Latest NHTSA study confirms SUVs are lethal to occupants and others . . .

[ReiAyanami]

almost without exception, the people involved in lifethreatening car accidents were either
outrageously drunk, or hit by someone who was outrageously drunk.

therefore drunks should be banned from driving SUVs and so should rodney king. he got arrested again this weekend for assaulting a woman. still don't know why he's not in jail after the whole 110MPH+ down the highway in a white SUV slamming into a house....

aren't u glad he spent some of his $3.1 million on a stylish SUV to put everybody else in danger?

I think the more conservative approach would be to limit speeds to 25 mph. Better still enact legislation to create a national car. A Tarus or something with engine or motor capable of max 25 mph and all the same color, white.

that would be the OJ ford bronco plan, all cars white and at 25MPH, much better than the rodney king plan.

 

[bjc112]

Originally posted by: lozina
It's one reason why I plan on buying an SUV by the end of this year- If I'm driving my Civic and get smacked by some moron in a 5,000 lb. SUV, I'd get killed and he'd walk home with bruises. So I'd rather be the moron in a 5,000 lb. SUV then dead

It's the truth...

 

[heartsurgeon]

another approach (with props to ReiAyanami for giving me the idea)..
make people with DUI's (your basic drunks) either give up their driver's license,
or drive only sub-compact cars...

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
another approach (with props to ReiAyanami for giving me the idea)..
make people with DUI's (your basic drunks) either give up their driver's license,
or drive only sub-compact cars...

Just don't buy your daughter one when she goes off to college. everyone. my sister almost died in one while the full sized bronco who hit her honda prelude had no damage to speak of.

PS not saying anyone a drunk...

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

this is the liberal/leftist drivel that defies comprehension. the study EXPLICITY states that
"the four vehicle groups with the lowest fatality rates...were minivans (2.76/billion miles driven), large cars (3.3/bmd), large SUV's (3.79/bmd), and large pickup trucks (4.07/bmd)"

I know you have access to mind-altering drugs . . . maybe that's why your thought processes rarely progress beyond the basics. Fatalities are a function protagonist vehicle characteristics, driver, driving conditions, and antagonist vehicle characteristics (assuming it's a 2+ vehicle crash). If ALL of the above characteristics are constant EXCEPT one variable then you can conclude that the protagonist vehicle (minivan, large car, large SUV, or large pickup is the reason for lower fatalities. In the absence of such stratification, this study is basically poo.

do any of you actually READ any of the studies or reports you quote. it sure doesn't seem like it. it seems you just
regurgitate the opinions of some columnist/author who has to interprete the original study for you..

What's the last thing YOU published. Not only do I read hundreds of research articles a year, I write as well. Unlike you I don't get all my info from a drug dinner or junket. This report is bad science. Unfortunately, many people lack the ability to evaluate the data (results) presented and compare it to the
conclusions.

your gonna kill alot of people with your decisions, if you don't take the time to read the source material and get the facts correct.

Here's a pearl . . . if it was just weight:
1) remove driver/passenger airbags replace with LCDs
2) remove side airbags/curtain airbags and side impact door beams replace with component audio speakers
3) remove antilock brakes, reduce the size of your brake rotors by half and replace the stock 17" alloys with "Dubs"
4) remove the reinforcements in the roof/AB pillars
5) replace the crumple zone with a rigid pillar of greater weight plus a rugged bumper/headlight guard
6) add subwoofer, two crossover amps, PS2, and DVD player to trunk

You now have a significantly heavier vehicle . . . and according to you safer.

Riddle me this, heartsurgeon, do you think people that drive automatics (typically 80-100lbs heavier) tend to have fewer accidents? Do you think they have fewer fatalities? Do you think it's the weight differential that's the problem?

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Design matters more than weight. Vehicles are safer b/c they are designed better and our roads are better (well some of our roads are better). Some design features add weight (ABS, airbags, reinforced pillars/door beams) while others drop weight (use of high-strength alloys).

The Ford Excursion weighs 8500lbs but adding a front beam (designed to match the bumper height of most cars) and a tow hitch dramatically reduces the risk of an Excursion riding over or having a smaller car riding under it from the rear. If Ford had chosen to put a chrome bumper/headlight guard and chrome roof rack on the vehicle, it would be more dangerous to other vehicles without providing a substantive improvement in safety to Excursion occupants.

 

[DealMonkey]

I know this has nothing to do with overall statistics, but from personal experience I had an accident about 4 years ago that's pretty relevant. I was driving my Honda CRX Si in the local SoCal mountains. With snowy icy conditions in place, I came around a sharp corner and hit black ice at about 30mph. My little 2-seater slid across the center divider and straight into an oncoming Dodge Ram 3500 (w/ dual tires in the back).

Sounds like a recipe for disaster, huh? What happened next was interesting: The Dodge Ram 3500 used my little CRX like a ramp. It's left wheels went up over the bumper, up the hood and then finally up the windshield. It flipped upside down and landed on it's cab which promptly crushed like a tin can. I don't even know how the people inside got themselves out, but they did.

The little CRX was totaled, but we walked away pretty much unscathed. The other guys were OK too for the most part. In some ways, I think smaller cars can come out OK - just depends on the nature of the accident. I feel they're more manueverable too. You can jerk the steering wheel to get out of the way quickly and not worry about rolling over.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Well as far as heavyweights, I've got it covered. I putt to work and back in an '88 Olds Cutlass, I just like the comfort of the car.
My wife's car is a Sebring coupe, low, slick, handles good when it's dry, but I find it scary when the road is wet.

Now for covering the Heavyweight - I am seriously evaluating purchasing a Intercity Road Bus, all 35,000 pounds of it.
Here are some typical conversions:
MCI or an EAGLE or a GMC Scenicruiser
Stainless steel coach, 8V71 diesel with Allison 4 speed automatic, Air Suspension, seats out, and custom conversion inside.
200 gallon fuel tank with 12 MPG gives me 2,400 miles before I have to fill up. Go anywhere that a Greyhound bus can go,
but in a better style. Don't need to stop at a motel or a resturant, spend the day and night wherever the fancy strikes me.
From Fort Worth I can be at any point in the CONUS by evening on the 3rd day.
Cancun ? Belize ? Go down to Brownsville and top off, got the range to make the round trip without fretting about it.
Lock it up from the inside, & keep a reliable weapon handy. Only threat would be Mel Gibson and ThunderDome.

Just don't plow into a semi parked on the highway because you fell asleep at the wheel.
And I sure as hell don't have to worry about a H2 or a Ford Exploder taking me down.
It is a pain in the but though to pick those damn compacts out from between the tire treads.
(Be about a year to get it dressed up right)

EDIT TO ADD:
Just read MonkeyDeals post about the driving in snow. Interesting thing about snow and SUV's.
I lived in St. Louis from '96 to 2002, and there were just tons of SUV wrecks there every winter.
The drivers thought that because they were in the Mighty Omnipotent SUV that they were impervious to weather
and couldn't grasp the concept of driving below 75 miles an hour when there was a foot of snow on the road.
After the plows went through, there was 2 feet of snow on the side of the road . . . and the overpasses.
each and every big snow someone 'Ramped' their SUV off the overpass or bridge and onto the highway,
or sometimes the Mighty Mississippi below. Again . . the loose nut that holds the wheel.

 

[LunarRay]

Using an extreme example I wonder if this makes any sense to anyone..

A vehicle weighing 5 tons but, designed to have the driver and passenger sitting on the front bumper encounters a Honda civic stopped directly in front. The 5 ton vehicle was going 50 mph. I suspect the following occurred; The passengers in/on the 5 ton vehicle are toast and the force transferred to the Honda may have done anything from totaled it to crushed in the back end and pushed it forward till friction overcame the issue. In this case the design of the 5 ton vehicle was poor regarding the safety of the passengers. Had they been seated on the rear bumper they may well have survived.
I vote there is a correlation of all the factors in determining the safety of occupants in vehicles. (including the dynamics of the accident itself)

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

I vote there is a correlation of all the factors in determining the safety of occupants in vehicles. (including the dynamics of the accident itself)

True, true . . . but I still insist (according the NHTSA) that adding a DVD, PS2, Xbox, 2 amps/subwoofer, 15 component speakers, and 5 LCDs (including 12" in the trunk) makes my vehicle much safer . . . b/c it's heavier. Don't forget the "dubs" . . .

 

[CaptnKirk]

Well DocBaby,
I suppose that if there was a very creative installation of the sound equipment you listed, a case could be made to support
an 'Acoustic Barrier' that would be impervious to intrusion by mere vehicles of steel and aluminum.
Sound waves focused properly could either toss the intruder aside like litter, or the molecular structure
itself could be disrupted causing said intrusion to disintergrate.

Powerful things these Acoustical Generators - just think of how you feel when a 'Boom Car' pulls up near you playing Rap Music.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Well as far as heavyweights, I've got it covered. I putt to work and back in an '88 Olds Cutlass, I just like the comfort of the car.
My wife's car is a Sebring coupe, low, slick, handles good when it's dry, but I find it scary when the road is wet.

Now for covering the Heavyweight - I am seriously evaluating purchasing a Intercity Road Bus, all 35,000 pounds of it.
Here are some typical conversions:
MCI or an EAGLE or a GMC Scenicruiser
Stainless steel coach, 8V71 diesel with Allison 4 speed automatic, Air Suspension, seats out, and custom conversion inside.
200 gallon fuel tank with 12 MPG gives me 2,400 miles before I have to fill up. Go anywhere that a Greyhound bus can go,
but in a better style. Don't need to stop at a motel or a resturant, spend the day and night wherever the fancy strikes me.
From Fort Worth I can be at any point in the CONUS by evening on the 3rd day.
Cancun ? Belize ? Go down to Brownsville and top off, got the range to make the round trip without fretting about it.
Lock it up from the inside, & keep a reliable weapon handy. Only threat would be Mel Gibson and ThunderDome.

Just don't plow into a semi parked on the highway because you fell asleep at the wheel.
And I sure as hell don't have to worry about a H2 or a Ford Exploder taking me down.
It is a pain in the but though to pick those damn compacts out from between the tire treads.
(Be about a year to get it dressed up right)

EDIT TO ADD:
Just read MonkeyDeals post about the driving in snow. Interesting thing about snow and SUV's.
I lived in St. Louis from '96 to 2002, and there were just tons of SUV wrecks there every winter.
The drivers thought that because they were in the Mighty Omnipotent SUV that they were impervious to weather
and couldn't grasp the concept of driving below 75 miles an hour when there was a foot of snow on the road.
After the plows went through, there was 2 feet of snow on the side of the road . . . and the overpasses.
each and every big snow someone 'Ramped' their SUV off the overpass or bridge and onto the highway,
or sometimes the Mighty Mississippi below. Again . . the loose nut that holds the wheel.

Awesome. The "The Scenicruiser 1955 GMC "The Big Hound"" Looks a little goofy though with two stories...Kinda foreign kinda limey.. Hard to believe they are so resonable...A real cabin cruzer bus like that new is around 250K starting...And the last at least a million miles. Be sure you have a owner who kept good records. Engine alone is 50K.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

I vote there is a correlation of all the factors in determining the safety of occupants in vehicles. (including the dynamics of the accident itself)

True, true . . . but I still insist (according the NHTSA) that adding a DVD, PS2, Xbox, 2 amps/subwoofer, 15 component speakers, and 5 LCDs (including 12" in the trunk) makes my vehicle much safer . . . b/c it's heavier. Don't forget the "dubs" . . .

You don't suppose this is one of those 'economic stimulus' inducements and not to do with safety at all... do you? We like our safety.. and to have all that gamey stuff eliminates the 'are we there yet' stuff to boot..

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Using an extreme example I wonder if this makes any sense to anyone..

A vehicle weighing 5 tons but, designed to have the driver and passenger sitting on the front bumper encounters a Honda civic stopped directly in front. The 5 ton vehicle was going 50 mph. I suspect the following occurred; The passengers in/on the 5 ton vehicle are toast and the force transferred to the Honda may have done anything from totaled it to crushed in the back end and pushed it forward till friction overcame the issue. In this case the design of the 5 ton vehicle was poor regarding the safety of the passengers. Had they been seated on the rear bumper they may well have survived.
I vote there is a correlation of all the factors in determining the safety of occupants in vehicles. (including the dynamics of the accident itself)

No need I've done some math A head on between an 10000lbs. vechile and a 2000lbs vechile both moving at 50 mph assuming equal bumper hieght... It's get worse for the car if the truck has high bumpers.. After impact the 10000lbs vechile is still moving forward at 39.8 while the 2000 lbs vechile is -39.8. This means the truck hit a virtual brick wall at around 10 mph while the car hit it at 90 mph. Which would you rather be in?

Had to use an perfectly inelastic collision because all variables arnt known. Z= sqrt2/3 y^2 Where Z in final speed and Y is initial. But you get the idea.

 

[LunarRay]

Well... the Honda was stopped... and the bumper folks are still toast.. besides if they both are moving at 50 mph they would not meet. I think you're using head on collision data.. my honda was directly in front and stopped... so the transfer of energy would have been first absorbed by the bumper folks then passed on to the honda... who had lcd's and speakers in the trunk... probably..

 

[ReiAyanami]

200 gallon fuel tank with 12 MPG gives me 2,400 miles before I have to fill up. Go anywhere that a Greyhound bus can go,

dam, thats a big fuel tank but then again u'd have to plunk $400 for a tank of gas, and that'd buy a lot of greyhound tickets. by comparison, 200 gallons of gas in the next gen prius would yield 16,000 miles at optimal 80mpg. a difference of 13,600 miles or 650% difference.

a 200 gallon fuel tank is every suicide bomber's wet dream...

fortunately they don't make SUVs like pinto's

of course ford would calculate the value ot your life over the cost of litigation and increasing safety (as in the case of ford exploder+firestone a few years back) and u can bet they still do. so while u consider buying an SUV for safety, at the same time they are considering how much safety they can cut to reduce costs

 

[CaptnKirk]

Diesel is a little cheaper than gas, last trip I made - last month it ran 20 cents a gallon less then the low-grade regular.
Prius may get better fuel economy, but lets see you put 12 people in it and head out cross country.

Diesel fuel is a refined oil that dosen't go BOOM like gasoline.

Teach your SUV to do new tricks, like roll over and play dead.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Diesel is a little cheaper than gas, last trip I made - last month it ran 20 cents a gallon less then the low-grade regular.
Prius may get better fuel economy, but lets see you put 12 people in it and head out cross country.

Diesel fuel is a refined oil that dosen't go BOOM like gasoline.

Teach your SUV to do new tricks, like roll over and play dead.

I've seen diesel for 75 cents a gallon...Just don't tell nobody about it.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Diesel is a little cheaper than gas, last trip I made - last month it ran 20 cents a gallon less then the low-grade regular.
Prius may get better fuel economy, but lets see you put 12 people in it and head out cross country.

Diesel fuel is a refined oil that dosen't go BOOM like gasoline.

Teach your SUV to do new tricks, like roll over and play dead.

I've seen diesel for 75 cents a gallon...Just don't tell nobody about it.

Biodiesel is better for the environment too

CkG

 

[CaptnKirk]

Good call there Cad -

Diesel motors will run on just about any fine molecule thin oil, including vegetable oil products.
Get them tuned correctly and they aren't black smokers, but if they do it's not real bad for them.
(Just the guy in the car behind it.)

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Good call there Cad -

Diesel motors will run on just about any fine molecule thin oil, including vegetable oil products.
Get them tuned correctly and they aren't black smokers, but if they do it's not real bad for them.
(Just the guy in the car behind it.)

Hey, I'm just looking out for the environment

..or maybe the Biodiesel industry which relies on the soybean industry which my company does quite a bit of work for

CkG

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Turbo diesel electric hybrid running on MickeyD's finest . . . that's what I call American . . . likely built by VW (or MB).

 

[heartsurgeon]

What's the last thing YOU published

hmmm....well, let's see, my last three articles were published in:
1) Lancet (anti-phosolipid syndrome and aortic tumors)
2) Journal of the Texas Heart Institute (pulmonary emboli)
3) New England Journal of Medicine (treatment of fungal endocarditis).

but you probably don't read those journals.......

the report states what it states...
i have only quoted verbatim from it. you are free to interpret these results anyway you wish.
however, there is nothing in the report that supports your fanciful conjectures.
Indeed, you don't really know what the study says, because it's obvious you didn't read it either..or don't know how to interpret their data.

They state what they observed..their observations apply to those vehicles they studied, not to some fictious
vehicle that you have concocted.

The problem with liberals is that they "feel" they know the right answer, and the "know" what is right
without actually having any facts to support it.

rather than trying to trash the study because it doesn't fit your view of reality, take it for what it is.
a compilation of facts which show that overall, drivers of large cars, truck, SUV's and mini-vans have less fatalities per mile driven than
smaller vehicles.

 

[DealMonkey]

I think the crux of the problem, as the article points out, is the disparity of weight between vehicles on the road today. Large SUV and truck drivers are putting everyone around them at greater risk of death. I guess the last laugh is on them however, as the article also mentions the increased "safety" in 2-vehicle accidents is offset by higher incidents of deaths in 1-vehicle accidents. I guess the moral of the story is: If you're cruisin' in your Escalade and that Civic up ahead stops suddenly, step on the gas brutha and push on through. If you try to swerve and avoid it, you'll end up flippped on your ass.

 

[SuperTool]

I am thinking about making a rooftop attachment that in case of a t-boning would kill the offending driver.