Oct 9, 1999
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I love my 19" CRT but it's time for a change. I have never used an LCD so I don't really know jack about them. I do understand that the response time is valuable(lower the better). I don't really understand the native resolution part other than each LCD has one. Can someone enlighten me on this part?

I'm wanting a 17" or 19" LCD but I think my budget is more aimed towards a 17". I've googled "ghosting" and didn't have any luck finding out what it is but I do read a lot about which cheaper LCD's. What is ghosting and can someone show me some screenshots/pictures so I will it looks like?

How much should I be prepared to spend to get a decent LCD. I do medium gaming(CSS,Hl2,D3) but not heavy.

any help would be sweet:beer:
 

SunnyD

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Jan 2, 2001
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Ghosting is what happens when you have any sort of "motion video" running on an LCD with a slow response time. Bascially LCD's come with various average response times - the time at which a pixel on a screen can turn on, off or change state (color). They started out at about 40ms (milli-seconds), which means a pixel can change state about 25 times per second. Keep in mind that most live TV broadcasts are 29.77 refreshes per second, and most computer monitors refresh at 70+ per second. In a sense, response time is refresh rate.

What happens with ghosting, the pixels cannot update fast enough causing the image to blur. This is evident with slow response times and 3D graphics (games mostly) and video playback (TV Tuner or DVD).

If you're into gaming, seek out at least 16ms response screens, the lower the better. A popular model is 12ms, and they go as far as 8ms. The faster the response time, the more expensive the screen for the most part. You can pick up a decent 17" for about $220 these days.

Also, keep in mind, most 17" screens are visually as big as a 19" CRT. Another thing, it's much harder to find a 19" LCD with a fast response time.

This is a very popular, well respected monitor for a very good price if you can swallow the rebates.

Native resolution is basically exactly what it says. Unlike a CRT - an LCD has a physical number of pixels on the panel - most often 1280x1024. In order to use a different resolution (always lower), an LCD has to "scale" the image to fit, meaning it stretches an occasional pixel across adjacent pixels, which will make the image not look as smooth. If you want an example, open up MS Paint, draw something, then zoom in on it.

If this is in your budget - this one has rave reviews for a 19" monitor with 8ms response
 
Oct 9, 1999
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excellent post sunny.

I'm going to head down to best buy tonight and see about just testing some LCD's so I can get somewhat of an idea of what will fit me. That 17" looks like a great deal but I wonder how long the rebates will last..

I'll update this after tonight when I goto best buy.

thx
 

Spike

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2001
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Originally posted by: DP
excellent post sunny.

I'm going to head down to best buy tonight and see about just testing some LCD's so I can get somewhat of an idea of what will fit me. That 17" looks like a great deal but I wonder how long the rebates will last..

I'll update this after tonight when I goto best buy.

thx

Thats the perfect way to do it. Everyone can reccomend LCD's based off of reviews and personal experience (like Sunny and I myself do) but the best way is to actually try some LCD's out at the store. You can't find them all at a store but you can test LCD's with simliar features to see what the feel is like to you.

Though I know of alot of people who test the LCD at the store and then buy online this is becoming more rare as stores like CompUSA have that 0 dead pixel return policy (dunno if you have to pay for it or not) With something like that you can take back your LCD right away instead of mailing it in.
 

VIAN

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2003
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200-400 bucks on a nice 17" LCD.

LCD's have a native resolution just as CRT's have a native resolution. CRT's native resolution is the highest possible resolution at 60Hz. CRT's are just able to scale downwards with minimal image quality loss as compare to an LCD where things can get blurry and ugly. This is why you will want to keep LCDs at native resolution most of the time, unless they have good scaling abilities, some do. If the one you have doesn't, you will need a good graphics card to get good framerates at 1280x1024 resolutions for 17".

Response time is something to worry about when buy LCDs. The lower the better as it produces less ghosting. Ghosting is like a slow framerate on a CRT. Go play a fast first person shooter on your CRT and limit it to 30fps or 40fps and look at the floor, it's blurry, it'll look something like that, but applied to the entire screen. Currently available is 8ms with 4ms coming soon. 16ms is considered acceptable, but not great. Then again, specs really mean nothing as every manufacturer test their specs differently. This is why many people recommend that you go to a retail store to check out an LCD. This is a problem. LCDs arent' configured best at the retail stores and there probably won't be any game to see them in action. Which sucks. Anyway, ghosting will still be there at 8ms, although, minimal. See, when they say 8ms, it could have reached a max speed of 8ms for a bit and then be on 16-20ms the rest of the time.

Another thing that LCDs have is how many colors they support. Yes some say they support all colors, and I say I'm black. I'm not, no offense to anyone who is. Just to show that they lie. There are panels with 8-bit colors that support all colors, and those with 6-bit color that don't support all colors. So how do they support the rest of the colors. The dither which can leave sparkles in large color areas. Stupid ass manufacturers.

Another important issue with LCDs is the viewing angle. Some LCDs have great viewing angles. Others have crappy viewing angles. The ones you are most concerned with are the verticle viewing angles. I wouldn't get anything under 160 and that's kinda pushing it. The goal is 180, but you'll won't find an LCD like that. If you go beyond the angle threshold you will lose contrast and colors past the angle threshold will get weird.

Another important issue with LCDs is dead pixels. Pixels that are stuck on white only, black only, red only, blue only, green only. They suck and are allowed to ship. These defects are none returnable to almost all companies unless you have a certain amount of them on the screen which is quite frustrating to have one right in the middle. Especially if it's a white on when you are trying to play a dark game/movie or a colored one. Manufacturers say dead pixels are rare. Indeed they are rare compared to the amount of good pixels that are produced. Although, they are not rare on a panel basis. This is true because, if dead pixels were allowed to be returned, prices on LCDs would go up significantly.

If you have no problems with all this stuff, happy sailing. IMO it's too much of a risk for so much money. I'd stick with the CRT. But there are many people out there with great working LCDs that love them and won't ever switch back. You have to make the decision.

This is a pretty decent one for pretty cheap if the specs ring true: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=24-001-171&depa=0, Samsung allows you to return it only if you have 10 dead pixels. Kind of standard in the industry.
 

edmundoab

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2003
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yeap that hyundai works awesome..
only removing the stand is a pain.

but for its price .. the quality is definately there.
Im lucky I got mine with 0 deadpixels
 

VIAN

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2003
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the viewing angles look weak, how is it moving up and down while looking at the screen.
 

jonsbox

Junior Member
Mar 3, 2005
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As far as the LCDs go whats the deal with 2d images? I've read in some reviews, that on alot of the new 19 inch low response time moniters movies dont look good.
 
Oct 9, 1999
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was looking at brands at best buy and saw this one

for that price and it had either 12ms or 16ms. almost bought it but figured since i've never heard of that brand i'd wait.
does brand really matter as long as the specs are ok?
 

VIAN

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2003
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Westinghouse, isn't that a K-mart brand. Or at least they started that way.

Brand - is very important.

Then again, specs really mean nothing as every manufacturer test their specs differently. This is why many people recommend that you go to a retail store to check out an LCD.
- 5 posts up.
 
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: VIAN
Westinghouse, isn't that a K-mart brand. Or at least they started that way.

Brand - is very important.

Then again, specs really mean nothing as every manufacturer test their specs differently. This is why many people recommend that you go to a retail store to check out an LCD.
- 5 posts up.

didn't even see that post

reading now=]

ty
 

Hadsus

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2003
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Regarding all these supposed LCD problems......for one, I wouldn't worry about viewing angle. I don't know about you, but when I use my rig I sit in front of my monitor. I don't sit in a couch off to the side. I'm not standing up. I'm not lying on the floor. If you plan to spend any amount of time with your rig you're gonna want to choose the a position where your eyes are staring near the top of the screen. There is no viewing angle issue with this. Dead pixels? If you order a Dell, you can return it. If you order from BB or CC, or other BM stores....just return it. Usually they give you a week or so anyway on just about anything you buy. No fuss no muss. Colors? Pull up a good high res photographic image that you are familiar with.....say, with people and look at the fleshtones. Compare LCD with CRT and tell me which looks better. With my Dell, it wins easily over my 19" Hitachi CRT. Oh, and no ghosting with my 2001fp. IMO, alot of these supposed LCD disadvantages are red herrings.
 

VIAN

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2003
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Yes, if you order from Dell, you get to return in within 21 days, and retail stores you also get to return it I think. You can still get a dead pixel, however this is rare for one to develop.

I took the color comments from reviewers, so..