Latest WikiLeaks: Validation of GWB "Torture" Techniques?

[sandorski]

You could be right, but I'm not willing to risk the lives of Americans to find out.

Oh, yes, can you define torture?

By condoning it, yes, you are risking their Lives.

 

[irishScott]

No.

Yes.

In said hypothetical, you'd rather 10 or more people die than torture one known murderer for intel.

I'd be hypothetically sure to tell the families of those 10+ that their loved ones died so your conscious could be clear.

 

[sandorski]

Yes.

In said hypothetical, you'd rather 10 or more people die than torture one known murderer for intel.

I'd be hypothetically sure to tell the families of those 10+ that their loved ones died so your conscious could be clear.

What part of "never" do you not understand? Make it ok for some hair-brained unlikely to ever happen hypothetical situation today, be done routinely for all sorts of situations tomorrow. It's not worth the risk.

 

[irishScott]

What part of "never" do you not understand? Make it ok for some hair-brained unlikely to ever happen hypothetical situation today, be done routinely for all sorts of situations tomorrow. It's not worth the risk.

And that's why, if it's going to be in any part of state policy, there should (in an ideal world) be extreme legal restrictions and pre-requisites before it becomes a legal option, along with redundant accountability to ensure its enforcement. Like I said, option of last resort. Nothing else nothing more nothing but.

I do not support Bush-style water-boarding.

Your slippery slope argument is rather extreme here. There are exceptions to every rule.

 

[sandorski]

There are exceptions to every rule.

Negative.

 

[WHAMPOM]

You could be right, but I'm not willing to risk the lives of Americans to find out.

Oh, yes, can you define torture?

Define? One of the least productive interrogation technique. As defined by our armed forces' indepth studies.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Define? One of the least productive interrogation technique. As defined by our armed forces' indepth studies.

Bullshit. I watched 24. I saw Jack Bauer. Torture works every single time.


Except against Jack Bauer, of course...

 

[Siddhartha]

never mind

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

Don't have Children. If I did, there's no way of knowing beforehand if they were in any danger in the first place.

Torture is never Justifiable. Never.

Let's say that 24-style, you know there's a nuclear bomb in Manhattan. And you have a guy who knows where it is. Torture him to save millions? I think so.

 

[irishScott]

Negative.

Whatever dude. Have fun in your black-and-white world of absolution. I know from experience things suck with that mentality but hey, who am I to judge?

I'll be sticking to my real world gray area thank you.

 

[irishScott]

Let's say that 24-style, you know there's a nuclear bomb in Manhattan. And you have a guy who knows where it is. Torture him to save millions? I think so.

Nah, sandorski strikes me as the kind of person who would rather starve to death than eat live insects if he was in a survival situation. He'd die while others with more realistic standards lived, but hey, at least he would die with his pride and conscious intact.

 

[glenn1]

You could be right, but I'm not willing to risk the lives of Americans to find out.

I am - the terrorists are only targeting NYC anyway, and who gives a fvck about them? Our moral standards are far more important.

 

[sandorski]

Let's say that 24-style, you know there's a nuclear bomb in Manhattan. And you have a guy who knows where it is. Torture him to save millions? I think so.

24 was Fiction.

 

[Fear No Evil]

What if we stuck the terrorists heads up the vagina of a woman and slowly sucked their brains out. Would that be torture or would it be a choice?

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

Once you start torturing people you become no better than the people you're trying to fight.

The West has the moral high ground because WE DONT TORTURE PEOPLE! We respect human rights. Well, most of us do. Coughguantanamocough.

'The Terrorist' are evil because they employ immoral methods to hurt their enemy.

If you stoop to the same level as the terrorists then you've already lost.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Once you start torturing people you become no better than the people you're trying to fight.

The West has the moral high ground because WE DONT TORTURE PEOPLE! We respect human rights. Well, most of us do. Coughguantanamocough.

'The Terrorist' are evil because they employ immoral methods to hurt their enemy.

If you stoop to the same level as the terrorists then you've already lost.

So shooting a tomahawk missile from 300 miles away or a missile from an unmanned drone at a group of suspected terrorists is moral high ground, but dunking their heads under water is stooping to their level? GOTCHA!

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

So shooting a tomahawk missile from 300 miles away or a missile from an unmanned drone at a group of suspected terrorists is moral high ground, but dunking their heads under water is stooping to their level? GOTCHA!

Wow, you really are retarded aren't you?

 

[dawp]

Let's say that 24-style, you know there's a nuclear bomb in Manhattan. And you have a guy who knows where it is. Torture him to save millions? I think so.

Real life never works out like in the movies/television. Chances are, If someone went through all that trouble to plant the bomb, he isn't going to give it up or will feed you false info to delay you and to stop the torture.

 

[a777pilot]

By condoning it, yes, you are risking their Lives.

How?

you can't even define it.

 

[Craig234]

What if it saves the lives of your children?

What if shooting everyone who comes to your door prevents the person who WOULD come to your door, and then kill your children, from doing so?

Clearly, there is a higher than zero chance it will save your childrens' lives, so it's justifiable.

Note: this is NOT an argument about torture, only your 'Texas logic'.

When it comes to torture, the whole idea of things like opening the door with exceptions causing them to be abused and justifying broader use, I think is likely a waste of time on right-wingers who are not being rational, but merely emotionally equating any limits on torture with 'supporting terrorists'.

Much less the idea of how it can be wrong to do bad things to people who do bad.

A person might use torture to save their children in the incredibly rare situation it could come up - but that's a far cry from opening the door based on that for the government.

It's amazing how many of these government haters are so blindly trusting of the government when it comes to killing and torturing.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Wow, you really are retarded aren't you?

Can't address the point I made can you?

 

[Codewiz]

24 was Fiction.

Do you think that situation could never occur? Answer the simple question. I will steal from a movie I recently watched.

We have a guy that has set 3 nuclear bombs in three major cities. We have him in custody but he will not give up the locations.

The only person that knows the locations is him. You would not use torture to try to get the answers?

I am just asking.....

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Torture is cutting off fingers or gouging out eyes.

Water boarding isn't torture.

Troll post is obvious.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Do you think that situation could never occur? Answer the simple question. I will steal from a movie I recently watched.

We have a guy that has set 3 nuclear bombs in three major cities. We have him in custody but he will not give up the locations.

The only person that knows the locations is him. You would not use torture to try to get the answers?

I am just asking.....

So you are arguing that he is incorrect by "stealing from a movie you watched". LOL

So now we have two fictional shows that are now the basis for our interrogation policies?

EDIT: to show further the crazyness of this:

Jack Bauer behind torture techniques


And here is a Former FBI agent saying that your idea of a "ticking time bomb" is not realistic:

Link

ack Cloonan, who spent 25 years as an FBI special agent and interrogated members of al Qaeda, recently told Foreign Policy that he has “been hard pressed to find a situation where anybody” can say “that they’ve ever encountered the ticking bomb scenario” when interrogating terrorists. He said it is a “red herring” and “n the real world it doesn’t happen.” Cloonan added that the Israelis, “who have been doing this for a long time,” have “never had a situation where it is quote ‘a ticking bomb.’”