LAPD guns down street performer, then plants a fake weapon?

[Sunburn74]

I don't see a thread on this topic so I'll start one. The story is developing over time, but in this current atmosphere of law enforcement being overly willing to use their weapons, I'm surprised the officers involved didn't think twice.

http://globalgrind.com/2014/12/08/man-shot-killed-by-lapd-scream-villain-street-performer-details/

http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2014/12/lapd-kill-street-performer/

http://laist.com/2014/12/09/police_say_man_they_fatally_shot_at.php

Essentially, roughly 3 days ago a 911 call for placed for by an anonymous person who stated they had been cut by a knife wielding man. Police responded to that section of town (Hollywood and Highland) and encountered a 22 year old white male. Unbeknownst to the officers, that 22 year old male regularly performed on that corner dressed as the villain from the Scream movies and would wield a plastic knife. He would take photos with tourists and make a living from this endeavour. Apparently he had been doing this for years.

The details are still emerging but apparently police arrived, the young man did not respond to their instructions (as per the officers), made a threatening move (as per officers) and so he was shot several times in the head. This apparently was caught on intersection cameras.

Whats interesting is that
1) the images at the crime seen caught by passerby's at the time of the shooting (refer to the second link) did not show any weapon. However, subsequently a weapon (a small pocket knife) appears at the crime scene next to the dying man with a police label on it. This weapon's image is subsequently tweeted out by the LAPD as people start to protest. However, witnesses say the man was unarmed entirely as supported by the initial images.

2) that 911 caller has yet to be identified and there are no hospital reports of someone presenting for injury from a knife attack

I personally am getting a little tired of the "threatening move" claim as a justification to shoot.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/06/cleveland-police-department-shot-black-man

I doubt in germany or the UK, a man holding an actual knife (which are the commonest instrument of assault in those countries) would have been killed in a similar confrontation.

Maybe its time to raise the bar on justification to shoot?

 

[dmcowen674]

LAPD guns down street performer, then plants a fake weapon?

Motion number 2,768 to change P&N to "Police Out of Control"

 

[Fern]

1. I thought police weren't supposed to aim for the head etc. That they had to aim at 'body mass'? If they can aim for the head, the can aim for the arm/shoulder etc.

2. Your title says "fake weapon". Looks to me like the police may have planted a real pocket knife. Hey, if you're going to start planting weapons use a real one.

Yeah, I'm tired of the "threatening move" claim. Sounds kind of vague, no?

Edit: Require to post that the dead guy is white.

Fern

 

[BoberFett]

1. I thought police weren't supposed to aim for the head etc. That they had to aim at 'body mass'? If they can aim for the head, the can aim for the arm/shoulder etc.

2. Your title says "fake weapon". Looks to me like the police may have planted a real pocket knife. Hey, if you're going to start planting weapons use a real one.

Yeah, I'm tired of the "threatening move" claim. Sounds kind of vague, no?

Edit: Require to post that the dead guy is white.

Fern

If he was wearing a costume with mask, they may have shot him just in case it turned out he was black.

 

[Zaap]

Where's the proof the police actually planted a knife? Or that he didn't make "a threatening move" with a knife?

From those reports it's unclear about any of those details, and all the Scream costume stuff just seems to cloud the issue. (that is: whether or not he normally dressed up in a scream outfit and slashed at people with a fake knife doesn't mean jack shit as to the issue of him in this case carrying the pocket knife found and making some 'threatening move' towards cops with it, or stabbing someone else who called 911 in the first place.)

 

[Fern]

IIRC, cops are saying the dead guy wasn't wearing a "Scream" outfit.

Fern

 

[MomentsofSanity]

IIRC, cops are saying the dead guy wasn't wearing a "Scream" outfit.

Fern

That's what I've read as well. Seems more horrible reporting trying to twist the story to something it was not. From what I've read he is a guy who does perform, however, when this incident happened he was not wearing any costume.

 

[Blanky]

I doubt they planted anything. More likely just stiff in the pants over the opportunity to righteously kill somebody who doesn't need to die. As you said, this kind of terrible police work doesn't happen in the UK. The cops don't have guns generally so don't use them just because somebody has a knife.

Cameras will hopefully shed light on this.

Worse bullshit cop murder I have seen recently was the homeless guy shot on a mountain by three heroes and it was captured on helmet cam.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
Worse bullshit cop murder I have seen recently was the homeless guy shot on a mountain by three heroes and it was captured on helmet cam.

Now that you mention I recall that. That was terrible.

Fern

 

[Sunburn74]

Where's the proof the police actually planted a knife? Or that he didn't make "a threatening move" with a knife?

From those reports it's unclear about any of those details, and all the Scream costume stuff just seems to cloud the issue. (that is: whether or not he normally dressed up in a scream outfit and slashed at people with a fake knife doesn't mean jack shit as to the issue of him in this case carrying the pocket knife found and making some 'threatening move' towards cops with it, or stabbing someone else who called 911 in the first place.)

The pics are pretty clear. The pics with the guy immediately being shot shot show no weapon on the ground. Then pics later show a pocket knife mysteriously appear 4 feet from it with a police tag. Take a look at the second link and scroll to the bottom. Judge for yourself.

 

[werepossum]

If he was wearing a costume with mask, they may have shot him just in case it turned out he was black.

lol +1

 

[Zaap]

The pics are pretty clear.

Not really. At least not the pics posted.


Whatever the cop appears to put on the ground at 4:44 in the video seems could only be the #4 item closest to the star (On closer look, it seems to be the guys wallet.) Not item #1.

But here's the capper for me, and I know it because I'm local. Been to that very spot in Hollywood countless times.

The picture of the knife laying on the ground IS NOT the area of sidewalk where someone bends down and seems to lay something down. How can I tell? Well actually anyone can tell, but certainly a local would know. The sidewalks in that part of Hollywood on the walk of fame are not made of the common concrete material under the knife- they're some shiny black speckled material. This:

The knife could only be laying on the concrete surface between the sidewalk and the street- item #1 which seems to be where it's just not visible in the video/photos.

 

[Zaap]

One reason I think you can't see the knife is there's a dip in the sidewalk right there, and the top photo is at an angle that doesn't see down the slope of that dip to where the knife would be. (Presumably that's water, and it too is obscured.)

There's no way in hell you could see a knife in that depression from the distance and angle of the portrait-mode-fail video.

The wallet isn't there probably because some cop picked it up in order to go through it and ID the person, then returns it to the sidewalk as seen in the video. Unless there's reason to think cops wouldn't do this for most cases (examine a wallet to ID a suspect) then I'd guess that's no real scandal. Impossible to tell what the other items are even when labeled.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

1. I thought police weren't supposed to aim for the head etc. That they had to aim at 'body mass'? If they can aim for the head, the can aim for the arm/shoulder etc.

Fern

Cops (and for that matter, most people with handguns) aren't known for accuracy. Just because they aim for the chest, doesn't mean they hit what they are aiming at.

Also, if they fired multiple shots, recoil will usually push your next shots higher anyway.

 

[DigDog]

meh.

this kind of stuff always happens in Latin America. i don't see why you are shocked.

 

[HumblePie]

One reason I think you can't see the knife is there's a dip in the sidewalk right there, and the top photo is at an angle that doesn't see down the slope of that dip to where the knife would be. (Presumably that's water, and it too is obscured.)

There's no way in hell you could see a knife in that depression from the distance and angle of the portrait-mode-fail video.

The wallet isn't there probably because some cop picked it up in order to go through it and ID the person, then returns it to the sidewalk as seen in the video. Unless there's reason to think cops wouldn't do this for most cases (examine a wallet to ID a suspect) then I'd guess that's no real scandal. Impossible to tell what the other items are even when labeled.

Are you a blind fool? It's a BIG BLACK folding knife that is laying on the ground in the second image with a white police tag next to it. That big black knife is not there in the first image and that is CLEARLY seen.

Now as to the authenticity of the images, I don't know. But based on those two images alone, it is clear there is an extra black lump in plain sight that is not in the exact same spot in the first image.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

That's what I've read as well. Seems more horrible reporting trying to twist the story to something it was not. From what I've read he is a guy who does perform, however, when this incident happened he was not wearing any costume.

Like all other such cases this needs to be thoroughly examined and whatever wrong done punished just as if it were an ordinary citizen who killed another.

I'll also say that this didn't make much in the news or here because white people being killed by police do not matter nearly as much as minorities, and that upsets me. Statistics do not matter to the victim or those who may have cared for him, but the press and other reprehensible "leaders" have naught to gain.

 

[z1ggy]

Why would somebody anonymously call 9-11 saying they'd been cut? That's usually something where I'd want it known it was me in case I had any medical bills that I needed to sue the assailant over later down the road.

Furthermore, the fact nobody went to the hospital with a cut from a knife, makes that whole thing seem fishy.

Even if the police planted a knife on him, did they have time to cut themselves and get blood on it? Any competent dective/crime scene analyst will have that blade tested for human DNA. If it came back clean... Well... I think it would be reasonable to say that exact knife was not used to cut somebody. I'd also wager that he had nothing to do with the alleged cutting of whomever called 9-11 either.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

One reason I think you can't see the knife is there's a dip in the sidewalk right there, and the top photo is at an angle that doesn't see down the slope of that dip to where the knife would be. (Presumably that's water, and it too is obscured.)

There's no way in hell you could see a knife in that depression from the distance and angle of the portrait-mode-fail video.

The wallet isn't there probably because some cop picked it up in order to go through it and ID the person, then returns it to the sidewalk as seen in the video. Unless there's reason to think cops wouldn't do this for most cases (examine a wallet to ID a suspect) then I'd guess that's no real scandal. Impossible to tell what the other items are even when labeled.

It's also very possible that the knife was under the person and after the body was processed and the body removed they placed it on the sidewalk to ensure it wasn't damaged.

 

[HumblePie]

It's also very possible that the knife was under the person and after the body was processed and the body removed they placed it on the sidewalk to ensure it wasn't damaged.

It's a swiss army victronix knife with a 2 inch blade. WTF is he going to threaten with that??? I think I'd be scared more of a rusty butter knife or a set of nail clippers than that thing.

 

[Zaap]

Are you a blind fool? It's a BIG BLACK folding knife that is laying on the ground in the second image with a white police tag next to it. That big black knife is not there in the first image and that is CLEARLY seen.

Now as to the authenticity of the images, I don't know. But based on those two images alone, it is clear there is an extra black lump in plain sight that is not in the exact same spot in the first image.

I already pointed out, the "black lump" is a wallet, not the knife. Notice it's up on the black, shiny speckled part of the sidewalk, and it's #4, not #1. There's a separate image of item #1, the knife, and it's not up on the sidewalk.

#1 is down on the concrete gutter between the sidewalk and street. You can't even see the knife with the marker sitting right next to it in the 2nd picture- I'm guessing you didn't even notice the marker.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

It's a swiss army victronix knife with a 2 inch blade. WTF is he going to threaten with that??? I think I'd be scared more of a rusty butter knife or a set of nail clippers than that thing.

A 2" blade shoved into someones chest that's not expecting it can puncture the heart due to the compression of the chest. A slash to the throat can also slice through the carotid artery. Either of these can result in death.

 

[Jerem]

Also, if they fired multiple shots, recoil will usually push your next shots higher anyway.

People including police overwhelmingly shoot low due to recoil anticipation. If the shots are high than they are firing before acquiring the correct sight picture. I shoot on a range with sheriff's deputies and even in rapid fire shooting that high is rare outside of the occasional goof.

 

[Blanky]

Before and after pics of the supposed knife plant are why lay people need to stay out of conversations sometimes.

First, obviously the wallet or knife in second pic are not in the first. The angles are almost the same. The item isn't in the first, period, end of discussion.

However, note how the dead body in the first pic has mysteriously reanimated ? Wow what does that tell us? It tells us that either the dead guy is a zombie or somebody was moving things around significantly (not just a casual planting of a knife). Do we even know the pics are in order? This reminds me of the guys on reddit who solved who the boston bomber was, except they didn't. Are we to believe cops moved the body significantly and them planted a knife and wallet?

Cops and kill with near impunity anyway; "I thought he was drawing a weapon" = license to kill. They barely need to plant anything.

 

[Zaap]

Before and after pics of the supposed knife plant are why lay people need to stay out of conversations sometimes.

First, obviously the wallet or knife in second pic are not in the first. The angles are almost the same. The item isn't in the first, period, end of discussion.

People need to actually look at what's presented and use their brains a little- both things are difficult to ask of most people.

The black lump (wallet, cellphone, whatever the hell it is, but it's not the knife) is clearly seen being placed back on the ground by a cop in the portrait-mode-fail video someone posted. Obviously the markers weren't placed yet.

So there's a perfectly clear timeline of why item #4 wouldn't be in the first picture, but present after someone put down the markers. Obviously the markers are after the body was moved.