Laughing at the Liars

[hagbard]

A Conservatives Review of Franken's book

 

[Red Dawn]

Enlightening. What's even more refreshing is a thread by you that is not filled with Anti American Rhetoric.

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Enlightening. What's even more refreshing is a thread by you that is not filled with Anti American Rhetoric.

That's because you misinterpret my meaning and intent for "anti-American"ism.

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Interesting read. Thank you for the link. I used to be a hardcore conservative and just hated liberals like Al Franken and Michael Moore, but I find myself able to stomach them just as well as I can conservatives these days, if not a bit more.

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Interesting read. Thank you for the link. I used to be a hardcore conservative and just hated liberals like Al Franken and Michael Moore, but I find myself able to stomach them just as well as I can conservatives these days, if not a bit more.

Same here. Its been a very enlightening two years. Not to fear, most of these people passing themselves off as "conservative" aren't.

 

[Zebo]

Excellent review..

Cheney wasn?t speaking for himself, because he was just another pig at the Washington trough like all of the rest of them during his years of benefiting from government contracts at Halliburton. But too many voters with fundamentally libertarian instincts fail to consider the source, and instead simply contrast his rhetoric with that of the Democrats who are calling for more taxes and welfare, and fall for the Republicans? lies again and again.

Inevitably, when all of the "limited government" promises have been broken, the naïve, well-meaning conservative blames the other party, political reality, national security emergencies, or similar. But Franken reminds us that Republicans don?t just break promises about their desire for less government: they are lying when they make them. And decent people don?t tell lies, or at least they don?t make a career out of doing so. (Franken implies with all of this that it is otherwise with the Democrats, but we know better, and what they promise isn?t desirable even in the first place.)

here here.. Republicans are the biggest welfare queens of them all when it come to thier wares...

Red maybe you shoudl read this... hags desent is not anti-american,....

Why do they hate us?

They hate us because they are evil.

That?s it, huh? That?s the entire story?

Yes. They?re evil and they hate us because of our freedoms.

I know they?re evil. I was just thinking that maybe if we understood what specifically seemed to trigger the?

Why are you apologizing for the terrorists?

I?m not. They?re evil. You have no quarrel there. It?s just that maybe if we understoo?

Why are you on the terrorists? side?

I?m not! I hate the terrorists. I was just saying that we might be able to prevent the next?

Three thousand Americans are dead. How can you defend al Qaeda?

Believe me, I was not defending them. What they did was horrific and inexcusable. They?re evil. I was just?

Then why are you apologizing for them?

I?m not. I?m trying to say that maybe there are lessons we can?

Why do you hate America?

 

[chess9]

That's more honesty than I've heard in a long time, but is he a Libertarian or a Conservative? I suspect the former because he relishes the stupidity of conservatives too much to be one himself. Anyway, I thought he did a pretty fair review of Franken's book and cemented the now nearly universal view that Anne Coulter and O'Reilly are completely off the deep end.

His most important point, IMHO, is his point that people like Coulter and O'Reilly are the best friends of liberals because they make conservatives look like raving lunatics. Ditto of course for Rush. Where is Bill Buckley when you need him? And George Will? Not strident enough! They've been replaced with a gaggle of mentally challenged screamers who think cutting people off and trashing them live is the way to win rating points. Maybe they're right, but I hope not. The right wing needs to get back to rational discourse, and in a hurry, before they completely undo all the gains they made under Ronald Raygun and Newt The Cute.

-Robert

 

[Zebo]

The United States has been subverted from within, as these counterfeit conservatives hold the reins of power in the Bush administration.

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: Zebo
The United States has been subverted from within, as these counterfeit conservatives hold the reins of power in the Bush administration.

Yep.

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: chess9
That's more honesty than I've heard in a long time, but is he a Libertarian or a Conservative? I suspect the former because he relishes the stupidity of conservatives too much to be one himself.

Well, we libertarians once considered ourselves allied with the conservatives. I even got my "training" from the same place as Coulter, we were just more radical. But these people aren't really the conservatives I knew back then...they're neocons, a very different bred.

 

[chess9]

I have trouble understanding why so many Libertarians vote for conservatives or neo-cons or Republicans. One of my sons is much enamored of the Libertarian Party but he votes Republican, even though he is in favor of an awful lot of stuff that true conservatives would blanch over. Sex, drugs, the role of the government, etc. Frankly, I think the Libertarians think humans are much better than they are-a sort of idealism that really doesn't reflect reality at all. For instance, many Libertarians are in favor of killing the war on drugs. Well, I happen to agree, but I'd replace it with a lot of treatment options under the feds. No Libertarian would be happy with such a solution. Conservatives roundly support the war on drugs and have been quite successful keeping it going. Maybe they ARE Jacobins and not conservatives, but they sure aren't Libertarians. Anyway, this reviewer, I take it, is a Libertarian, no?

-Robert

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: chess9
I have trouble understanding why so many Libertarians vote for conservatives or neo-cons or Republicans.

I don't get that either. Same problem here with Libertarians supporting the Canadian Alliance. Makes no sence, other than that they aren't really libertarian to begin with.

One of my sons is much enamored of the Libertarian Party but he votes Republican, even though he is in favor of an awful lot of stuff that true conservatives would blanch over. Sex, drugs, the role of the government, etc.

I met a lot of conservatives in DC who were also favourable to legalization of drugs, they are a wide variety of views even among those who call themselves conservative. I think most vote Republican (or in our case, CA) because they support libertarian ideas in areas they most favour (usually economic policy). This is changing and lines are being drawn. It feels strange now agreeing with people on the "left". I guess those common areas just didn't come into the foreground until it was forced on us 9/11.

Frankly, I think the Libertarians think humans are much better than they are-a sort of idealism that really doesn't reflect reality at all.

Actually, libertarians such as myself believe in libertarianism for exactly the opposite reason. We don't trust that those individuals that form governments are any better than the rest of us...most likely, even worse. Why give impurfect humans so much power?

For instance, many Libertarians are in favor of killing the war on drugs. Well, I happen to agree, but I'd replace it with a lot of treatment options under the feds. No Libertarian would be happy with such a solution.

No, we wouldn't. What makes you think they have any better solution...they haven't done a good job so far with the WODs, "treatment" or anything else for that matter (the "War on Terrorism" being such an obvious point).

Conservatives roundly support the war on drugs and have been quite successful keeping it going. Maybe they ARE Jacobins and not conservatives, but they sure aren't Libertarians. Anyway, this reviewer, I take it, is a Libertarian, no?

-Robert

I believe JCR is a conservative libertarian. The Jacobins are the neoconservatives.