel awkward with having my hand on two different devices at the same time. But say that I was getting better as the game went on. Tried playing squads for a while, getting 8 - 11 kills to about 5 - 7 deaths.. Felt pretty good till I went online for real. That I got this 3 - 11 deaths first game and the second game was even worse, I got nil kills and 17 deaths., back to single player for a while. Had about 4 1/2 hours to night. My other question is, do I use the KB + M for all games or just FPS. I play guild wars 2 with the KB+M, but what about third person of platform games like Max Payne 3 or the Lego games. Don't laugh I really enjoy the Lego games, it's my way of chilling. I've got a gaming KB+M coming from Amazon on Saturday. The one I'm using now is a Trust cheap and nasty one I got for about £10. So I hope after a few days using the new kit I should be ready to hold my own in most games, ( I can dream) but I think I should see an improvement. Again thanks for the advice and sorry if I bored you..lol
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
It's a personal preference deal, but if you want to adapt to using a mouse the quickest, I'd stick with it for all games unless the game really doesn't work well with it, which is rare and only something you might find to be true with console ports.

I personally use a Logitech G13 in place of a keyboard. It allows for me to easily script functionality to all my keys, and gives me a joystick to move with. The downside is you have to set it up for all games, which I tend to use a games profile that is similar to the new game and adjust from there.
 

OCNewbie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2000
7,603
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Stick with it, Karl775! It'll take time, but eventually you'll feel comfortable with it. I prefer KB+M for most games, but some games I enjoy using the controller (games like the Batman Arkham series, racing games, arcade/fighting games, etc.).
 

Karl775

Member
Apr 15, 2015
58
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I will let you know how it go's over the next few weeks. Should be a big improvement when I get the gaming KB+M. So roll on Saturday.
Thanks for all the encouragement, I really need it,
 

PrincessFrosty

Platinum Member
Feb 13, 2008
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www.frostyhacks.blogspot.com
I have heard it from numerious people on here to just suck it up and learn how to use a keyboard and mouse, and that a controller will never compare.

Yep, this is a universal truth about gaming with PCs, the superiority of the mouse and keyboard for the vast number of games is something only well understood by people capable of using them. Taking the plunge to learn is good, it'll lower your ability in the short term, but in the long run it'll free you.

The games I have played with keyboard and mouse have been very basic, so my skills arent the best. Im usually fine with WASD, and can move around fine, but when it comes to putting moves together i start to suck. (jumping and crouching through windows in half-life, sprinting and hiding behind walls, executing commands. I basically dont like to let my fingers off the same spots.

Dexterity takes a little while to develop, one thing you want to also watch for is mapping certain keys that make important combos hard, using the little finger on things like ctrl for duck and shift for walking is often preferred for example, because it doesn't impede your ability to move with WASD at the same time, consider what fingers you lose off WASD for different interactions when mapping keys, ideally you want to be able to use all functions on the move.

I also considered buying a gaming mouse with a bunch of buttons on it, but would this be considered kind of cheap? Would hardcore gamers scoff at the idea of having a bunch of actions tied to mouse buttons?

Some might scoff but generally speaking pro gamers have respect for skills so it's really just a case of use whatever gets the job done the best and let your skill speak for themselves. The only 1 warning I would give about mouse buttons is that with high sensitivity, is that moving your fingers to press side or middle mouse buttons can put your aim off a little. I sometimes map things that naturally interrupt firing/aiming on the mouse, such as reload, changing fire modes etc, and avoid mapping things like 2ndry fire. You don't want to take aim correctly and then press say middle mouse button to fire the under-barrelled grenades on a machine gun only for the action of using middle mouse button to set your aim off.

How long until I can expect to really get used to K+B? I would like eventually get good enough where i can play multiplayer and be competitive, but right now I get dominated pretty bad whenever i play any PC game online. (im decent at nexuiz, but i might be playing against people even worse than myself - so who knows)

It's different for each person, depending on how frequently you play and other factors and also how much you have to unlearn bad habits from control pad gaming such as strafing your shots over people rather than purely aiming (common for analogue stick users).

What I would say is that it's a skill that has a much lower ceiling on ability, you reach a maximum with controllers really fast and then you're limited by the control scheme, gamers with m/kb can play for decades and still be improving.

However long it takes is WELL WORTH IT, you'll be better than with a control pad inside a year easily, and you'll be able to school control pad users quickly after then but it'll just keep getting better the more you play.