lcd monitors

[onearmedscissor]

what are the advantages an lcd monitor has over a crt monitor, besides size? if i wanted a 20 inch viewable monitor, would it be better to get a 20 inch lcd or a 20 inch viewable crt?

also, why are lcd monitors so much more expensive than lcd and plasma tvs? is it viable to use an lcd or plasma tv as a monitor? and i noticed that many 40" lcd monitors have a resolution of 1024x768. wouldn't that look really horrible with that size screen?

why do 20" viewable lcds have lower max resolutions that 20" viewable crts. and on the lcd monitor i have, the max refresh rate is pretty low. isn't that bad for my eyes?

right now, i mainly use a 17.8" viewable crt with 1600x1200 res and 75hz refresh rate. i am thinking of getting a new monitor, and i want a big one. i would want it mainly for watching anime, but i watch mostly fansubs, which are tv rips, so would the quality look really bad on a big monitor? i watch a few feet back from the screen and on the monitor i use now, i can't really notice that the quality is only tv quality. i also play games like hl2 and doom3 sometimes, and i watch dvds a little. i read forums a lot too. so i would need an all around good monitor, but one that would be especially good for watching tv rip quality anime.

i was also thinking of getting a dvd player that can play divx files and a big lcd or plasma tv screen, but how would the tv rip quality look on that? i don't watch too many mpeg2 dvds either, so it would mostly be for avi files (with subtitles). and do any dvd players play ogm files?

if i got a widescreen computer monitor, how would 4:3 ratio video look on it? would there just be black on each side in full screen?

and the lcd monitor i have has a problem with ghosting when i play games like counter strike. i heard that if i hook it up digitally to a video card, that problem will go away. is this true? and what are the other advantages of digitally connecting it? also, what kind of video card would i need? right now i have an ati radeon 9700 pro, but i could get a better one if i needed it.

one thing i don't like about lcds is that from a side angle the colour gets messed up and the screen looks darker. do all lcd monitors have this problem and is there any way to fix it?

what monitors would you guys recommend for me? i kind of want one bigger than 20" viewable, but they are pretty expensive. please give me some recommendations. thanks!

 

[Wightout]

the angle thing is gone on the LCDs from apple, but the price is a weeeee bit higher then the others out there

 

[Zebo]

22" diamondtron is better in almost everyway to LCD..even sharpness is so close it's indescerable. And at non-native it blows LCD away.

Only two things LCD has going for it which I consider irrelevent to picture Q. Thin/light and so-called minimum eyestrain..

 

[onearmedscissor]

do they make any bigger crt monitors than 20" viewable?

edit: nevermind, i just found one.

 

[Ken90630]

It's late and I'm tired, but I'll jot down a few quick thoughts off the top of my head and let the other guys chime in as they wish.

Comparably sized LCD computer monitors are NOT more expensive than LCD TVs and plasma TVs. You have this backwards. It's the other way around.

The advantages of an LCD monitor, in general, are that they take up less space, draw less current, are much easier on the eyes with prolonged use, have better screen geometry, and usually offer crisper text (particularly with ClearType enabled on a Windows XP machine). The advantages of CRTs are better color integrity, deeper blacks, lower cost, and better full motion performance (with no ghosting sometimes associated with slow LCD panels). Common probs with some LCD panels include stuck or dead pixels, uneven backlighting, inferior color performance, higher cost (for both the initial purchase and repairs), and ghosting if the pixel response time isn't fast enough. It's generally held now that 25ms response times are the minimum for gaming or full motion performance, with 16 or 12ms pixel responses being preferable. But it varies from monitor to monitor, and some manufacturers cheat by listing response time specs that aren't really accurate.

The refresh rates you mention are also affected by your video card, not just the monitor. You need to have a card that will support the refresh rate you want to run your monitor at (at least 75 Hz and preferably higher if possible).

and the lcd monitor i have has a problem with ghosting when i play games like counter strike. i heard that if i hook it up digitally to a video card, that problem will go away. is this true?

No. Ghosting/trailing will typically be caused by slow pixel response time on an LCD monitor, not the video card or whether or not it's hooked up "digitally."

With the usage you're describing, a CRT will give you the best performance. LCDs simply have not quite caught up to CRTs yet in terms of full motion video response or color accuracy, although the performance gap keeps getting narrower. Having said that, however, you may find a 20" LCD that can handle your video needs to your satisfaction. I'd just go to a few stores and try some LCD monitors out if I were in your shoes. Good brands include Apple, Princeton Graphics, Iiyama, Planar, Viewsonic, Samsung and Sony. And some guys around here swear by Dell LCD monitors. :Q Stay away from the likes of KDS, Star Logic, and CTX brands (cheapy).

I need to get some sleep. Hope you find this info useful.

 

[MaverickBP]

Originally posted by: Zebo
22" diamondtron is better in almost everyway to LCD..even sharpness is so close it's indescerable. And at non-native it blows LCD away.

Only two things LCD has going for it which I consider irrelevent to picture Q. Thin/light and so-called minimum eyestrain..

couldnt say it better

 

[Spike]

Originally posted by: MaverickBP

Originally posted by: Zebo
22" diamondtron is better in almost everyway to LCD..even sharpness is so close it's indescerable. And at non-native it blows LCD away.

Only two things LCD has going for it which I consider irrelevent to picture Q. Thin/light and so-called minimum eyestrain..

couldnt say it better

As an owner of a 21" (20" viewable) Nokia CRT and a 20.1" Dell widescreen LCD, I would disagree. As a Hardcore gamer, web surfer, and forum reader I find the LCD MUCH better than my CRT. Though the quality of my CRT is not has high as it used to be, don't believe anyone that tells you a CRT's text quality is even close to a LCD's. Gaming on a CRT is better for non-native resolutions and there are less tearing issues, but as long as you have the hardware to run the LCD in native (1680x1050 in my case) they look beautiful. I did alot of going back and forth and definitly prefer gaming on the LCD, not to mention that hauling a 20lbs monitor to a lan party is much easier than a 75lbs beast.

If you compared DVD watching side by side you can see that it's a toss up with the edge (in my opinion) going to the CRT. The colors seem brighter and more virbant on a LCD, but darks are either washed out or have no definition on a LCD. I get annoyed when watching a movie with alot of dark scenes but other than that widescreen LCD movie viewing is decent (if you want the best of both worlds fork out the $$ for a 22" widescreen CRT)

Overall I am very happy with my purchase of a widescreen LCD over a new CRT. Hope that helps

-spike

 

[corkyg]

Two major advantages for LCD over CRT that are not mentioned above:

1. LCD produces much less heat, uses less energy. In my world, where room temperatures are a serious consideration, my comfort level has increased greatly since switching from two 19-in CRTs to 19-in LCDs.

2. Size and weight are a big difference. It is much easier to move a 19-in LCD than a same size CRT, and they take up a lot less space on the desktop.

3. There is a big difference in radiation energy - CRTs produce much higher levels of muwave radiation - a contributor to eyestrain. In a related difference, LCDs are refresh-rate independent - they don't refresh because they are staring devices with iluminated pixels as opposed to electron beam scanning.

I switched almost 3 years ago and will never go back to CRTs

 

[onearmedscissor]

thanks for all the info everyone!

 

[Zebo]

Nokia CRT

comparing a budget CRT to a Diamondtron.:roll:

ANY LCD is Better than your CRT.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Ken90630
It's late and I'm tired, but I'll jot down a few quick thoughts off the top of my head and let the other guys chime in as they wish.

Comparably sized LCD computer monitors are NOT more expensive than LCD TVs and plasma TVs. You have this backwards. It's the other way around.

The advantages of an LCD monitor, in general, are that they take up less space, draw less current, are much easier on the eyes with prolonged use, have better screen geometry, and usually offer crisper text (particularly with ClearType enabled on a Windows XP machine). The advantages of CRTs are better color integrity, deeper blacks, lower cost, and better full motion performance (with no ghosting sometimes associated with slow LCD panels). Common probs with some LCD panels include stuck or dead pixels, uneven backlighting, inferior color performance, higher cost (for both the initial purchase and repairs), and ghosting if the pixel response time isn't fast enough. It's generally held now that 25ms response times are the minimum for gaming or full motion performance, with 16 or 12ms pixel responses being preferable. But it varies from monitor to monitor, and some manufacturers cheat by listing response time specs that aren't really accurate.

The refresh rates you mention are also affected by your video card, not just the monitor. You need to have a card that will support the refresh rate you want to run your monitor at (at least 75 Hz and preferably higher if possible).

and the lcd monitor i have has a problem with ghosting when i play games like counter strike. i heard that if i hook it up digitally to a video card, that problem will go away. is this true?

No. Ghosting/trailing will typically be caused by slow pixel response time on an LCD monitor, not the video card or whether or not it's hooked up "digitally."

With the usage you're describing, a CRT will give you the best performance. LCDs simply have not quite caught up to CRTs yet in terms of full motion video response or color accuracy, although the performance gap keeps getting narrower. Having said that, however, you may find a 20" LCD that can handle your video needs to your satisfaction. I'd just go to a few stores and try some LCD monitors out if I were in your shoes. Good brands include Apple, Princeton Graphics, Iiyama, Planar, Viewsonic, Samsung and Sony. And some guys around here swear by Dell LCD monitors. :Q Stay away from the likes of KDS, Star Logic, and CTX brands (cheapy).

I need to get some sleep. Hope you find this info useful.

Reall good post.. I've typed this up so many times did'nt feel like i again.

Couple things..

All LCD's are above 20ms dispite manufctures lies. They rate at one color, naturally they choose the best color for thier monitor, but on average they will be above 20ms. 5-8ms steady is where the ghosting stops. Technology is not there yet.

CRT's are 400us, just say instant response for all practical purposes.

The cheapest LCD is better quality than 80% of CRT's. It's only when you get to highend AG's, CRT's are worth a look. Then you decide do you want instant response, good color, multiple resolutions... or crisp text, thin, eye easy.. cause price is the same.

 

[onearmedscissor]

can you guys give me some recommendations on what monitor to get? thanks!

 

[Zebo]

Samsung 213T or NEC FP2141SB-BK

I would get both and return one you don't like.

 

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: Ken90630
It's late and I'm tired, but I'll jot down a few quick thoughts off the top of my head and let the other guys chime in as they wish.

Comparably sized LCD computer monitors are NOT more expensive than LCD TVs and plasma TVs. You have this backwards. It's the other way around.

The advantages of an LCD monitor, in general, are that they take up less space, draw less current, are much easier on the eyes with prolonged use, have better screen geometry, and usually offer crisper text (particularly with ClearType enabled on a Windows XP machine). The advantages of CRTs are better color integrity, deeper blacks, lower cost, and better full motion performance (with no ghosting sometimes associated with slow LCD panels). Common probs with some LCD panels include stuck or dead pixels, uneven backlighting, inferior color performance, higher cost (for both the initial purchase and repairs), and ghosting if the pixel response time isn't fast enough. It's generally held now that 25ms response times are the minimum for gaming or full motion performance, with 16 or 12ms pixel responses being preferable. But it varies from monitor to monitor, and some manufacturers cheat by listing response time specs that aren't really accurate.

The refresh rates you mention are also affected by your video card, not just the monitor. You need to have a card that will support the refresh rate you want to run your monitor at (at least 75 Hz and preferably higher if possible).

and the lcd monitor i have has a problem with ghosting when i play games like counter strike. i heard that if i hook it up digitally to a video card, that problem will go away. is this true?

No. Ghosting/trailing will typically be caused by slow pixel response time on an LCD monitor, not the video card or whether or not it's hooked up "digitally."

With the usage you're describing, a CRT will give you the best performance. LCDs simply have not quite caught up to CRTs yet in terms of full motion video response or color accuracy, although the performance gap keeps getting narrower. Having said that, however, you may find a 20" LCD that can handle your video needs to your satisfaction. I'd just go to a few stores and try some LCD monitors out if I were in your shoes. Good brands include Apple, Princeton Graphics, Iiyama, Planar, Viewsonic, Samsung and Sony. And some guys around here swear by Dell LCD monitors. :Q Stay away from the likes of KDS, Star Logic, and CTX brands (cheapy).

I need to get some sleep. Hope you find this info useful.

Great post - this basically sums it up.


I've owned both a 22" Diamondtron monitor (NEC/Mitsu FP2141SB-BK) and I now own a Dell 2005FPW, which is what I replaced the Diamondtron with. Each has its advantages and disadvantages - but the LCD was better for me overall.

The main points in favor of the CRT:
-Extremely fast refresh rates - awesome for gaming (109Hz at 1600x1200)
-Probably better color reproduction (most importantly, much deeper blacks than are possible on an LCD)

However, the problems I had with the CRT outweighed those advantages (for me):
-The monitor (and the replacement that Dell sent me) was just not clear or sharp at higher resolutions and refresh rates - the resolutions and refresh rates which I had basically bought the monitor for. (had the same problems on another video card as well; was probably just pushing the limits of the analog signal)
-Geometry was pretty problematic - the NaviSet program was quite good as far as allowing many different types of adjustments, but I just couldn't get it "right" - the convergence was particularly problematic (fix one part and then another part of the screen is messed up...)
-It weighed 70 pounds and took up the entire desk (obviously this is something inherent to CRT's, but as a college student who moves and does LAN parties often, it just isn't practical - although I was willing to live with it if I thought the monitor was worth it otherwise)

Now, the things I like about the LCD I have:
-Perfect geometry
-Clear pixel-perfect image when connected over DVI
-Thin, light, etc.
-Widescreen, can rotate to portrait mode

Bad things about the LCD:
-GHOSTING. I didn't capitalize that because it's awful on this monitor, but because it's still there on likely every LCD monitor that exists. It's noticeable when gaming, but I've decided it's not bad enough to want to toss the monitor. Along these same lines, you're basically limited to 60fps - which is obviously acceptable even in fast-paced games, but 100+fps is a lot better. Keep in mind not everyone notices ghosting, and not everyone can tell the difference between 60fps and 100fps.
-Black is not black. In a dark room, the LCD's "black" actually appears as more of a gray. That's just something you have to live with on LCD's, and luckily it doesn't appear quite that drastic when you're in a lighted room.


Those are the main points that I can think of right now. If I had money to burn, I'd definitely get a 22" (really 20" viewable) Diamondtron again and use that solely for gaming, and use the LCD for everything else. However, this is the real world, and I can only afford one $500+ monitor, so the LCD is it for me. I also realize it's entirely possible that I got two bad CRT's, but at that point I just didn't have the time to mess with more replacements trying to get it "right" (or having to move the CRT in case it was in some sort of electromagnetic field, etc.). With the LCD, that's not an issue at all.

So basically...what I'm trying to say is that everyone has their requirements for a monitor, and unfortunately nothing yet exists that is the best at everything. All you can really do is decide what's important to you, and then do a lot of research (and since people often have differing and vocal opinions on this subject, there's no substitute for actually getting hands-on experience with a monitor).

 

[onearmedscissor]

thanks again! i usually watch anime on my monitor at about a 38 degrees angle so if i got an lcd, would the colour look all messed up at that angle?

 

[xtknight]

Just thought I'd give my 2 cents here, and please read my whole post, because you won't like the first three sentences.

If you're looking for ghosting you'll find it. You'll find a lot of it on any LCD produced in the next 5 years probably. Now after reading that you probably say, "well I'm a hardcore gamer, and if LCDs ghost a lot, they are a horrible option for my use". Stop there. I'm a hardcore gamer as well and I was very skeptical about LCDs until I actually TRIED one. When I start up my games, I don't say "oooh look at that ghosting, this LCD sucks." In fact, most of the time I don't even notice it in the least and don't even think about it after starting the game up. The exception is the first 10-20 times you start the game. You really do notice it a lot. After a while, it really turns into a non-issue and you pay 95% of your focus on the game, not the "cool" ghosting effects. Thus, you don't notice it; you forget about it. This is something hard to explain but I hope you take my word for it. People that just go to their local store and decide to try a game on the LCDs one time will be instantly drifted away, and I can understand that. The first time I started up Wolfenstein on this LCD I was pretty worried too. Especially with dark on light scenes. Come a week or two, I didn't even think about it anymore. The third or fourth day I had my LCD I just "forgot" about the ghosting. You HAVE to try the LCD for about four days to a week to know what I mean, you absolutely MUST. The first day you'll be thinking, "this will never get better, it looks horrible". Actually, it DOES after a while. I hope this influences some people's decisions.

 

[Ken90630]

Originally posted by: onearmedscissor
thanks again! i usually watch anime on my monitor at about a 38 degrees angle so if i got an lcd, would the colour look all messed up at that angle?

Not likely. Most LCD monitors nowadays have 176-degree viewing angles or comparable, so a 38-degree angle should look fine. When you do some research (which you are going to do, right? ), just look at the viewing angle specs.

So basically...what I'm trying to say is that everyone has their requirements for a monitor, and unfortunately nothing yet exists that is the best at everything. All you can really do is decide what's important to you, and then do a lot of research (and since people often have differing and vocal opinions on this subject, there's no substitute for actually getting hands-on experience with a monitor).

Exactly.

One other thing: If you decide to get an LCD monitor, get one with a DVI (digital video interface) input (paired with a video card with a DVI output, of course). You will get a sharper picture, and the cost differences between analog-only and DVI-equipped LCD monitors typically aren't that significant anymore. And many nice mainstream LCD monitors have two inputs: one analog and one DVI. That way if your present vid card doesn't do DVI out, you could get the monitor now and then upgrade the card later and then you'd be set.

 

[onearmedscissor]

thanks for all the help!