Large Companies Consider Dropping Health Coverage

[DucatiMonster696]

There is a big flaw in your analysis. Government will never let the government employee unions lose their Cadillac plans.

Fixed for improved accuracy.

 

[JSt0rm]

so what is stopping these companies from doing this now?

 

[Throckmorton]

Fixed for improved accuracy.

I'm in a government union... Where's my Cadillac plan???

 

[dmcowen674]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcowen674
Good, then all the smug bastards can eat cake and see what the rest of us feel.

Yep, then the Reps will win supermajorities in both Houses and the White House for the next several decades. Think of it, all the policies you "love" come to fruition and the SCOTUS filled with Republican loyalists for the next two generations.

Be careful what you ask for because you just might get it.

Shit, what do you think I am 12 like the rest of the silver spoon republicans in here?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Shit, what do you think I am 12 like the rest of the silver spoon republicans in here?

You're 12 in IQ only, Dave.

 

[JSt0rm]

so what is stopping these companies from doing this now?

anyone?

 

[ShawnD1]

Which is exactly what the Dems wanted all along.

The dems have a huge majority and they still didn't pass government health care. It seems more likely this problem is accidental and the dems just don't know wtf they are doing.

If this happens you'll see union membership go sky high.

Maybe they'll just close down and move the factory to Canada where companies don't need to deal with this health care bullshit. :awe:

 

[shira]

Maybe you arent, but shareholders are.

The extra $20 million (assuming Caterpillar is even correct) is fully deductible by Caterpillar on both its state and federal returns. The average state corporate tax rate is about 7%, and the federal rate is 35% (for large-incomes). Thus, the total rate is about 40%. So that $20 million ends up being about $12 million, or about 1 quarter of one percent of earnings. Caterpillar is currently paying dividends of $1.68/share. So the net effect of that $12 million loss in income would be 0.4 cents a share.

Somehow, I think the shareholders are yawning.

 

[Double Trouble]

Nope. I'm saying that if it happens that working people who have had insurance find it gone due to changes in regulation, then what I suggested will happen.

Lets face it, outside of the 30% of people who are politically aware and/or active, the rest of the population generally only cares about stuff at election time. When it hits people and their family directly and they lose coverage because of this, if general middle class people start losing health care coverage, there will truly be hell to pay and the next election would result in repeal of the bill.

That said, I'm inclined to believe the idiots in DC will simply increase the penalties to dissuade the corporations from dropping coverage.

 

[JSt0rm]

so what is stopping these companies from doing this now?

anyone?

nobody eh?

fear doom fear indeed

 

[Blackjack200]

The extra $20 million (assuming Caterpillar is even correct) is fully deductible by Caterpillar on both its state and federal returns. The average state corporate tax rate is about 7%, and the federal rate is 35% (for large-incomes). Thus, the total rate is about 40%. So that $20 million ends up being about $12 million, or about 1 quarter of one percent of earnings. Caterpillar is currently paying dividends of $1.68/share. So the net effect of that $12 million loss in income would be 0.4 cents a share.

Somehow, I think the shareholders are yawning.

On the other hand, if Caterpillar pulled the rug on its health benefits, employees jumped ship, and they had to spend a huge amount of money on severance/recruiting to bring in replacement employees that do not have the skill or experience of their original people, I bet the shareholders would be pretty pissed about that.

 

[lupi]

Hahahahahaha

Hahahahahahahaha

he's not that far-fetched. democrat tinkering of the economy saw health care bloom into an employee provided enterprise, if it hadn't perhaps it could have matured without all the additional and expensive administration that adds up as non-value added cost.

 

[ebaycj]

Maybe you arent, but shareholders are.

Shareholders should also be (more) interested in retaining top talent.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

so what is stopping these companies from doing this now?

Quit making sense the righties don't like that. Nevermind that it is now much less advantageous for them to drop coverage and they will now be penalized for doing it.

In the delusional mind of the right wingers companies should be so upset because we've passed marxist healthcare that they should take a steaming dump on their valued employees and pay a penalty to do so, just to protest the communist take over passed by our kenyan traitor in chief.

Republicans aren't even fun anymore, their arguments are getting so tired it's like when your dog tires of playing with a dead rat.

 

[Patranus]

Maybe you arent, but shareholders are.

but but but shareholders are evil.

The evil shareholders are ruining the plan because they want to make a profit.

There is only one solution to this problem....

 

[alkemyst]

Gee more faux outrage for shit that won't happen

Sure large companies want to save a buck but their not fucking stupid. Anyone with half a brain knows the second a company does this effectively dealing a huge paycut to employees, that said employees will bail in massive numbers.

Get back to me when a large company actually tries this. Ain't gonna happen

in this economy, the companies will benefit by the exodus.

You realize this right?

We are being setup for the biggest shell game in history.

 

[Blackjack200]

Maybe you arent, but shareholders are.

but but but shareholders are evil.

The evil shareholders are ruining the plan because they want to make a profit.

There is only one solution to this problem....

Yeah? I haven't seen any shareholder sponsored proxies designed to force the company to get rid of their health care plan in order to save money. I have, on the other hand, seen lots of proxies related to executive compensation and corporate governance (CEOs not being allow to sit on the board etc.)

What have you seen on your proxies?

 

[cubeless]

When I first read your post I thought of drugs (bennies - I grew up in the 60's and 70's). Then I thought of the old Bell telco "green pills". They had 400mg of aspirin, 200mg of caffeine and 1mg of valium. In the old days your supervisor would give them to you if you were feeling sick or having your period. They will probably start it up again if big companies drop healthcare. "Here you go, employee. Here is your healthcare. Now keep working."

wooo hoo... reminds me of the gumball machines in the nurse's office at the gm plant i worked at in the late '70s that had flexeril and those same kind of greenies in them... grab a few and get back on the line!!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

So much for "if you like your insurance you can keep it". No doubt individuals will also pay fines instead of buying insurance since with no pre-existings excluded people will buy insurance when needed.

"The great mystery surrounding the historic health care bill is how the corporations that provide coverage for most Americans -- coverage they know and prize -- will react to the new law's radically different regime of subsidies, penalties, and taxes. Now, we're getting a remarkable inside look at the options AT&T, Deere, and other big companies are weighing to deal with the new legislation.Internal documents recently reviewed by Fortune, originally requested by Congress, show what the bill's critics predicted, and what its champions dreaded: many large companies are examining a course that was heretofore unthinkable, dumping the health care coverage they provide to their workers in exchange for paying penalty fees to the government."


http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/05/news/companies/dropping_benefits.fortune/index.htm?cnn=yes&hpt=C2

Your an idiot.....
There is nothing that is stopping buisnesses from dropping healthcare, yet as long as you have it offered to you then you can keep it!!1


sheese.....what an idiot you are!!
Nobody said buisnesses would be forced to continue to offer health insurance....

 

[GuitarDaddy]

in this economy, the companies will benefit by the exodus.

You realize this right?

We are being setup for the biggest shell game in history.

Yes the sky is falling and all major companies are trying to piss off and run off employees as fast as they can It's so much more fun and less selective than just laying them off Besides this way we can run off the good ones and be left with the lousy ones with low self esteem that we love so much

 

[dmcowen674]

On the other hand, if Caterpillar pulled the rug on its health benefits, employees jumped ship, and they had to spend a huge amount of money on severance/recruiting to bring in replacement employees that do not have the skill or experience of their original people, I bet the shareholders would be pretty pissed about that.

Oh please

Jumped ship? Where would these people go?

Severance? We're not talking about the CEO here.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Oh please

Jumped ship? Where would these people go?

Severance? We're not talking about the CEO here.

Riiiiight, because severance is only reserved for CEOs.

Every company I have ever worked for had severance packages for laid off employees.

 

[Pulsar]

The extra $20 million (assuming Caterpillar is even correct) is fully deductible by Caterpillar on both its state and federal returns. The average state corporate tax rate is about 7%, and the federal rate is 35% (for large-incomes). Thus, the total rate is about 40%. So that $20 million ends up being about $12 million, or about 1 quarter of one percent of earnings. Caterpillar is currently paying dividends of $1.68/share. So the net effect of that $12 million loss in income would be 0.4 cents a share.

Somehow, I think the shareholders are yawning.

It's only a nickel. It's only a dime. It's only a quarter.

Yep. That's sure a bright approach to things. Hey, that even makes sense if you apply it one at a time to each individual tax as it gets passed. Then you realize you're already paying:

Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
Capital Gains Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Court Fines (indirect taxes)
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel permit tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax Interest expense (tax on the money)
Inventory tax IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Local Income Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Taxes (Truckers)
Sales Taxes
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone federal excise tax
Telephone federal universal service fee tax
Telephone federal, state and local surcharge taxes
Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax
Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax
Telephone state and local tax
Telephone usage charge tax
Toll Bridge Taxes
Toll Tunnel Taxes
Traffic Fines (indirect taxation)
Trailer registration tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax

Please come back once you can come up with something better than "it's only a little bit...."

 

[Pulsar]

Riiiiight, because severance is only reserved for CEOs.

Every company I have ever worked for had severance packages for laid off employees.

Now now.... remember, it's questionable whether or not our resident migrant worker has ever held a real job in his entire life..... so you'll forgive him if he's both jealous and bitter about it, and has little real understanding of how it works.

 

[JSt0rm]

so what is stopping these companies from doing this now?

anyone?

nobody eh?

fear doom fear indeed

hahaha facking losers. You all want to argue doom fear doom but you wont answer this simple fsking question.