Last middle class person in U.S. please turn out the lights

[glenn1]

Hey person who fancies themselves middle class, did you ever wonder why both parties seem to be pursuing policies directly contrary to your interests? Like doing nothing to stop illegal immigration, passing social welfare laws that take money from you to "expand coverage" to the poor, and all the other populist bugaboos? Well it's because you're outnumbered by the combination of poors and rich that are working against you from both ends, 44% of the population being "middle class" means you're guaranteed election day losers. Enjoy that declining standard of living and your endless debt slavery because neither Democrats nor Republicans give a sh!t about you as anything but a piggy bank for their pet causes and you ain't one of them.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

maybe ceo's can take a bit of a pay cut instead of making the middleclass and lower lose jobs.

 

[glenn1]

maybe ceo's can take a bit of a pay cut instead of making the middleclass and lower lose jobs.

Right after you take a pay cut so someone in Africa can have clean drinking water. "Collective action problem" response not needed since I know you expect better people to fix problems for you.

 

[Jaskalas]

maybe ceo's can take a bit of a pay cut instead of making the middleclass and lower lose jobs.

CEO pay is the least of our problems.
Corporate profits themselves are used to siphon wealth out of this country and into investments overseas.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

While I agree the middle class is shrinking, I do have a problem with that first graph about people who self describe themselves as middle class. Gen Y kind of screws that up with the expectation that if you don't have 1 million by 30 you are a failure.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Right after you take a pay cut so someone in Africa can have clean drinking water. "Collective action problem" response not needed since I know you expect better people to fix problems for you.

maybe ceo's can take a bit of a pay cut instead of making the middleclass and lower lose jobs.

Truth is probably somewhere in the middle guys. Senior Executives can get back to giving a shit about people who work for them like they did until the mid-late 80s (we'll keep industrial revolution talk out since that was too long ago) and Government can bring back some requirements/incentives to keep US jobs.

 

[cbrunny]

Right after you take a pay cut so someone in Africa can have clean drinking water. "Collective action problem" response not needed since I know you expect better people to fix problems for you.

did you create this thread just so you can crap all over people? or was there an actual purpose?

 

[Jhhnn]

Hey person who fancies themselves middle class, did you ever wonder why both parties seem to be pursuing policies directly contrary to your interests?

Anything stemming from that false equivalency will be bullshit.

 

[theeedude]

It's gonna trickle down any time now, just need to pass Trump-GOP tax cut and give the rich an extra trillion here and there. They will certainly use it to create middle class jobs, and not to buy up assets to rent back to the workers.

 

[desy]

globalization is working against your interests
and as long as transportation is cheap there is no incentive to localize industrys
I've always said the world will equalize as North Americans standard comes down as the rest rise.

 

[fskimospy]

Hey person who fancies themselves middle class, did you ever wonder why both parties seem to be pursuing policies directly contrary to your interests? Like doing nothing to stop illegal immigration, passing social welfare laws that take money from you to "expand coverage" to the poor, and all the other populist bugaboos? Well it's because you're outnumbered by the combination of poors and rich that are working against you from both ends, 44% of the population being "middle class" means you're guaranteed election day losers. Enjoy that declining standard of living and your endless debt slavery because neither Democrats nor Republicans give a sh!t about you as anything but a piggy bank for their pet causes and you ain't one of them.

That doesn't make any sense. You seem to be claiming that one party is representing poor people and one party is representing rich people and that they are for some reason ganging up on the middle. Wouldn't it make far more logical sense for one of the parties to simply represent middle class people? There would be no rational electoral reason to ignore the largest economic group in the country, especially since the poor and rich do not share common economic goals.

Bad analysis.

 

[Commodus]

There is a degree of a pinch at both sides, but to call the left and right just as problematic is equivocation.

There's a tremendous irony to the right and libertarians complaining about the "evils" of welfare while staunchly refusing to raise the minimum wage, subsidize education and create tax plans that actually favor the middle class, rather than making token nods while ultimately supporting the rich. How the hell are you supposed to rise into the middle class when you make so little that you can't save any money, and college is so expensive that it might as well be a pipe dream? Why would you want to escape welfare when the jobs you can get pay so poorly that you have to work two or three of them, forcing you to make major sacrifices in your personal life? A parent who has to work 16 hours a day to feed their child isn't going to be a great parent.

Besides, many in the right act as if illegal immigration is a spigot you can just turn off, and that there won't be any dramatic readjustments necessary. Sorry, but Trump's wall is just a racist's wet dream, and mass deportations would be both extremely expensive and impractical. What happens to Mexico if there are suddenly 11 million 'new' people? How does the country take care of them without destabilizing its economy, or allowing exploitation by drug cartels? And don't argue that it's "not our problem" after that -- you know that spikes in poverty and crime in Mexico would spill over the border. The US could use tougher enforcement of existing laws and of the border itself, but any realistic solution accepts that you can't stop everyone, and that some of the people who crossed illegally will likely be here to stay.

And remember, it's frequently businesses that turn a blind eye to immigration, not government. Many of them actually want illegal immigrants, because that lets them avoid the wages and benefits that they'd have to pay legal residents. You'd have to have plans in place that both soften the blow of using legal workers and prevent these companies from trying to stiff employees in other ways. And unfortunately, I don't see Republicans or libertarians doing anything to protect legal workers against that kind of retribution. If it's not managed properly, a dramatic reduction in the number of illegal immigrants would both shrink the workforce and screw over American workers.

 

[glenn1]

There is a degree of a pinch at both sides, but to call the left and right just as problematic is equivocation.

There's a tremendous irony to the right and libertarians complaining about the "evils" of welfare while staunchly refusing to raise the minimum wage, subsidize education and create tax plans that actually favor the middle class, rather than making token nods while ultimately supporting the rich. How the hell are you supposed to rise into the middle class when you make so little that you can't save any money, and college is so expensive that it might as well be a pipe dream? Why would you want to escape welfare when the jobs you can get pay so poorly that you have to work two or three of them, forcing you to make major sacrifices in your personal life? A parent who has to work 16 hours a day to feed their child isn't going to be a great parent.

Besides, many in the right act as if illegal immigration is a spigot you can just turn off, and that there won't be any dramatic readjustments necessary. Sorry, but Trump's wall is just a racist's wet dream, and mass deportations would be both extremely expensive and impractical. What happens to Mexico if there are suddenly 11 million 'new' people? How does the country take care of them without destabilizing its economy, or allowing exploitation by drug cartels? And don't argue that it's "not our problem" after that -- you know that spikes in poverty and crime in Mexico would spill over the border. The US could use tougher enforcement of existing laws and of the border itself, but any realistic solution accepts that you can't stop everyone, and that some of the people who crossed illegally will likely be here to stay.

And remember, it's frequently businesses that turn a blind eye to immigration, not government. Many of them actually want illegal immigrants, because that lets them avoid the wages and benefits that they'd have to pay legal residents. You'd have to have plans in place that both soften the blow of using legal workers and prevent these companies from trying to stiff employees in other ways. And unfortunately, I don't see Republicans or libertarians doing anything to protect legal workers against that kind of retribution. If it's not managed properly, a dramatic reduction in the number of illegal immigrants would both shrink the workforce and screw over American workers.

To address your points. I disagree with a national minimum wage because it's poor tool for achieving your goal for several reasons. Any one-size-fits-all solution is going to be a poor one when applied at a national level and for all workers. That the min wage should be identical for a wealthy teenager in Nebraska who works as a cashier should get paid as much as an adult head of household in San Francisco working as a lumberjack for the last 10 years is stupid on its face. Min wage should be determined locally, be phased in over time with each worker so it doesn't price the lowest skilled out of the market, and reflect the nature and hazards of the work being done. I disagree with the idea that if a job doesn't pay $15/hour it's not worth being done, for someone just starting their career having an opportunity to just get their foot in the door is more important than the extra $x of wages they won't get if they're never hired in the first place.

Secondly the high expense of college isn't going to be solved by subsidizing it more. Instead you'd have much better results pushing MOOCs and other low cost options and especially increasing the burden of proof for employers to demonstrate why stipulating why a degree is an essential qualification of a position. Currently a degree is used as a simple screening tool because other options (such as IQ or aptitude tests) are prohibited or legally questionable and employers have few other defensible means of screening job applicants.

Last, either enforce our immigration laws and deport those who break them, or repeal them and make us an open borders nation. The current state of affairs is both immoral and unjust to those immigrants living under it.

 

[ivwshane]

Hmm...I wonder if the middle class is shrinking because more people are getting too rich to be considered middle class.


I'm also not sure using self identification really means anything. Its certainly how the Republicans are spinning the current status of the economy- "sure the economy is doing good but the American people aren't feeling it". That's some grade A spin.

 

[Jhhnn]

Hmm...I wonder if the middle class is shrinking because more people are getting too rich to be considered middle class.


I'm also not sure using self identification really means anything. Its certainly how the Republicans are spinning the current status of the economy- "sure the economy is doing good but the American people aren't feeling it". That's some grade A spin.

Whatever truth there is to it is the result of trickle down ideology. It sure as Hell doesn't trickle down to small town America very well.

 

[agent00f]

Hey person who fancies themselves middle class, did you ever wonder why both parties seem to be pursuing policies directly contrary to your interests? Like doing nothing to stop illegal immigration,

I stopped reading at around this point when it became evident the "middle class" is being defined here as the people competing against illegal immigrants for jobs. Woe is me for all the temporarily embarrassed capitalists out there.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I think Glenn is doing some interesting pharmaceuticals if he thinks illegal immigration has anything to do with the shrinking middle class.

 

[nakedfrog]

To address your points. I disagree with a national minimum wage because it's poor tool for achieving your goal for several reasons. Any one-size-fits-all solution is going to be a poor one when applied at a national level and for all workers. That the min wage should be identical for a wealthy teenager in Nebraska who works as a cashier should get paid as much as an adult head of household in San Francisco working as a lumberjack for the last 10 years is stupid on its face.

Does a lumberjack in San Francisco still only earn minimum wage after 10 years of doing it?

 

[brycejones]

Right after you take a pay cut so someone in Africa can have clean drinking water. "Collective action problem" response not needed since I know you expect better people to fix problems for you.

Well so much for you actually wanting to have a meaningful discussion. At least you shit the bed early in the thread.

 

[master_shake_]

maybe the middle class are finally reaping the benefits of the trickle down theory?

or they just think that making around 60-100k a year isn't what it used to be.

 

[DrDoug]

Well so much for you actually wanting to have a meaningful discussion. At least you shit the bed early in the thread.

You actually thought you could have a meaningful conversation with him? Really? Thanks for the first good laugh of the day!

 

[openwheel]

Get the House and Senate elected with Dem majority. Along with Hillary we will see the middle class rise again, and America will truly be great again.

As long as the republicans are still worried about getting re-elected by the deplorables, this country has no chance. Simply ride on the immigrants to produce is not enough.

 

[michal1980]

That doesn't make any sense. You seem to be claiming that one party is representing poor people and one party is representing rich people and that they are for some reason ganging up on the middle. Wouldn't it make far more logical sense for one of the parties to simply represent middle class people? There would be no rational electoral reason to ignore the largest economic group in the country, especially since the poor and rich do not share common economic goals.

Bad analysis.

How do the dems represent the middle class? By supporting illegal immigration to lower wages?

 

[michal1980]

Get the House and Senate elected with Dem majority. Along with Hillary we will see the middle class rise again, and America will truly be great again.

As long as the republicans are still worried about getting re-elected by the deplorables, this country has no chance. Simply ride on the immigrants to produce is not enough.

LMAO. Do you honestly believe this?

PS Hilary claims America is already great.

 

[michal1980]

wasn't Obama going to make this better?