Law School? Chances of getting in?

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Thanks glen. Looks like another test to take and dish out a few hundred bucks for

 

[yellowperil]

I was planning on med school until I became a junior, then grad school in psychology and finally decided on law school last year. They seem more lenient on what curriculum you have than other gradate/professional schools. My GPA was pretty bad (around 2.8 at one point, now at 3.24) but I did OK on the LSAT. The LSAT itself is easier than the MCAT and the GRE, just make sure you are *very* specific when you are reasoning out the choices. I blew the logic games section (answered only half the questions) but still scored in the 95th percentile. Taking a bunch of practice tests was the best way for me to prepare (damn you Kaplan for wasting my money, j/k). I got into UF but am still waiting for Duke. Not holding my breath on it though.

Bruno: Almost all law schools require the LSAT. I haven't seen any that don't.

 

[glen]

Here is what people ALWAYS over look.
You spend how much time in college? 4 years or more
You spend how much money in college? $50,000 or more
Now, the entrance exam, such as the MCAT or LSAT or GRE, typically count as much towards admission to the school.
Even if you spent 4 years and $50,000 on test preparation, it would STILL be worth it.

 

[CSoup]

<< not real sure, but that 2.9 is gonna hurt you. >>



yeah, that is really going to hurt you. The top 20 law schools and business schools try to maintain a high acceptance GPA for purpose of keeping their reputation high. You might want to try smaller less know schools if you really want to become a lawyer. How well you do on the LSAT will have an effect also. What are you going into? Patent law? As always, applying won't hurt you and you can play the numbers game and apply to a ton of schools. You might get lucky and get into the one you want.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

How do schools rank as far as turning out students? Does going to one of the top 20 mean that much? Does going to a smaller school prepare you just as well?

If I go I don't plan on being a lawyer, it would be more for fun than anything. I'd focus on accounting, but having a law thingy would be handy for a lot of the stuff accounting firms face=more bling.

So if a degree from a decent place will suffice, that's what I would rather do (rather than going to some ritzy place and not getting anything out of it). Is name a big deal?

 

[shopbruin]

ace the lsat's, and then you can look at some higher up schools, but i don't think you can get into a lot of tier 1 schools (i.e. the yales and harvards)

i personally want to go to santa clara university for law school...

and i'm FAIRLY certain lsat's are required... since it does stand for law school admissions test...

 

[glen]

You want to get in to Law School.
Then do well.
Then get into New York University School of Law "Graduate Tax Program."

How to contact the Graduate Tax Program:
Tax Law Office
NYU School of Law
40 Washington Square South, Room 430
New York, NY 10012-1099
Phone: (212) 998-6150
Fax: (212) 995-4075
Email: law.taxprograms@nyu.edu

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

My mother worked for some years on the entrance committee of a top-25 law school. The entire law-school entrance process is very numerically-driven. In most instances the school adds your LSAT score to some multiple of your GPA to determine eligibility. Extracurriculars or work experience are generally only helpful for people who are borderline candidates based on their GPA and LSAT scores. This will make the LSAT paramount in your case. I had a 3.4 GPA and 97th percentile LSATs, and got into a few top-25 law schools; YMMV.

Think VERY carefully before embarking on this - to me law school is not worth the time, money, and agony unless you can get into a decent school. Plenty of bright people endure three years of hell only to emerge to a very thin job market and few prospects.

 

I'm headed to law school soon. My sis just graduated from law school and passed the California exam. She's now practicing law. I feel I have a upper hand with advice from my experienced sis.

From what I've read and been told by my sis: You are at an advantage as an engineering major. That is, your GPA at that rate would be considered over a history or political science major with 3.8 GPA for instance. Your LSAT is given soooo much weight by most schools at least. So you must work hard to score really high.

The score ranges from 165 and more for what high profile schools usually want. It's strange though that at a law usenet group I saw a story about some student who was suing Boalt Hall for distress and a few other descriptives 'cuz he had a 2.9 and scored 173 in his LSAT but was denied admissions 'cuz his qualifications were just "not competitive in the Boalt Hall environment".

So, keep in mind that you might not have the chances at some schools you wish to go to, particularly Ivy League schools.

Your references really matter. Even if it were years, years ago since you graduated from college, you must go back and find professors for references. (That sucks! LOL!)

Try to write a great personal statement too.

Anyway, it is always best to be sure about yourself and your goal with a law degree. My sis told me of many students she encountered who were just there just because . . . they were bored and wanted something to waste their time with. And then yeaars later they don't even practice with it anymore.

The worse part is that Law school is sooo costly . . . man! So you better be going there to get your money's worth! It's good to be focused and excel in whatever you do. Anyway, I hope this helps.

 

[BruinEd03]

Thanks for the great advice so far!!

I'm not even bothering to look at the top 5 for law school...as for tiers what's the definition of "tier 1" and "tier 2" etc.? Here's a list of schoosl I'm considering so far (not schools i'd actually apply to yet):

Pray baby pray!! I believe in Miracles!! :
Duke
Michigan
University of Pennsylvania

Let's sneak it by the admission people:
Cornell
Northwestern
UCLA

Chances gettin' better
USC (yes that school )
Boston College
University of Illinois at Urbana Champagin
University of North Carolina Chapel Hill

Back up! Would still be happy goin' if I didn't get into above
University of Notre Dame
Boston University
Ohio State
William and Mary
Fordham University


-Ed

 

[BruinEd03]

night ^

-Ed

 

The tier simply means ranking/class. I do know that the lesser the number the better the school. I am all for a school in the first tier.

Here's a list of law school ranking: Law school ranking.

If you look on the lower left corner, you'll see schools categorised by tier. The link I provided you takes you straight to the top law schools (I think up to about 54). So, if you want to see the others, just click on the referred link.

Also, if you want details about the schools' application deadlines, average undergrad. GPA, average LSAT score, tuition, etc., check out Princeton Review.

Don't be discouraged or daunted with the numbers you see there.

I hope that answers enough of your questions.

 

[ElFenix]

go get a 170 on the LSAT. and go get some extra curriculars. volunteer. and hang out with your professors. good letters from 2 professors and an employer would help a whole lot.

/me crosses fingers that UT accepts

/me then crosses more fingers that if UT doesn't UH does


<--- still can't believe he missed 4 questions of 6 on the first logic problem (only got 1 other wrong, the last one that time ran out and guessed of the remaining 2 answers)

 

[BruinEd03]

<< The tier simply means ranking/class. I do know that the lesser the number the better the school. I am all for a school in the first tier.

Here's a list of law school ranking: Law school ranking.

If you look on the lower left corner, you'll see schools categorised by tier. The link I provided you takes you straight to the top law schools (I think up to about 54). So, if you want to see the others, just click on the referred link.

Also, if you want details about the schools' application deadlines, average undergrad. GPA, average LSAT score, tuition, etc., check out Princeton Review.

Don't be discouraged or daunted with the numbers you see there.

I hope that answers enough of your questions. >>



Yeah i saw the US news ones...so mm...tier 1 = 54 schools...and I don't even have a chance w/ 'em? *gulp*

-Ed

 

[tigerbait]

<< They might cut you some slack for being a EE CE major. >>



they should... IMO, that 2.9 in EE is more impressive than an applicant who has a 3.5 in a liberal arts major.

 

[BruinEd03]

<<

<< They might cut you some slack for being a EE CE major. >>



they should... IMO, that 2.9 in EE is more impressive than an applicant who has a 3.5 in a liberal arts major. >>



I hope so...I mean I also go to a public school where approximately 40% of those who came into the university engineering program changes majors due to UCLA's "weeding" system

-Ed

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

<<

<< They might cut you some slack for being a EE CE major. >>



they should... IMO, that 2.9 in EE is more impressive than an applicant who has a 3.5 in a liberal arts major. >>



I think this may substantially depend on whether you apply to schools that specialize in Intellectual Property, where a scientific educational background is quite important. I imagine in the main there may be many folks in law school admissions that will not differentiate a GPA based on major. Frankly if I had an engineering degree I would look closely at IP law, which is highly lucrative and seems pretty interesting and relatively low-stress.

 

[ElFenix]

<< they should... IMO, that 2.9 in EE is more impressive than an applicant who has a 3.5 in a liberal arts major. >>

hey! i took hard theory-based math courses in economics so you better take that back. and theres a lot of engineers who couldn't hack a 3.5 in, say, english. people who can't communicate, for example, which i've found a lot of my CS/EE friends to be.

 

[BruinEd03]

<<

<< they should... IMO, that 2.9 in EE is more impressive than an applicant who has a 3.5 in a liberal arts major. >>

hey! i took hard theory-based math courses in economics so you better take that back. and theres a lot of engineers who couldn't hack a 3.5 in, say, english. people who can't communicate, for example, which i've found a lot of my CS/EE friends to be. >>



FYI I respect people who do Liberal Arts ... but there's a few things:

1. They have to take less classes than engineers
2. The amount of hw they have to do is way less than what engineers have to do
3. Theydon't have an active "weeding" out system...where professors deliberately try to flunk 40% of the class. (ok well they may have a few...but then again there's always a few bad apples...for us it's a theme in lower divs)

Oh as for not being able to hack english stuff: I got a 5 on my AP english test (even though I got a B-/C+ in the actual class), and I got a 720 on my SAT II Verbal...oh did I mention I was a Sports Editor in high school? Hm...I kannyt komoonicayte ayte aeall
-Ed

 

[BruinEd03]

morning ^

-Ed

 

[BruinEd03]

evening ^

-Ed

 

[bandXtrb]

^ night

 

[JEDI]

Don_Vito, why wont u get a good job if u dont come from a good school? granted coming from Harvard or Yale law will give u better chances, but i thought almost all lawyers (ie: ANYBODY that passed the BAR) was making good money?

or am i also wrong to think that there are NO medical doctors (that have never been disciplined before) on welfare???

oh, as for law..since u have a engineering degree, try Patent Law. I have a friend that's a patent lawyer. he says it's better pay, less stress than his lawyer firends that went to school with him. also, saying you're a Patent lawyer will get you more respect than just lawyer, where people just assume they are the slime of the earth. i know i did.

does it matter if the school's acredited? is the like getting the MCSE, where the only thing that counts is passing the test (in this case, the BAR)? if so, then just get Trancenders for lawyers

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

<< Don_Vito, why wont u get a good job if u dont come from a good school? granted coming from Harvard or Yale law will give u better chances, but i thought almost all lawyers (ie: ANYBODY that passed the BAR) was making good money? >>



Not true. Plenty of lawyers are rich, and most make a reasonable living, but there are also a whole lot of people who either can't get legal jobs at all, or who make $30-50K a year. Unless you are in the top 20% or so of your class, employment is not that easy to come by, especially in our softening economy.



<< does it matter if the school's acredited? is the like getting the MCSE, where the only thing that counts is passing the test (in this case, the BAR)? if so, then just get Trancenders for lawyers >>



Yes, it matters. Most states do not allow grads of non-accredited law schools to take the bar, and I believe there are no longer any states that allow people to take the bar without getting a law degree at all. California has the most bar candidates from non-accredited schools, which is a large part of the reason that such a small number of CA bar candidates pass the test (less than 50%).

 

[BruinEd03]

Yah...I'm thinking about Intellectual property law (which i think is the same as patent law?). I dunno if that will really have any bearing on my admission though...I mean I really don't think they're more lenient if ur going the IP route. <sigh>

-Ed