Lawyer Argues Sex With Deer Not A Crime.

KarenMarie

Elite Member
Sep 20, 2003
14,372
6
81
Prosecution of a Douglas County case involving alleged sexual contact with a dead deer may hinge on the legal definition of the word ?animal.?

Bryan James Hathaway, 20, of Superior faces a misdemeanor charge of sexual gratification with an animal. He is accused of having sex with a dead deer he saw beside Stinson Avenue on Oct. 11.

A motion filed last week by his attorney, public defender Fredric Anderson, argued that because the deer was dead, it was not considered an animal and the charge should be dismissed.

?The statute does not prohibit one from having sex with a carcass,? Anderson wrote.

Judge Michael Lucci heard the motion Tuesday.

?I?m a little surprised this issue hasn?t been tackled before in another case,? Lucci said.

The Webster?s dictionary defines ?animal? as ?any of a kingdom of living beings,? Anderson said.

If you include carcasses in that definition, he said, ?you really go down a slippery slope with absurd results.?

Anderson argued: When does a turkey cease to be an animal? When it is dead?

When it is wrapped in plastic packaging in the freezer? When it is served, fully cooked?

A judge should decide what the Legislature intended ?animal? to mean in the statute, he said. ?And the only clear point to draw the line in that definition, I believe, is the point of death.?

Assistant District Attorney James Boughner said the court can use a dictionary to determine the meaning of the word, but it doesn?t have to.

?The common and ordinary meaning of a word can be found in how people actually use the word,? Boughner wrote in his response to the motion.

When a person?s pet dog dies, he told Lucci, the person still refers to the dog as his or her dog, not a carcass.

?It stays a dog for some time,? Boughner said.

He referred to the criminal complaint, in which Hathaway told police he saw the dead deer in the ditch and moved it into the woods. Hathaway called it a dead deer, Boughner said, not a carcass.

?It did not lose its essence as a deer, an animal, when it died,? he said.

Anderson argued that the statute, which falls under the heading ?crimes against sexual morality,? was meant to protect animals. That would be unnecessary in the case of a dead animal.

?If you look at the other crimes that are in this subsection, they all protect against something other than simply things we don?t like or things we find disgusting,? he said.

Other crimes in that subsection include incest, bigamy, public fornication and lewd and lascivious behavior.

Boughner said the focus of the statute was on punishing the human behavior, not protecting animals.

?It does not seem to draw a line between the living and the dead,? he said.

Interpreting the statute to exclude dead animals would also exclude freshly killed animals, Boughner said. That, he said, could lead to people who commit such acts with animals to kill them.

Lucci said he would render a decision by Hathaway?s next court appearance on Dec. 1.

The misdemeanor charge carries a maximum penalty of nine months in jail and a fine of up to $10,000. If convicted, Hathaway could serve a prison term of up to two years because of a previous conviction. In April 2005, Hathaway pleaded no contest to one felony charge of mistreatment of an animal for the shooting death of Bambrick, a 26-year-old horse, to have sex with the animal.


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Juice Box

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 2003
9,615
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It is amazing what a good lawyer can do for idiots :p

edit: not saying he should get off (no pun intended), but rather, for the right price....lawyers will argue anything :p
 

pnad

Senior member
May 23, 2006
405
1
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Wow, at least this didn't happen in my home state. Wisconsin - land of the sickos :)

Imagine driving along and seeing this. I'd crash while laughing.
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
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I don't know about you guys, but from a lawyer perspective this case looks almost fun.
 

Canai

Diamond Member
Oct 4, 2006
8,016
1
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I hope that guy's pic is all over the news in his hometown ahahhahaha.... with a dead deer on the side of the road wtf....
 

DaShen

Lifer
Dec 1, 2000
10,710
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Originally posted by: Juice Box
It is amazing what a good lawyer can do for idiots :p

edit: not saying he should get off (no pun intended), but rather, for the right price....lawyers will argue anything :p

QFT. Of course, that is the lawyers job though. And if he takes up a case, it is his ethical duty to do everything in his legal power to fight for who he represents. Of course, there is a fine line between legal ethics and what is personally morally helpful.
 

Savij

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
4,233
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Other than the fact that the dude was outside, why should we care? Does it really affect anyone if I go home and have relatons with my ham sandwich?
 

Pastore

Diamond Member
Feb 9, 2000
9,728
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The defense has a case... The charge that was brought was having sex with an animal, but if the animal is dead how can it be considered as such. Is it against the law to stick your jimmy into a frozen turkey?
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,482
20,006
146
In April 2005, Hathaway pleaded no contest to one felony charge of mistreatment of an animal for the shooting death of Bambrick, a 26-year-old horse, to have sex with the animal.

This guy is really sick.
 

DaShen

Lifer
Dec 1, 2000
10,710
1
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Originally posted by: Savij
Other than the fact that the dude was outside, why should we care? Does it really affect anyone if I go home and have relatons with my ham sandwich?

Slippery slope.

Interviews with serial rapists, you find that all of them first started with pornagraphy and moved slowly to more kinky things and more porn. Eventually it escalates.

But I understand your point. The fact of the matter is that this guy did do this outside. But the behavior could escalate into even sicker and more harmful behavior. That is one of the reasons these laws are put into place. (of course one can argue that there are religious and personal ethics involved in this, but big picture it limits the "slide" to harmful behavior)
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,482
20,006
146
Originally posted by: DaShen
Originally posted by: Savij
Other than the fact that the dude was outside, why should we care? Does it really affect anyone if I go home and have relatons with my ham sandwich?

Slippery slope.

Interviews with serial rapists, you find that all of them first started with pornagraphy and moved slowly to more kinky things and more porn. Eventually it escalates.

But I understand your point. The fact of the matter is that this guy did do this outside. But the behavior could escalate into even sicker and more harmful behavior. That is one of the reasons these laws are put into place. (of course one can argue that there are religious and personal ethics involved in this, but big picture it limits the "slide" to harmful behavior)

Not to mention the dude has a history of KILLING ANIMALS TO HAVE SEX WITH THEM.
 

Pastore

Diamond Member
Feb 9, 2000
9,728
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76
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: DaShen
Originally posted by: Savij
Other than the fact that the dude was outside, why should we care? Does it really affect anyone if I go home and have relatons with my ham sandwich?

Slippery slope.

Interviews with serial rapists, you find that all of them first started with pornagraphy and moved slowly to more kinky things and more porn. Eventually it escalates.

But I understand your point. The fact of the matter is that this guy did do this outside. But the behavior could escalate into even sicker and more harmful behavior. That is one of the reasons these laws are put into place. (of course one can argue that there are religious and personal ethics involved in this, but big picture it limits the "slide" to harmful behavior)

Not to mention the dude has a history of KILLING ANIMALS TO HAVE SEX WITH THEM.

Then charge him for killing them, not having sex with them. If you don't want people havin sex with dead animals, make a necro law that applies to animals, or if one already exists, charge them with that.

EDIT: Most states don't even have laws against it with humans! Link
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
Having sex with deer roadkill ranks up there with the most disgusting things I've ever heard of.

However, I think his argument makes sense. If this is a "crime", who is the "victim"?
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
Originally posted by: DaShen
Originally posted by: Savij
Other than the fact that the dude was outside, why should we care? Does it really affect anyone if I go home and have relatons with my ham sandwich?

Slippery slope.

Interviews with serial rapists, you find that all of them first started with pornagraphy and moved slowly to more kinky things and more porn. Eventually it escalates.

But I understand your point. The fact of the matter is that this guy did do this outside. But the behavior could escalate into even sicker and more harmful behavior. That is one of the reasons these laws are put into place. (of course one can argue that there are religious and personal ethics involved in this, but big picture it limits the "slide" to harmful behavior)

You mention "slippery slope", but do you really want to punish people now because they might do something harmful inthe future?
 

DaShen

Lifer
Dec 1, 2000
10,710
1
0
Originally posted by: Amused
In April 2005, Hathaway pleaded no contest to one felony charge of mistreatment of an animal for the shooting death of Bambrick, a 26-year-old horse, to have sex with the animal.

This guy is really sick.

Agreed. It is obvious that this individual is at a point where his behavior is harmful to society. He is already killing to gratify his twisted fantasies. If he was not caught, this behavior could have escalated into humans.

I would bet any psychiatrist would find that this person was a loner as a child with tendencies for outbursts. Hard to control and narcissistic, but because of his aloof nature, I bet this was never really caught. He probably got gratification with hurting animals and insects as a kid. He was probably exposed to pornography at a young age, and is not gratified by normal sex anymore. Again, if he wasn't caught, his behavior probably would have escalated into humans.
 

SoulAssassin

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
6,135
2
0
I really can't contemplate the reasoning that would lead you from 'hey look at that dead deer over there' to 'let me stick my pecker in it'.
 

DaShen

Lifer
Dec 1, 2000
10,710
1
0
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: DaShen
Originally posted by: Savij
Other than the fact that the dude was outside, why should we care? Does it really affect anyone if I go home and have relatons with my ham sandwich?

Slippery slope.

Interviews with serial rapists, you find that all of them first started with pornagraphy and moved slowly to more kinky things and more porn. Eventually it escalates.

But I understand your point. The fact of the matter is that this guy did do this outside. But the behavior could escalate into even sicker and more harmful behavior. That is one of the reasons these laws are put into place. (of course one can argue that there are religious and personal ethics involved in this, but big picture it limits the "slide" to harmful behavior)

You mention "slippery slope", but do you really want to punish people now because they might do something harmful inthe future?

If the behavior has a very high percentage of harmful behavior, then it is acceptable to make a rule or law against it.

For instance, a kid that runs around with scissors isn't by itself harmful, but the behavior can easily and has a high percentage of very harmful things happening, so adults limit this behavior by setting rules and guidelines -- such is social ethics and laws.