Law School Application question (admission index)

[Orsorum]

In the LSAC File Status page, there is a sheet with admission indexes for various law schools, which give the relative weight to the LSAT and GPA and allow you to compute an admissions index (99, 110, etc etc.).

My question is, does anyone know how the admissions indexes work for various schools? Or is the value of an index dependent wholly upon your peers in the admissions process?

Cheers!
Nate

 

[Orsorum]

Bump.

 

[ElFenix]

thats not the page that tells you what your chances of getting into a law school are, is it?

most law schools have some sort of formula that they use to evaluate candidates in an objective manor... usually something like GPA*K + LSAT score = your index, where K is a constant for all the students. that may be what they are refering to, but schools use different formulas

 

[aphex]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
thats not the page that tells you what your chances of getting into a law school are, is it?

most law schools have some sort of formula that they use to evaluate candidates in an objective manor... usually something like GPA*K + LSAT score = your index, where K is a constant for all the students. that may be what they are refering to, but schools use different formulas

Exactly... You can use the formulas to come up with your number, but since no school releases what the index numbers mean they are faily useless... To get a good idea how the classes are panning out i highly reccomend http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com

FYI, the GPA/LSAT data search (to show chances of getting into schools) on LSDAS is highly inaccurate. I can attest that dropping 15-25% off the chances they show you due to the larger applicant pools and outdated info that they use is more of a realistic representation.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: aphex


FYI, the GPA/LSAT data search (to show chances of getting into schools) on LSDAS is highly inaccurate. I would say drop 15-25% off the chances they show you due to the larger applicat pools and outdated info that they use...

i'd imagine it's fairly accurate when there aren't large increases/decreases in the applcant pool from year to year.

my school has had a ~80% increase in applications over the last two years, probably went higher this year too. wouldn't be surprised at all if the applicant pool doubled from the 2001 entering class to the 2004 entering class.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
thats not the page that tells you what your chances of getting into a law school are, is it?

most law schools have some sort of formula that they use to evaluate candidates in an objective manor... usually something like GPA*K + LSAT score = your index, where K is a constant for all the students. that may be what they are refering to, but schools use different formulas

No, they've actually taken that page down, for recalibration for the recent cycle, I think. Your second paragraph is that to which I am referring; in the File Status page, it lists the documents you've sent in for the application process, transcripts, letters of recommendation, etc. In the transcripts section it has a transcript summary with your cumulative GPA and grade distribution and other academic info, and on that page it has a list of schools' admissions indices that lists the weights for LSAT/GPA.

I guess my question is that I can do the simple math and figure out my admission index for a number of schools, but without the cutoff point for each school or some other way to interpret it, it's useless.

 

[Orsorum]

Bump.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Bump.

 

[SweetSweetLeroyBrown]

Just a tip: forget about US News' "Tier" rankings of law schools.

With the exception of the top 10 law schools, all the remaining law schools are all on the same tier...so go to a law school in a city where you plan to practice (make connections with local internships and summer jobs)...unless a lower tier law school gives you a full ride.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: SweetSweetLeroyBrown
Just a tip: forget about US News' "Tier" rankings of law schools.

With the exception of the top 10 law schools, all the remaining law schools are all on the same tier...so go to a law school in a city where you plan to practice (make connections with local internships and summer jobs)...unless a lower tier law school gives you a full ride.

i don't really agree with that... there are clearly distinctions between schools not in the top 10. for example, northwestern and vanderbilt are going to carry more weight than nova southeastern university

 

[SweetSweetLeroyBrown]

ok top 20 then...

But after that, local "recognition" counts more. For example, with similar credentials, a Univ San Diego law grad is on par with a Vanderbilt grad in the San Diego/OC area...even though the two schools are on different tiers...

The USD grad may even be in a better position for quick employment.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: SweetSweetLeroyBrown
ok top 20 then...

But after that, local "recognition" counts more. For example, with similar credentials, a Univ San Diego law grad is on par with a Vanderbilt grad in the San Diego/OC area...even though the two schools are on different tiers...

The USD grad may even be in a better position for quick employment.

My sister just graduated from there, I respectfully disagree.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Bump.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Bump.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: SweetSweetLeroyBrown
Just a tip: forget about US News' "Tier" rankings of law schools.

With the exception of the top 10 law schools, all the remaining law schools are all on the same tier...so go to a law school in a city where you plan to practice (make connections with local internships and summer jobs)...unless a lower tier law school gives you a full ride.

Well, from what I hear, the top 16 is the elite and give you the best mobility. A 35th ranked school and a 60th ranked school might be stuck in the same area, but the guy from the 35th ranked school will definitely earn more on average upon graduation.

 

[shopbruin]

i would say, roughly top 20 are mobile across the country, but its more like top 15.

if you go to say... university of oregon, you probably will be recruited by firms in oregon and wind up staying in oregon.

also not all schools are on the same tier. in san diego there's USD and then there's cal western and thomas jefferson, both fourth tiers. usd is better respected than those two combined, like someone else pointed out. but vandy is a pretty good school in it's own right.

anyways, my bf was using those numbers to just calculate the likeliness he would get into that school. its not to be used as the golden rule. if you're above the index, you'll probably get in. if you're way below, you'll be rejected.

 

[lizardboy]

Originally posted by: SweetSweetLeroyBrown
ok top 20 then...

But after that, local "recognition" counts more. For example, with similar credentials, a Univ San Diego law grad is on par with a Vanderbilt grad in the San Diego/OC area...even though the two schools are on different tiers...

The USD grad may even be in a better position for quick employment.

Thank you, I'm currently attending a school that's ranked ~#15.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: freesia39
i would say, roughly top 20 are mobile across the country, but its more like top 15.

if you go to say... university of oregon, you probably will be recruited by firms in oregon and wind up staying in oregon.

also not all schools are on the same tier. in san diego there's USD and then there's cal western and thomas jefferson, both fourth tiers. usd is better respected than those two combined, like someone else pointed out. but vandy is a pretty good school in it's own right.

anyways, my bf was using those numbers to just calculate the likeliness he would get into that school. its not to be used as the golden rule. if you're above the index, you'll probably get in. if you're way below, you'll be rejected.

that's pretty much what i have heard as well (regarding mobility)... seems like there are the top 5... the really really elite... the top 15 are nationally recognized schools, and below that the differences get smaller.

i would guess that the higher up a school is, the less the numbers will make or break your application, but that's just my guess

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: freesia39
i would say, roughly top 20 are mobile across the country, but its more like top 15.

if you go to say... university of oregon, you probably will be recruited by firms in oregon and wind up staying in oregon.

also not all schools are on the same tier. in san diego there's USD and then there's cal western and thomas jefferson, both fourth tiers. usd is better respected than those two combined, like someone else pointed out. but vandy is a pretty good school in it's own right.

anyways, my bf was using those numbers to just calculate the likeliness he would get into that school. its not to be used as the golden rule. if you're above the index, you'll probably get in. if you're way below, you'll be rejected.

that's pretty much what i have heard as well (regarding mobility)... seems like there are the top 5... the really really elite... the top 15 are nationally recognized schools, and below that the differences get smaller.

i would guess that the higher up a school is, the less the numbers will make or break your application, but that's just my guess

I've heard that as well, although more with the top 20. The rest of the top tier will get you in somewhere; second tier will get you a job regionally, third and fourth maybe in your state.

I've heard of several local schools (Seattle U and Gonzaga) that are apparently very highly regarded regionally, but that are fourth tier when ranked nationally. Not even sure if they're worth the application fee. :Q

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Bump.

 

[xuanman]

many of my fellow classmates at my "top 15" law school have done very well in finding jobs across the entire country. at the same time, in this economy, there are more than a handful of classmates who have no job lined up. this may sound like simple advice, but wherever you go, study hard, do well, and you will hopefully be rewarded.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: xuanman
many of my fellow classmates at my "top 15" law school have done very well in finding jobs across the entire country. at the same time, in this economy, there are more than a handful of classmates who have no job lined up. this may sound like simple advice, but wherever you go, study hard, do well, and you will hopefully be rewarded.

Thank you. That gives me hope.

 

[Orsorum]

Bump.

 

[darren]

the index helps in determining relative weights placed upon your gpa and lsat in determining admission.
by inserting your #'s say a 165 and 3.3, you can find that you have a higher (or lower) composite score than a friend who has a lower lsat 160 and higher gpa 3.7 - does that make any sense or am i missing something.

for those (like myself) who are not at a top 25 school, but are in a top 50 - and not in the top 10% - we may not be hotly recruited in a lukewarm economy and may be attending regional schools in terms of job search, but at least we don't have to be worry about flunking out of law school. last time i checked, uc davis, in the past few years basically did not have any students not graduate because they could not pass a class or meet the academic requirements. any attrition was due to students just deciding law wasnt for them and not because they couldnt handle it academically.
in a tier 3 school you got to watch your ass cause anywhere between 1/3rd and 1/5th of your class is getting flunked out each year. as a friend said, the hardest part for us was just getting in.

that does take MUCH stress out of the law school experience.
or maybe im just a really low expectation laid back kinda guy.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: darren
the index helps in determining relative weights placed upon your gpa and lsat in determining admission.
by inserting your #'s say a 165 and 3.3, you can find that you have a higher (or lower) composite score than a friend who has a lower lsat 160 and higher gpa 3.7 - does that make any sense or am i missing something.

for those (like myself) who are not at a top 25 school, but are in a top 50 - and not in the top 10% - we may not be hotly recruited in a lukewarm economy and may be attending regional schools in terms of job search, but at least we don't have to be worry about flunking out of law school. last time i checked, uc davis, in the past few years basically did notbecause they could not pass a class or meet the academic requirements.
in a tier 3 school you got to watch your ass cause anywhere between 1/3rd and 1/5th of your class is getting flunked out each year.

that does take MUCH stress out of my law school experience.

That does make sense, I'm just curious if there's any way I can find a cut off, or some way to compare that to formulate my own relative chances of admission. For example, with my GPA and LSAT, I have an index of 99, my friend with those other numbers has an index of 97, which is nice, I have a better chance of admission than my friend, but until I know either the total number of students applying/accepted and their relative weights, or find out a cutoff or some other standard from the school, I'm not sure how else to use it.