Laptop with Windows 8.1 : Factory Disk Image

[b4u]

Hi,

I'm thinking about buying a new laptop, a Lenovo YOGA 3 Pro 80HE, which basically will come with a 512SSD and Windows 8.1 64bit.

Since I have a preference for a linux system, my intentions are to completely wipe out the SSD and use it's full capacity on a linux build.

Now since this is a laptop with a pre-installed Windows version, and I'll be paying for with (whether I like it or not), I want to keep it in order to be able to put it back and restore the laptop to it's factory state (if in the future I plan to give it or sell it to someone else).

Previously, some not-so-many-years ago, I would just make a disk image, using Clonezilla, acronis True image, or even Norton Ghost. If needed, I would just write back the image and that was it, back to it's original state.

So my questions are:

1. Nowadays, is it still "safe" to do it? I mean with Windows factory install somewhat binded with the laptop model, bios uefi, all sort of anti-piracy measures, can I still do it without needing some hacking-stuff after restoring such an image?

2. What would be the best way of doing it, in a way that, for instance, if I have to change a failed SSD, I can still be able to put that image back and restore that factory behavior? The traditional boot-from-clonezilla and the image-to-external-drive approach?

3. If I use a "create recovery usb" method on the windows, is the resulting USB expected to recover the system with a completely blank SSD (like boot from usb and restore, without needing any recovery partition)?

4. Any special consideration to take on making an SSD disk image? I mean, an SSD drive has a different structure than that of a traditional HDD, but disk imaging tools like Clonezilla should already be prepared for SSD, so there should be no issues, am I correct?


Thanks.

 

[Dahak]

1) Yes, they are not really "tied" to the machine so much as that image can be used for any Yoga, and probably alot of Lenovo machines, at least from what I see with the HP machines I maintain

2) Yes


3) Yes, it will restore what ever drive is in there back to the factory layout

4) Yes, most imaging software will take into account an SSD


And now there is a 5th option


5) An even easier way now is, because the license key is installed in the bios/uefi you can create a standard windows install media by going here

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-CA/windows-8/create-reset-refresh-media

and run the utility.

This will allow you to either make an ISO or a bootable usb drive. You boot that and it installs and activates fine.

I had personally tried this on a new hp unit I was deploying for a new customer with comes with win8.1 but preloaded with win7.

I made the usb stick, booted, deleted all the partitions on the drive, let it install, and once hooked up the the internet it was activated

The difference between 3 and 5 is that 3 will have all the extra stuff that comes with the lenovo where as 5 is just a straight Win8.1 clean install and will have to possibly get drivers and other software

 

[b4u]

1) Yes, they are not really "tied" to the machine so much as that image can be used for any Yoga, and probably alot of Lenovo machines, at least from what I see with the HP machines I maintain

2) Yes


3) Yes, it will restore what ever drive is in there back to the factory layout

4) Yes, most imaging software will take into account an SSD


And now there is a 5th option


5) An even easier way now is, because the license key is installed in the bios/uefi you can create a standard windows install media by going here

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-CA/windows-8/create-reset-refresh-media

and run the utility.

This will allow you to either make an ISO or a bootable usb drive. You boot that and it installs and activates fine.

I had personally tried this on a new hp unit I was deploying for a new customer with comes with win8.1 but preloaded with win7.

I made the usb stick, booted, deleted all the partitions on the drive, let it install, and once hooked up the the internet it was activated

The difference between 3 and 5 is that 3 will have all the extra stuff that comes with the lenovo where as 5 is just a straight Win8.1 clean install and will have to possibly get drivers and other software

Thank you for your reply.

Didn't know of that 5 option, I've already crossed some info about creating a recovery system from within windows itself, it could have something to do with that, but when looking into a safe method of doing it, I always thought that a third party tool would be better.

So the license (and activation info?) is stored on the uefi bios, meaning that I would be able to theoretically install any windows media on the machine (same OS version, of course) that it would check out the license already there? (and assuming no tool is able to mess up that license)

So I guess I have 3 alternatives on a fresh unboxed laptop to safely have a factory restore point:

a. Insert bootable image maker media (clonezilla, for instance) on first boot, and create disk image to external drive;

b. Boot laptop into windows, configure the laptop with the initial wizard, then run Lenovo recovery software (if installed, similar to what samsung provides) and create a USB recovery disk;

c. After previous point, create a reset-refresh-media through the tool officially provided by microsoft.

Then store all that in a safe storage location, rest assured that I will have 3 different ways of restoring my laptop to factory status.


Thanks

 

[bruceb]

Another option is to simply buy another SSD to install Linux onto. That way you just take out the original and store it away. Drives are not very costly and this is the easiest method.

 

[corkyg]

Another option is to simply buy another SSD to install Linux onto. That way you just take out the original and store it away. Drives are not very costly and this is the easiest method.

This is sort of what I do. I order my Thinkpads with the cheapest HDD available. After delivery, I remove it and replace it with a SSD and install the OS of my choice. Same idea as bruceb but a bit cheaper.

The factory HDD is then stored in a static proof bag in a neoprene bag in a safe place.

 

[b4u]

Changing the disk was a possibility I was thinking of, in case the laptop would come with a regular HDD (as I want an SSD). I would then change it to an SSD, put the OS I want in there, and keep the HDD safe somewhere.

But since the Lenovo model I'm looking at comes already with an SSD, I wasn't thinking about buying a replacement, not messing with a new laptop's internals to replace it. And putting a 512Gb SDD on the side would be a waste :/

So a safe method to image a factory disk would be the best option. And making a duplicate of that image, just in case.

 

[Mem]

Another option is dual boot with 8.1 and Linux,many Linux distros allow you to install it within Windows and have the option to choose the OS of your choice ie Win8.1 or Linux on bootup,I've done that with my laptop.

 

[postmortemIA]

Another option is to simply buy another SSD to install Linux onto. That way you just take out the original and store it away. Drives are not very costly and this is the easiest method.

512GB SSD is costly

On topic, UEFI and factory restore partitions will make your job bit difficult.

 

[b4u]

512GB SSD is costly

On topic, UEFI and factory restore partitions will make your job bit difficult.

What tool would be safer to do the job? Clonezilla? Acronis True Image? Another?

My intention is to be able to undo everything if I want to deliver my laptop to someone that will prefer windows (wife, children, ...)


Edit:

Oh, I've changed about the model, and yesterday I bought Lenovo Yoga 3 14".

Has everything I need, plus a keyboard layout that I prefer and around 550$ cheaper. Now I'm waiting for the arrival, and start gathering the tools to be ready for the job.

 

[sxr7171]

1) Yes, they are not really "tied" to the machine so much as that image can be used for any Yoga, and probably alot of Lenovo machines, at least from what I see with the HP machines I maintain

2) Yes


3) Yes, it will restore what ever drive is in there back to the factory layout

4) Yes, most imaging software will take into account an SSD


And now there is a 5th option


5) An even easier way now is, because the license key is installed in the bios/uefi you can create a standard windows install media by going here

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-CA/windows-8/create-reset-refresh-media

and run the utility.

This will allow you to either make an ISO or a bootable usb drive. You boot that and it installs and activates fine.

I had personally tried this on a new hp unit I was deploying for a new customer with comes with win8.1 but preloaded with win7.

I made the usb stick, booted, deleted all the partitions on the drive, let it install, and once hooked up the the internet it was activated

The difference between 3 and 5 is that 3 will have all the extra stuff that comes with the lenovo where as 5 is just a straight Win8.1 clean install and will have to possibly get drivers and other software

Wow MS has gotten with the times.

 

[sxr7171]

Another option is dual boot with 8.1 and Linux,many Linux distros allow you to install it within Windows and have the option to choose the OS of your choice ie Win8.1 or Linux on bootup,I've done that with my laptop.

With 512GB I see no reason not to dual boot.

 

[b4u]

Wow MS has gotten with the times.

Exactly what I thought

With 512GB I see no reason not to dual boot.

Also thought of that.

Meanwhile I bought a model with 256SSD, and so I believe that when arrives I'll find that about 30Gb is for windows, plus 10Gb for recovery partition (and a system reserved one for NTFS).

If I dual boot, I'll have 200Gb the most for linux. I plan to maintain 2 VMs in there, to 60Gb max for them.

Well ... still 140Gb is a good number ... at the moment I live with a 80Gb sized drive ...

Being an SSD, and in a dual boot setup, it will cause more stress on 60% of the SSD (since the windows and recovery partitions will barely be used). Would it be of a concern, for the lifetime of the disk?


Thanks

 

[b4u]

Hi again,

I got my hands on my laptop, and first thing I did was a complete full disk image to an external storage, using "acronis true image 2015" and "clonezilla". I'll keep both images, and copy them to a second place just in case.

When creating the image, acronis presented me with the following info (256GB SSD):

Operations

Number of operations: 7

1. Creating partition image
   Hard disk:    3
   Drive letter: -
   Type:         0x27 (Windows RE Hidden, PQ, MirOS)
   File system:  NTFS
   Volume label: WINRE_DRV
   Size:         0.977 GB

2. Creating partition image
   Hard disk:    3
   Drive letter: -
   File system:  FAT32
   Volume label: SYSTEM_DRV
   Size:         260 MB

3. Creating partition image
   Hard disk:    3
   Drive letter: -
   Type:         0x7 (NTFS, HPFS)
   File system:  FAT32
   Volume label: LRS_ESP
   Size:         0.977 GB

4. Creating partition image
   Hard disk:    3
   Drive letter: E:
   File system:  NTFS
   Volume label: Windows8_OS
   Size:         197.6 GB

5. Creating partition image
   Hard disk:    3
   Drive letter: F:
   File system:  NTFS
   Volume label: LENOVO
   Size:         25 GB

6. Creating partition image
   Hard disk:    3
   Drive letter: -
   Type:         0x27 (Windows RE Hidden, PQ, MirOS)
   File system:  NTFS
   Volume label: PBR_DRV
   Size:         13.57 GB

7. Saving partition structure
   Hard disk:    3

Wow, what a load of partitions. Anyway, all of them were saved into a single 25GB ".tib" file (most probably because it's a complete system, unused space was compressed to almost nothing).

Now Lenovo has a special button that, when pressed, powers the laptop into a special menu, where I can enter bios, choose boot device, boot from the disk (normal boot) or recover the system (using data from a recovery partition).

They also state on the manual that they have a special partition for recovery purposes (as most laptops have nowadays), and also a partition mapped as drive D with lenovo drivers (alternatively I can download the updated versions from lenovo support site).

So by looking at acronis info, am I safe to assume that:

- Partition 2 (SYSTEM_DRV) contain the drivers (and should be available on windows as drive D
- Partition 5 (LENOVO) should be the lenovo recovery image
- Partition 4 (Windows8_OS) is the windows operating system installation

Or am I not correct?

But what are the others?

- Partition 1 (WINRE_DRV) and 3 (LRS_ESP) both have 1GB for what purposes?
- Partition 6 (PBR_DRV) has 13GB for any kind of recovery?

Still I was thinking that type 0x27 would define the recovery partition, but I have 2 of them (WINRE_DRV and PBR_DRV), none of them is the one I thought it should be the lenovo recovery partition (LENOVO).

What partitions can be deleted safelly, without sacrifying the lenovo recovery feature? Or should I be better off by reducing Windows8_OS partition to say 30GB, and use the 170GB remaining for my linux (what a waste of space, from total 256GB down to 170GB )?


If I drop a new disk, say a 512GB SDD (double capacity), will lenovo recovery find the recovery partition if it is at the same 5th position? Meaning that restoring the acronis image (with all the partitions) would retain all the lenovo behavior (and windows installation)?

I'm trying my best effort to be future proof that I can put the system back at factory settings if I want to give it to another person who prefers windows (a family member, for instance).


Thanks.

 

[Elixer]

For the partition info, look at http://support.lenovo.com/en/documents/ht077144.

If you clone all the HD onto the SSD, yeah, it will work.
Then, you can expand your windows partition to however big you want.
Leave the other partitions alone, those are all for lenovo use, don't expand them.

 

[b4u]

For the partition info, look at http://support.lenovo.com/en/documents/ht077144.

If you clone all the HD onto the SSD, yeah, it will work.
Then, you can expand your windows partition to however big you want.
Leave the other partitions alone, those are all for lenovo use, don't expand them.

Thank you for the link, very useful information in there.

I'm still testing a way to safely clone the disk ... seems that Acronis True Image 2015 is not able to do a proper disk cloning ... or I'm missing something.

I've tested a restore into a virtual machine, and immediately after restore, the VM does not find a bootable disk. I was expecting for it to fail because of other reasons (wrong security check when starting windows or something), but not finding a bootable disk on a full cloned disk?

I booted with partedmagic to check for partition information, and from what I see, the partitions are not created in the same order.

On the lenovo laptop (original ssd), I find the following info:

partition   filesystem   size          used          label                          flags
---------   ----------   -----------   -----------   ----------------------------   -----------------
/dev/sda1   ntfs         1000.00 GiB    294.52 MiB   WINRE_DRV                      hidden, diag
/dev/sda2   fat32         260.00 MiB     32.55 MiB   SYSTEM_DRV                     boot, hidden, esp
/dev/sda3   fat32        1000.00 GiB    546.34 MiB   LRS_ESP                        hidden
/dev/sda4   unknown       128.00 MiB            --   Microsoft reserved partition   msftres
/dev/sda5   ntfs          197.57 GiB     28.15 GiB   Windows8_OS                    msftdata
/dev/sda6   ntfs           25.00 GiB      1.96 GiB   LENOVO                         msftdata
/dev/sda7   ntfs           13.57 GiB     10.90 GiB   PBR_DRV                        hidden, diag

Now on the VM, acronis restored the "Microsoft reserved partition" up to first position on the disk.

So now I'm thinking that probably acronis may not be the best solution (same result with full-clone or full-clone-sector-by-sector). I was not able to test clonezilla disk image on a VM, but I'm going/have to to be on the safe side.

Also I'm thinking that maybe ddrescue would be a safer approach to make an exact clone, even though it will dump the full 256Gb contents to a file.

Any help/tips/advice appreciated.

Thanks

 

[bruceb]

Lenovo / Thinkpad have some quirks with Acronis ... see this link:
https://forum.acronis.com/forum/4196

On Lenovo and some others, you must do what they call a "reverse clone" where you put the Target Drive in the machine it is to be used in and the drive you are cloning from in an enclosure or external USB Drive adapter .. then run the clone from External to the Internal and it should work ... something to do with how many Sectors the Lenovo uses as compared to most other computers. You might also try another program called Easus .. said to work good.

http://www.easeus.com/disk-copy/

Info below is from the acronis forum:

Many Thinkpads (like mine) use a nonstandard disk drive geometry (240 heads vs. 255 heads). Almost all USB interfaces will "see" the drive as having 255-head geometry. To work in your laptop it must be "seen" as 240-head. As you have discovered, the way to accomplish this is to have the target drive installed internally. Some Compaq laptops are similar, so the general advice for best chances of a successful clone or restore is to always have the target drive installed in its final location. Some call this a "reverse clone" where the source drive is removed from the laptop and installed in a USB enclosure and the new target drive is installed in the laptop. The same advice applies to image restores - restore to the internal drive in its final location.

 

[b4u]

Lenovo / Thinkpad have some quirks with Acronis ... see this link:
https://forum.acronis.com/forum/4196

On Lenovo and some others, you must do what they call a "reverse clone" where you put the Target Drive in the machine it is to be used in and the drive you are cloning from in an enclosure or external USB Drive adapter .. then run the clone from External to the Internal and it should work ... something to do with how many Sectors the Lenovo uses as compared to most other computers. You might also try another program called Easus .. said to work good.

http://www.easeus.com/disk-copy/

Info below is from the acronis forum:

Many Thinkpads (like mine) use a nonstandard disk drive geometry (240 heads vs. 255 heads). Almost all USB interfaces will "see" the drive as having 255-head geometry. To work in your laptop it must be "seen" as 240-head. As you have discovered, the way to accomplish this is to have the target drive installed internally. Some Compaq laptops are similar, so the general advice for best chances of a successful clone or restore is to always have the target drive installed in its final location. Some call this a "reverse clone" where the source drive is removed from the laptop and installed in a USB enclosure and the new target drive is installed in the laptop. The same advice applies to image restores - restore to the internal drive in its final location.

Uhm ... thanks ... interesting info. So that could mean my disk images (full-disk and full-disk-sector-by-sector) are ok (the *.tib files), but to restore successfully, I need to send data to a system that "implements" the same drive geometry? In this case it's the same laptop, so no problem right? (Even if I put another SSD not bought from lenovo)

If this is the problem, all tools will show the same issue? Like clonezilla, ddrescue, and even easeus? I mean if it's a situation provided by hardware ...

And it could not be a clone to external drive, it must be a disk image to an external drive instead, or else the USB from the external disk should also be read with the same disk geometry, correct? So first: original disk to external *.tib, second: external *.tib to disk (on the same computer, the same or a new disk).

Am I thinking correctly?

 

[bruceb]

That is how I interpreted what was said on the Acronis forums. Perhaps others with the same make laptop can offer their views.

 

[b4u]

That is how I interpreted what was said on the Acronis forums. Perhaps others with the same make laptop can offer their views.

At this time it seems information is a bit scarce ... this Windows 8.1, GPT and the way the brands are now shipping everything on the disk ...

I'm gathering some more info to get a good solution. Some info found here about the "problems" of Acronis and GPT (problem or rumor? dunno):
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2428594

Anyway, I'm starting to think that I must use several disk image software in order to try and check for a safe solution.

Also I'll have to ask for specific support on Lenovo forums, don't know if they have much activity though.

For reference:

• User that want's exactly what I'm looking for, except a different model and OS (with no image software reference): https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T...e-windows-8-disk-before-touching/td-p/1419457

• Some nice support tips on making "reverse cloning": https://forum.acronis.com/forum/62258

Using the windows install media (thanks for info Dahak), it can be the last-man-resort to restore a factory windows 8.1, even though I would have to download all drivers from lenovo (no prob there), still it seems so good to be true ...