Laptop for college freshman (or something else)?

[PowerEngineer]

My son will be attending the University of Washington next September, and I'm wondering what kind of computer will make the most sense. I'm thinking that a large desktop like the ones I prefer will take up too much space in the dorm room, and that being able to take a laptop around to classes, library, ets. sounds convenient to me. What is your experience?

If a laptop is the way to go, what features are most important? Screen size and battery life? It seems like most colleges are pretty thoroughly wired these days; is wireless capability important? Do you bother with docking stations?

If a desktop is better, is it worthwhile to go small form factor?

I've been reading through the posts here for a while, but haven't been able to pull it all together. Thanks for the help (and sorry if this is a report).

:beer:

 

[Jassi]

In order to make the best decision, first, you should ask him what he needs/ wants. If its a surprise, then as fellow students, some of us can help you guess

Second, find out what he needs. He might want to play Doom 3 at 70 FPS on high settings but that should be secondary. He will need wireless, a laptop without wireless is basically neutered. What is his major? Is he going engineering or any of the hard sciences? An EE major's requirements are different from an Visual Arts (graphic design) major. Will he be living in the dorms? How well do you think he will be able to take care of it? (Universities are hot beds of theft and laptops make good targets). How much weight do you think he can handle?

And finally, the most important of them all, what is your budget?

// With that info, you can make a much better choice

 

[DarkAmeba]

I just finished my freshman year of college and I had a similar dilemma to your son's. In the end, I decided to take a desktop and I'm very happy I did. I play games so i need the power a desktop offers. Plus you can get a lot more power for your dollar with the desktop. As long as you have a nice LCD the desktop should fit, even on the tiny dorm desks. About halfway thru the year I purchased an Apple powerbook to go along with my desktop using my own funds. I did this thinking I would take the laptop to classes and such as you described above. I found that this dosen't happen. My laptop only leaves the room when i take it home for the weekend. The odds are very high that your son will be the same way as I've heard the story over and over from friends. Most college students feel they need a laptop, but the laptop then becomes a desktop because it just sits on their desk 24/7. If you or you son prefers a desktop, I would go for it. I don't regret buying my laptop because its nice being able to run a dual monitor type setup, but I don't use it for the things I thought I would. If you do get a desktop, SFF is not really necessary, you can just throw the tower on the floor.

This is my experience with the dilemma, hope that helps you decide

 

[DivideByZer0]

Depends on what your son's special preferences are. If he's the type who's really into computers and whatnot, then I'd give him a budget (assuming it's your money) and leave it up to him to decide what he wants. If not, then you'll have to consider a few things. If he's into gaming, a desktop is probably definitely the way to go especially if you're on a budget, but that would probably mean that he'd be able to make a selection himself anyways. If he's not going to be using too many gaming/high end programs, a cheap laptop would probably work out well. If you're not a gaming/power user, you really don't need to worry about high-end machines, just ones with adequate RAM/processor speed/screen/etc to run DVDs and office applications well (this really doesn't require too much cost-wise.) Wireless with a laptop is a must. The portability I think is a good idea, but with a cheaper laptop you don't have to worry too much about whether the portability is used or not and whether you're wasting your money, and the option for portability is always there. Unless your son has a real need for a high-end system, you shouldn't have to spend very much at all to get something that works perfectly well for him. Also, for battery life, just make sure that it's decent. If you're getting a cheaper machine thats newer, chances are you'll get decent battery life because of the less features. Just do some research on that and try to find a good balance. Post what your son wants and what your budget is and we can help you make a good decision on a specific laptop.

 

[PowerEngineer]

Thanks for the responses do far.

I should have said that his major looks to be something in the biology/environmental sciences or engineering. He doesn't know much about computers. He enjoys playing on-line games like counterstrike and now guild wars, but gaming performance is not a high priority. He will be living in the dorms.

Thank!

 

[IThinkImAEngineer]

I used a desktop for the first two years of college, then a laptop for the last two years. It worked out well. Since your son will be living on campus in the dorms for the first and (maybe) second years, he won't need to run too far to get on to his PC to do work. Once he moves off campus the laptop (and a light weight, sub 5lbs one) becomes essential. And first year will be filled with multiplayer games with his roommates so performance will be wanted.

 

[kami333]

I used both throughout college, had a desktop that I played games on and upgraded from time to time, and a laptop that I carried around to libraries and meetings (but not to classes). It's nice being able to write a paper in the library reference room and have everything there as opposed to having to go back and forth between the library and your dorm room or a computer lab. Also I was a bio major (ecology concentration) so being able to make rough estimates in the field whether or not I needed more data saved me travelling time a couple of times.

 

[Octave]

Im still looking for price point.....for 2000 US you can get one hell of a laptop that would fit everything he could possibly need, seeing as how he knows very little about computers. And personally, i think docking stations are a waste of time for college, you only really need one for work, when you need a high end computer to do your job and need a few extra features now and then that wouldnt fit into your laptop. However, everything is basically taken care of with a nice laptop. Depending on how much gaming he does, and how much portability he needs, there are a lot of nice laptops out there like the 9300 or the 6000D from dell, there are others, but im not going to list them right now. One possible thing that i would recomend if you go laptop way, is to get an external screen to go along with it as well as a mouse/keybaord too maybe...just to leave in his room for when he does gaming...it really helps. Im going to be a senior in college, and i have both power desktop and portable laptop...but i think a high end laptop is the best of both worlds...but like i said....money has a lot to do with it.

 

[Jassi]

Having the budget would help.

I would seriously consider getting one of the Compaq & HP 14" widescreen laptops (V2000 and DV1000 respectively). They are nice, compact and beautiful. They will surely be able to handle CS and possibly even Guild Wars on medium-low settings. For gaming with eye candy, you can't go wrong with a desktop, especially in a University/ Dorm environment.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Here is my personal recommendation.

Get a budget desktop PC. Something along the lines of Athlon64 Socket 939 3000+, 1GB RAM, budget gaming video card like 6600GT or plain 6600 depending on total budget, and a 17" LCD monitor. Small case, mini-tower: CompUSA has the SuperLanBoy on sale for $39 or $49 after rebates frequently.
Get a budget laptop. You don't need much to take around for basic PC usage in between classes. He won't need a power house with him no matter what his degree program. If he is in engineering, they will have labs loaded with thousands of dollars of software that he needs. If he is in some kind of design school (one of the only other majors that NEED computers), they will have computers loaded with thousands of dollars of software. You just need a sub-$1000 laptop that has wireless, is relatively small, and ideally uses the Pentium M processor.

A few models that come to mind are any of the Averatec 12.1", HP dv1000, Dell 700M..........and that's all off the top of my head. Keep in mind gaming is a zero possibility on these machines. Yes, the Intel Extreme Craptacular graphics can probably handle regular old CS, but there is NO point to do so. All of these machines can be had for around or below $1000.

I was in Sam's Club the other day and they had some surprisingly decent deals on laptops, including several Averatec models. I highly recommend you check out Averatec's. Also, look into academic discounts. Some brands have them, some don't. I know HP does.

Write back with a budget and we'll get you squared away!

 

[Jassi]

The new Averatec 4000 series is good bang for the buck. PM chip, 100Gb HD, 13.3" brightview screen and a really nice (apple like) finish. All for $999 AR.

 

[JBird7986]

As a rising sophomore at Duke (Yes, one of the lucky people who got a free iPod) I'll put in my two cents here, as I just faced this dilemma a year ago. For me, the ability to take my computer with me was extremely important, but then again so was gaming. I actually purchased a laptop which allowed me to do a bit of both, so I can take my notes in class on it and play HL2 on it too. I purchased an (NOBODY FREAK OUT ON ME HERE!!!!) eMachines M6811 laptop. Now they don't make them anymore, but Gateway has a very similar one that they sell that has been slightly upgraded (A64-M 3700+, 1GB DDR) from the one which I purchased.

The stats on mine are:
AMD Mobile Athlon 64 3400+ @ 2.2GHz
768MB PC2700 DDR RAM (Upgraded from 512MB)
80GB HDD
64MB Mobility Radeon 9600
15.4" Widescreen (1280x800)
DVD+/-RW

Granted, these specs aren't what they were a year ago, but even so, not bad for a $1450 laptop. I know I should get some grief for buying an eMachines, but I have not yet had a reliability problem, and the thing works REALLY well. Additionally, this is merely a slightly downgraded machine from what Voodoo PC sold for roughly $4000 (No 128MB 9700, Lower res screen and only 512MB instead of 1GB RAM).

 

[jammur21]

Buy a $500 or less laptop off ebay . That should get you at least a 14.1 inch screen, DVD, and a fast Pentium3 OR a decent 12 inch iBook. Better yet, jump on one of the $500 laptop deals as of late. Laptops are the stolen left and right out of dorms. Also between partying in his dorm room (spilled drinks) and lugging it around campus in his backpack with books, it WILL get beaten up. I'm an Apple fan. I had a G3 Pismo POwerbook that was no weakling. It got very beat up just from carrying it from one corner of UCLA to the opposite corner for 2 years with books (hinges, screen, parts falling off, cracked panels, etc.) Yes I know I could have / should have carried two bags, but that got very old, very quickly. If something happens to a $500 laptop, it would have been MUCH worse if it was $1500+.

Wireless PC (laptop) cards are as cheap as $20 (excluding the free after rebate junk). At this price, its a no brainer.

If you get a desktop. Be sure to get an LCD monitor and also get a TV Tuner adaptor over VGA. Space is at a premium in most dorm rooms - no point in wasting it with a bulky TV and bulky CRT.

 

[piasabird]

I liked what some have said about college. Most universities require first year students to reside on compus in a dorm and may not even allow the student to have a car depending on the location. My son used a Desktop because he likes to use the computer to do a lot of different things. He really liked the ATI All-in-wonder video card.

Many young adults like to play games and watch TV. Having a TV Card or an ATI All-In-Wonder Card can eliminate the need for a TV and a Computer. Having a nice 15 inch or 17 inch LCD monitor can help to save on space. Some LCD Monitors come with a TV interface that work as a TV and as a monitor. Of course you want your child to study too. Depends on your child's habits likes and dislikes.

Students often have direct access to the school network and chat back and forth instead of using the phone. Having a stationary computer might work better for most dorm dwellers. Having the ability to play a DVD might be nice too. Having a CDRW is probably a necessity to make copies of work to carry it around. If you have to turn work in a CD is a nice way to package it. A Floppy is just too untrustworthy. Another idea is a nice Flash Drive you can wear around your neck or stick in your pocket.

It might be nice to have a nice Centrino cheap protable to take notes on. However, there is always the problem of battery life, theft, damage, and what not. If your prize possession leaves a laptop somewhere or forgets it or leaves the door unlocked a laptop is very easy to steal. My Son's Room mate stold and vandalized his PC at school, but luckily we were able to catch the culprit.

 

[Albis]

most people don't need laptops for college. most engineering software is on the school computers only and somewhat hard to get outside of paying big bucks to buy it. even trying to illegally download it is hard sometimes.

i say go with a decent desktop that he will be happy with for a couple years. as he gets closer to graduation or takes graduate classes where people actually use laptops more, he can consider it than

 

[PowerEngineer]

I want to thank everyone for taking the time to express their views. I can see that personal preference may be a deciding factor here, as posters have been happy with thier decisions from just a good desktop through cheap desktop/laptop to good laptop. I guess there may not be a clear cut "right" choice.

I hadn't mentioned "budget" as I haven't settled on a hard and fast number and didn't want to unwittingly eliminate good options. That said, it'd be nice to hold cost to $1500 or less.

I am worried about laptop theft, particularly in the dorm. I like the idea of a TV tuner card in the desktop to save space. The cheap laptop and desktop has me thinking...

Thanks again for the feedback! :beer:

 

[fbrdphreak]

In regards to laptop theft, check w/your insurance company; they may cover his dorm room stuff automatically. I know my Dad's insurance policy covered up to like $3000 of stuff in the dorm, not too bad

 

[Jassi]

There is a good insurance site (Something like National Student Insurance). I will find the link for you tomorrow if it hasnt been posted by then already. Sorry but I can barely keep my eyes open

 

[mdahc]

In general, you get a hell of a lot more power and scalability for your money with a desktop. I lived in a dorm for the 1st 2 yrs. of my undergraduate study, and there was plenty of room for my desktop (with a CRT) and my roommate's desktop. Also, consider this. No notebook right now (and I mean no notebook) will be able to be upgraded to run the next major revision of Windows (Longhorn), nor can any current notebook truly run Windows XP Pro x64, the most recent version of Windows. Not even (decent, non-integrated graphics) Athlon64/Turion64 notebooks can truly run XP x64 b/c no notebook manufacturer has provided 64-bit 3D drivers, and in some cases, chipset drivers.

Anyway, if you get a budget socket 939, PCIe nForce4-based desktop now, you're current (meaning you can run regular 32-bit Windows and 64-bit Windows). You'll also have a cheaper upgrade path to Windows Longhorn since you'll be able to upgrade to a dual core socket 939 Athlon64 CPU once they become affordable and since you'll have a PCIe graphics card interface, which will be standard for many years to come. Thus, you should just be able to get a new CPU and graphics card in another year or two instead of having to buy a new motherboard, RAM, probably power supply and case if AMD motherboards switch form factors, on top of buying a new CPU and graphics card (I'm assuming this is a 4 yr. college).

 

[mainomega]

Well i also thought about this problem. The solution ? I first bought a HP ZD7000, sold it, and then bought a ZD8000.
3.6 Ghz, 2gigs of ram, 256 MB pci express radeon, 100gb HD, 8x DVD-R, 17" brightview screen, and the Media center option allowed me to record 2 shows while i watched a third. Saved a TON of space and I can play every game with all the goodies. Expensive but worth it.

 

[Wuzup101]

If he's doing some sort of engineering/science than what he'll actually use the laptop for in class will be limited. I do use my powerbook to take notes in some of my bio classes (secifically genetics, cell bio 1 and 2 this year). In addition to that it has come in VERY handy while working in various labs. It's much easier to look up a chemical structure at chemfinder.com than to page through the aldrich catalogue and then expand the condensed structure.

From what I've seen and experienced, most (but not all) students that actually use their laptops daily (as in they don't just leave them in their dorm on their desk) tend to be more productive. It's nice to have all your programs/files with you when you're doing research at the library, cramming late night at the student union, etc... Don't worry so much about power unless he's hardcore into gaming; however, I recomend buying a machine with all components being 1 or 2 levels down from the current best. This usually gives you the best compromise between price and power/longevity. He will have access to a computer lab with tons of software for his core engineering classes. That being said, I can count only a few times that I've had to go to the lab to use their workstations. He will use his laptop/desktop much more than anything at any of the labs - so you want to buy something that he's comfortable with.

In the PC realm my top choice would be an IBM T42 or T43. They are pricy but very very solid systems. Perfect for a college student. I also have to recomend safeware insurance (www.safeware.com). They cover all accidental dammage and theft with zero deductable. The yearly fee is very reasonable (I pay around $100 for complete care on an almost $3000 machine). Other things I defiinitely recomend are: a flash/jump drive for quick file transfers, and a nice NON-computer specific backpack with a quality sleeve case for his notebook. I say non computer specific because they are less likely to be stolen on the run. Also, for some reason, computer specific backpacks seem to be far less comfortable, heavier, etc... Also, for times when he's not carrying the computer, the packpack itself is far more functional. Check out daypacks liike the borealis (sp?) by The North Face. TNF bags run in the neighborhood of $70-80ish in most places and are of exceptional quality. I've been using mine for 3 years now and beat the heck out of it. Still looks like new. Also, I believe the zippers have lifetime warranties and such... I own a few North Face items and all of them are of exceptional quality.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: mdahc
Also, consider this. No notebook right now (and I mean no notebook) will be able to be upgraded to run the next major revision of Windows (Longhorn), nor can any current notebook truly run Windows XP Pro x64, the most recent version of Windows. Not even (decent, non-integrated graphics) Athlon64/Turion64 notebooks can truly run XP x64 b/c no notebook manufacturer has provided 64-bit 3D drivers, and in some cases, chipset drivers.

And where are you getting your information from? Why do you think no notebook will run Longhorn? I think the sentence you are actually looking for is that ANY notebook will be able to run longhorn. Even those with integrated GPU's. Longhorn will have several display modes for the new visual goodies, ranging from graphics like regular ol' XP to all the eye candy you could want. Notebooks will be able to run Longhorn.
The Windows XP 64 part is also confused. First of all, you are right that no notebook manufacturer provides 64-bit 3D drivers. But there are modded video drivers all over the place, and 64-bit ones will make their way out when it is appropriate. Right now ANY 64-bit drivers are hit or miss, give it time. Besides, almost no one will buy a notebook for 64-bit compatibility. Those who do, know that they are in for a rough patch with driver support. At the same time, there have been people successfully running the Betas of XP 64 on the eMachines/Gateway A64's for a long time

 

[mdahc]

Okay, so you'd be willing to buy a 64-bit notebook without any guarantee that its manufacture will provide 3D drivers? Hell, the much used Gateway/Emachines Mobile A64 notebooks have been out for how long now? Has Arima, Gateway, Emachines, or ATI produced drivers? NOOOOOOO! Look at the upcoming Ferrari 4000. It's going to ship with XP 32-bit home edition, and as far as I know there are no 64-bit drivers for the Radeon Xpress 200M chipset or the X700. ATI sure as hell isn't going to produce them, so do you think Acer/Arima will? Hardware and software companies are more interested in selling you more sh*t down the road than they are with compatibility. And as far as modded drivers are concerned, if you f*ck something up and your GPU isn't programmed properly, then you're SOL.

As far as Longhorn is concerned, you might be able to run it on some current notebook architecture, but it will be like running XP on Windows 98 architecture. Who doesn't want to be able to run all the extras? Furthermore, the fact that you can't really upgrade notebook GPU's despite the whole PCIe/MXM/Axiom buzz (w/o voiding your warranty) will limit you more than anything since Aero Glass's performance is supposed to scale with hardware. Lastly, who here likes to run their OS according to MS's recommendations? The recommended amount of RAM for XP 32-bit is 256MB. Anyone here running 256MB on XP and loving it?

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: mdahc
Okay, so you'd be willing to buy a 64-bit notebook without any guarantee that its manufacture will provide 3D drivers? Yes. Most people don't buy notebooks for 64-bit operating systems & 3D performance. Those who do have different priorities, which is fine. Hell, the much used Gateway/Emachines Mobile A64 notebooks have been out for how long now? Has Arima, Gateway, Emachines, or ATI produced drivers? NOOOOOOO! Look at the upcoming Ferrari 4000. It's going to ship with XP 32-bit home edition, and as far as I know there are no 64-bit drivers for the Radeon Xpress 200M chipset or the X700. ATI sure as hell isn't going to produce them, so do you think Acer/Arima will? Hardware and software companies are more interested in selling you more sh*t down the road than they are with compatibility. And as far as modded drivers are concerned, if you f*ck something up and your GPU isn't programmed properly, then you're SOL. First of all, calm down a little. There's no need for language. Second, as I said previously, MOST PEOPLE don't care about a 64-bit operating system. Right now there is limited 64-bit driver support for desktop systems even. That doesn't mean if you buy a 64-bit capable laptop that you won't be able to use it in WinXP 64. Right now you can barely run a desktop in WinXP 64, does that mean you shouldn't buy a 64-bit compatible desktop for that reason? Oh, and as far as modded drivers are concerned: no. You really don't know what you are talking about regarding GPU's, I'm sorry to say. Drivers have ZERO to do with "GPU programming" and the extent of being "SOL" is limited to having to reinstall Windows.

As far as Longhorn is concerned, you might be able to run it on some current notebook architecture, but it will be like running XP on Windows 98 architecture. Who doesn't want to be able to run all the extras? Furthermore, the fact that you can't really upgrade notebook GPU's despite the whole PCIe/MXM/Axiom buzz (w/o voiding your warranty) will limit you more than anything since Aero Glass's performance is supposed to scale with hardware. Lastly, who here likes to run their OS according to MS's recommendations? The recommended amount of RAM for XP 32-bit is 256MB. Anyone here running 256MB on XP and loving it? Nobody is disagreeing with you here. Everyone knows laptops have a much shorter lifespan than desktops, for the sole reason of upgradeability. Your analogy is fairly accurate: Longhorn will work, but it might be somewhat limited. From what I have read of the specifications, Longhorn will be functionally complete and performance more than satisfactory, but you won't have the pretty eye candy the new hardware accelerated interface is supposed to provide. Longhorn is in all reality not a reason to wait to buy a laptop. Say one waits until Longhorn is standard on laptops, woohoo! Oh wait, now there's another post-Longhorn OS on the horizon. Are you going to wait for that come out too? With computers you have to live with the very likely situation that when you buy something, something better will be available at the same or lower price within a short period of time. Deal with it.

 

[mdahc]

So drivers have ZERO to do with GPU programming? Then why did my brother's desktop Geforce 4 MX die on him when I recently installed 71.89 WHQL's and then I suddenly got a message from the card's BIOS upon reboot saying that it wasn't programmed properly? Have you ever programmed in OpenGL or DirectX? Writing drivers has EVERYTHING to do with programming their respectable hardware counterparts. Have you ever heard of API's? What does that stand for...oh yeah, Application PROGRAMMING Interface. It's a common interface for hardware manufacturers to program for a certain platform.

With Longhorn a little more than a year from release, and this guy, who I'm assuming wants his son's machine to last as long as possible while supporting as much software as possible, about to purchase a machine, it would be rather foolish not to buy based on what you know is coming. Planning for technology requirements five or six years from now is also foolish because no one can gauge what hardware and software will do that far in advance, but a little more than a year, come on.