Large Cabling Project

[76Dragon]

good day to all!.


I am currently working and studying on a possiblity of a large networking project.
I have dealth with basic networking in the past, but not this complexity.

I will be needing to wire a new office building. And I am hoping to get some tips and suggestion to all of you,.

I have two wiring diagram at the moments, not sure which one will work best.
Please pardon my sketch.





I will be needing to run 8 to 12 switch of 48-port each.
The farthest switch could reach around 90meters - 95meters.
I am leaning on a gigabit switch from Linksys.

What specific switch will perform well? Brand? ports?
What is the best cabling method to connect all 8(or more) switch? cat5/cat6? fiber optic?
Can a single DSL line capable to supply all switch for internet connectivity?
any suggestions on the wiring?
What is the best switch that can handle large connected switches? (i.e 15-20 switches)

 

[VulgarDisplay]

What kind of DSL are we talking about here. If you populate every switchport you could maybe get like 56k speeds lol....

 

[VirtualLarry]

I will be needing to run 8 to 12 switch of 48-port each.
The farthest switch could reach around 90meters - 95meters.
I am leaning on a gigabit switch from Linksys.

What specific switch will perform well? Brand? ports?
What is the best cabling method to connect all 8(or more) switch? cat5/cat6? fiber optic?
Can a single DSL line capable to supply all switch for internet connectivity?
any suggestions on the wiring?
What is the best switch that can handle large connected switches? (i.e 15-20 switches)

For a professional deployment, you will need managed switches. If the access port are 1Gig, then you may want 10Gig backhaul links.

A DSL line will NOT supply sufficient connectivity for that many users. I suggest 100MBit business-class cable, 150Mbit business-class FIOS, or a 100Mbit symmetric metro-E fiber link. (Comcast offers metro-E services too.)

Edit: That's as a MINIMUM. Go for 500Mbit metro-E / FIOS if you can.

48 * 24 = 1152 users. At 500Mbit, that's around half a Mbit per user.

 

[yinan]

You will also want to get all the cabling professionally done. There are way too many drops to be done to have this be a DIY project. You would spend a ton of time troubleshooting connections.

Also, you will want a switch that supports VLANs because there is no way that you want all of those devices on the same subnet.

 

[kevnich2]

As others have said, the size of what you're describing is something that you need a professional network/telecom cabling company to install so they can test, certify the runs back to the necessary patch panels. Also, you mentioned 12 switches, 48 ports a piece? Are you really needing that many switches or just patch panels? Structured cabling is run from each jack to a central patch panel, which then connect to switches. I can see a large deployment needing 12 48 port patch panels but usually the in use ratio is 5/1.

You definitely want to more terminated jacks than you think you'll need (I generally run 4 jacks for every 1 station I know I'll have in a work environment) but you don't actually need a switch port for every patch panel interface you have. As others have pointed out, you'll definitely want fully managed switches with atleast one layer 3 capable that can handle routing different subnets.

From the sound of your post, this is definitely something you'll want to get an outside network engineer to take care of for you. Something gets missed or messed up, you'll be the one they're pointing fingers at.

As far as your WAN connection - forget about DSL because there's no way DSL will function for an environment like this. Depending on how important internet is, may want to look at two providers for redundancy. Maybe a cable internet company for backup and a fiber based solution such as FIOS, MetroE or similar with a fiber connection to the building.

 

[ScottMac]

Get a professional to do the cabling.
For the reasons mentioned above, plus it must meet the "code" of the country ,state, city.

I imagine it would really suck to get it all installed, then have an inspector explain that it all has to come out because you used Plenum when you should have used LSZH, or the conduit is not properly installed, or any of the many reasons that an official might be able to take issue with.

Find an installer with BICSI certified engineers ("RCDDs"). They can help you plan it, and see that all is installed properly in-spec and up-to-code.

 

[kevnich2]

Just to give you a general idea though as far as cable infrastructure and wiring layout for something like this: Depending on the distances and the building layout - you'll likely want several 12 count multimode fiber runs from your MDF/central telco area that go out to your IDF locations. The IDF closets are where you'll have your cat6 patch panels and access level switches and where the copper cat5e/6 is run to each individual jack. Your MDF will have a fiber patch panel that then connects to the core layer 3 switch. Each IDF, ideally, will be in it's own VLAN.

 

[drebo]

The first diagram you have is known as "collapsed core" topology. This means that the core and distribution layers are combined. Modern layer 3 switches are fast and robust enough that this is now the preferred topology for all but the very largest networks.

The second diagram is a standard three-tier design. Core, distribution, and access. Unless the physical wiring of your building absolutely requires it, I would recommend against this method.

A couple of suggestions:

1) Double the core. Each access switch should connect to two core switches, for redundancy purposes.
2) Make logical decisions about your broadcast domains. Broadcast traffic (and by extension, VLANs) should never cross your core. If you need multiple access switches to share a VLAN, then you'll need a three-tier design with L3 handled by distribution. The core should be layer 3 traffic only.
3) If this is more than simply a school project, hire a professional to do both the cabling and the configuration of the network. Get and check references. I've seen many smaller networks "engineered" by so-called consultants that have been terrible.
4) If you're laying fiber, OM3 or higher is a MUST. This is not optional. Yes, you might be able to get away with cheaper, but what's the point? The labor is the most expensive portion and that doesn't change based on the fiber you lay.

There's more, but I think any more info would be lost.

 

[SecurityTheatre]

good day to all!.

I am currently working and studying on a possiblity of a large networking project.
I have dealth with basic networking in the past, but not this complexity.

What specific switch will perform well? Brand? ports?
What is the best cabling method to connect all 8(or more) switch? cat5/cat6? fiber optic?
Can a single DSL line capable to supply all switch for internet connectivity?
any suggestions on the wiring?
What is the best switch that can handle large connected switches? (i.e 15-20 switches)

For a corporate environment with over 500 users, DO NOT use home-office gear like Linksys.

You should be using managed switches. Juniper, Cisco, even Brocade or HP.

I don't know who will have to manage this environment, but if it's you, you will thank yourself later. Disabling ports, configuring ports, changing speed/duplex of ports, etc... They are things that need doing.

Additionally, it is completely absurd to have all 1000 ports on the same broadcast domain (or even 500), which means you will need to do Layer 3 routing. Your network will completely suck otherwise. Performance will be awful, broadcast storms will regularly take everyone offline.

I'm concerned that you've come here to ask if a Linksys switch will support 1000 endpoints. Do you know what a VLAN is and how to configure it? How will you handle routing?

Next time there is a switching loop (and with 1000 ports, this happens often enough), how will you troubleshoot it? How do you prevent it? What is the switch's support for spanning tree to avoid this?

 

[RadiclDreamer]

For a professional deployment, you will need managed switches. If the access port are 1Gig, then you may want 10Gig backhaul links.

A DSL line will NOT supply sufficient connectivity for that many users. I suggest 100MBit business-class cable, 150Mbit business-class FIOS, or a 100Mbit symmetric metro-E fiber link. (Comcast offers metro-E services too.)

Edit: That's as a MINIMUM. Go for 500Mbit metro-E / FIOS if you can.

48 * 24 = 1152 users. At 500Mbit, that's around half a Mbit per user.

I disagree, I run 2000 users with 100mb/100mb and typically see 20-50% utilization. His few hundred depending on load could be served by 20-50 easily.

 

[RadiclDreamer]

For a corporate environment with over 500 users, DO NOT use home-office gear like Linksys.

You should be using managed switches. Juniper, Cisco, even Brocade or HP.

I don't know who will have to manage this environment, but if it's you, you will thank yourself later. Disabling ports, configuring ports, changing speed/duplex of ports, etc... They are things that need doing.

Additionally, it is completely absurd to have all 1000 ports on the same broadcast domain (or even 500), which means you will need to do Layer 3 routing. Your network will completely suck otherwise. Performance will be awful, broadcast storms will regularly take everyone offline.

I'm concerned that you've come here to ask if a Linksys switch will support 1000 endpoints. Do you know what a VLAN is and how to configure it? How will you handle routing?

Next time there is a switching loop (and with 1000 ports, this happens often enough), how will you troubleshoot it? How do you prevent it? What is the switch's support for spanning tree to avoid this?

This 100 times.... I also dont see any sort of business grade firewall or router, trust me when i say your typical home router or dsl modem/router combo will not even begin to be able to handle even the NAT table with their limited memory

 

[kevnich2]

I disagree, I run 2000 users with 100mb/100mb and typically see 20-50% utilization. His few hundred depending on load could be served by 20-50 easily.

Well regardless of what he actually needs, the infrastructure to support the minimum speeds he will need will require a fiber solution, which can be scaled up or down pretty much on demand and the only thing that really changes is the monthly cost. He's past the point of being able to use a copper WAN solution where any increase requires running additional copper lines and the construction costs associated with that.

 

[ScottMac]

For a corporate environment with over 500 users, DO NOT use home-office gear like Linksys.

You should be using managed switches. Juniper, Cisco, even Brocade or HP.

I don't know who will have to manage this environment, but if it's you, you will thank yourself later. Disabling ports, configuring ports, changing speed/duplex of ports, etc... They are things that need doing.

Additionally, it is completely absurd to have all 1000 ports on the same broadcast domain (or even 500), which means you will need to do Layer 3 routing. Your network will completely suck otherwise. Performance will be awful, broadcast storms will regularly take everyone offline.

I'm concerned that you've come here to ask if a Linksys switch will support 1000 endpoints. Do you know what a VLAN is and how to configure it? How will you handle routing?

Next time there is a switching loop (and with 1000 ports, this happens often enough), how will you troubleshoot it? How do you prevent it? What is the switch's support for spanning tree to avoid this?

Back before Microsoft acknowledged the existence of TCP/IP, their main campus was flat ... thousands and thousands of nodes yammering away with NETBUI, all bridged/switched (all running to MS Servers .... LOL what a joke). The switches ran Spanning Tree (Thank you Radia Perlman!), so eventually the network was single path, no loops.

Until someone changed anything ... then the time to re-establish a loop-free network (re-convergence) was HOURS ... with all the traffic flying, user traffic was slow & ugly.

Spanning Tree has improved some, but one big, flat network will still suck for everyone; the users and the people that have to support the users.

 

[SecurityTheatre]

Back before Microsoft acknowledged the existence of TCP/IP, their main campus was flat ... thousands and thousands of nodes yammering away with NETBUI, all bridged/switched (all running to MS Servers .... LOL what a joke). The switches ran Spanning Tree (Thank you Radia Perlman!), so eventually the network was single path, no loops.

Until someone changed anything ... then the time to re-establish a loop-free network (re-convergence) was HOURS ... with all the traffic flying, user traffic was slow & ugly.

Spanning Tree has improved some, but one big, flat network will still suck for everyone; the users and the people that have to support the users.

Ewww. NetBUI for teh win....

 

[notposting]

I'm an installer and what you are describing needs professional design from the beginning.

First off, you need a network designer to work through your requirements and get an idea of the network you will need, the devices to run/manage it, heck you need to hire someone on staff who can communicate to this person to begin with (but have your interests at heart, not the hired-gun designer's commission ).

This should also include the building requirements. You are going to need (probably more than one, depending on layout) a TC room with adequate power, cooling, and room.

Past that, you will need professional installation. You will be dealing with firewalls, cable support, along with all the nuances of a proper AND certified installation that meets code.

Afterwards, you will need a support contract or at least a designated party to call for infrastructure support, as well as your own in-house (as mentioned above) IT person for regular networking issues, and depending on how much you want to pay that person, they may end up needing to have some contracted support available.

Ditto on multiple feeds, etc. If you have this many users, how expensive is it when the tubes go down for a day or two? Are they dependent on that? Pretty expensive when it is looked at that way.

Don't forget (and the network designer will bring it up) you will probably want a phone system installed as well.

Good luck.

(also, I thought of this after seeing your post and imagined it at the core of a large deployent.