Lane Splitting

[xBiffx]

Which law school did you graduate from?

Predictable response. I already said it sucks, but don't attack me because of it.

 

[olds]

Predictable response. I already said it sucks, but don't attack me because of it.

I am not attacking you. I am curious what law school you graduated from.

 

[Squeetard]

LOL, guys it was a joke, sheesh. Loosen the bone Wilma.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Sorry guys but without proving intent no one is getting charged with anything more than that misdemeanor. It may suck, but that's reality. All the guy has to do is play dumb and claim he didn't see the biker. Gonna be hard to prove otherwise. Perhaps that's something to consider. That and the fact that if someone did decide to do that, charging them with a more serious is hardly going to resurrect you.

Like I said before, you guys are way more trusting than me.

Better hope you kill me because if I can get up you'll be eating nothing but liquids through a straw for a few months at best.

 

[Squeetard]

I forgot to add I would back over you after to make sure you don't get up.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I forgot to add I would back over you after to make sure you don't get up.

Don't worry, my homies will avenge me.

 

[xBiffx]

I am not attacking you. I am curious what law school you graduated from.

You've chosen to go after the messenger rather than the message.

Since when do I have to have a law degree to interpret a law?

 

[xBiffx]

Better hope you kill me because if I can get up you'll be eating nothing but liquids through a straw for a few months at best.

For one, I'm never going to attempt this. Another poster brought it up.

For two, I wholeheartedly agree with that response.

 

[xBiffx]

LOL, guys it was a joke, sheesh. Loosen the bone Wilma.

I know it was, I don't really think anyone here is that vindictive. But it still brings up a good point. Relying on the law as protection is absolutely retarded. Way too trusting.....

 

[repoman0]

Wow, OK then.

California. Why am I not surprised.

How is this a bad thing? Here in MA, drivers are required by law to check that it's safe to open their doors too. A good friend of mine just got hit by a car door while she was riding in the bike lane by some guy who didn't think he had to check. Because of the law, he gets ticketed and has to pay her medical bills and for a new bike, via insurance or otherwise. It doesn't matter that he didn't see her.

 

[xBiffx]

How is this a bad thing? Here in MA, drivers are required by law to check that it's safe to open their doors too. A good friend of mine just got hit by a car door while she was riding in the bike lane by some guy who didn't think he had to check. Because of the law, he gets ticketed and has to pay her medical bills and for a new bike, via insurance or otherwise. It doesn't matter that he didn't see her.

Didn't say it was a bad thing.

But exactly how is it preventing someone from opening up their door in a rider? Your friend still got messed up didn't he? Would the outcome be any different without the law?

 

[JulesMaximus]

I know it was, I don't really think anyone here is that vindictive. But it still brings up a good point. Relying on the law as protection is absolutely retarded. Way too trusting.....

People don't generally open their car doors when driving on the freeway.

 

[smackababy]

People don't generally open their car doors when driving on the freeway.

I would assume he is talking about lane splitting while traffic is stopped.

I still think lane splitting is moronic and dangerous, even if it is legal. Drivers already don't pay attention as it is, there is no need to be closer to them.

 

[xBiffx]

People don't generally open their car doors when driving on the freeway.

Of course not, while they are driving.

When traffic is at a standstill, I've seen it numerous times. I would think this is the situation where lane splitting is mostly used too.

I would assume he is talking about lane splitting while traffic is stopped.

I still think lane splitting is moronic and dangerous, even if it is legal. Drivers already don't pay attention as it is, there is no need to be closer to them.

Exactly.

 

[jdoggg12]

Didn't see this thread before revisiting the one I participated in previously. Good to see this is getting some attention.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I would assume he is talking about lane splitting while traffic is stopped.

I still think lane splitting is moronic and dangerous, even if it is legal. Drivers already don't pay attention as it is, there is no need to be closer to them.

That's almost never the case in traffic here. It is usually moving along slowly, stop and go. Nobody should open their door in those situations. Nor should you open a door when stopped for a traffic light.

I've split in some pretty gnarly traffic situations though during a power outage or when a freeway is shut down due to jackknifed big rig where traffic is just gridlocked. Most people were willing to make space for motorcyclists in those situations and I still didn't see anyone opening their door.

 

[jdoggg12]

I lane split daily in the SF bay area as part of my commute. I've never run into a dangerous situation that didn't involve one of 2 things:

1: Driver wasn't checking his/her mirrors and didn't see me approaching before initiating a lane change (this only happens when they don't use their blinkers, otherwise I fall into a lane until the car has moved to the desired lane)
2: Driver was willfully blocking/attacking me because they don't like that I'm on a bike and lane splitting.

As to the driver opening a door on a biker... I dunno about other riders but when I split I check mirrors on nearly every car I pass. It's extremely obvious who's paying attention to you. Doing a read on the driver takes .1 seconds based on their facial expression and vehicle movement as you approach... I've made eye contact with the drivers that get all "I'll show him" and act on it... Every. Single. Time. So no, it would not be a difficult to prove malicious intent on a door opening event on the highway.

Regardless of how you feel about it, as long as it's legal and the rider is operating with due caution for the situation, STFU about how you feel about the rider's 'stupid' decision to lane split. As I said in my other post, unless you've put serious leg time over a bike, you have NO idea WTF you are talking about.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I lane split daily in the SF bay area as part of my commute. I've never run into a dangerous situation that didn't involve one of 2 things:

1: Driver wasn't checking his/her mirrors and didn't see me approaching before initiating a lane change (this only happens when they don't use their blinkers, otherwise I fall into a lane until the car has moved to the desired lane)
2: Driver was willfully blocking/attacking me because they don't like that I'm on a bike and lane splitting.

As to the driver opening a door on a biker... I dunno about other riders but when I split I check mirrors on nearly every car I pass. It's extremely obvious who's paying attention to you. Doing a read on the driver takes .1 seconds based on their facial expression and vehicle movement as you approach... I've made eye contact with the drivers that get all "I'll show him" and act on it... Every. Single. Time. So no, it would not be a difficult to prove malicious intent on a door opening event on the highway.

Regardless of how you feel about it, as long as it's legal and the rider is operating with due caution for the situation, STFU about how you feel about the rider's 'stupid' decision to lane split. As I said in my other post, unless you've put serious leg time over a bike, you have NO idea WTF you are talking about.

I scan mirrors but I also focus on the front tires because you can tell what a car is about to do based on the front tires. You see that wheel start to turn and you better be ready to brake or take evasive action.

For the most part, people are fairly courteous to motorcyclists and will make room for you when they see you coming... that is if they notice you at all.

 

[Greenman]

Sorry guys but without proving intent no one is getting charged with anything more than that misdemeanor. It may suck, but that's reality. All the guy has to do is play dumb and claim he didn't see the biker. Gonna be hard to prove otherwise. Perhaps that's something to consider. That and the fact that if someone did decide to do that, charging them with a more serious is hardly going to resurrect you.

Like I said before, you guys are way more trusting than me.

This defense would be based on the common occurrence of people opening their door while driving on the freeway. I think intent would be pretty easy to prove.

Even without the charges, if you did it to me my buddies I ride with would still beat you to death long before the ambulance arrived to pick me up. They'd tell the cops you fell out the car door when you opened it while driving down the freeway.

 

[jdoggg12]

I just open my door.

http://i.imgur.com/5FkYdoJ.png
Internet tough guy

Wow, OK then.

California. Why am I not surprised.

Do tell. What about this topic and CA does "not surprise" you? I'm not the biggest fan of the state, but I'm truly curious how the "ca is a shitty state" overtone of your comment comes into play on this particular issue.

Like I said before, you guys are way more trusting than me.

What does this have to do with anything? The simple act of getting on a motorcycle is dangerous, every rider damn well knows that.



Lane splitting, agreed upon among most of the riders i've talked to provides various benefits:

- keeps the rider alert. Being stuck in traffic is taxing on a rider, both mentally and physically. The slower a rider goes, the more effort is required to keep the bike under control
- puts the primary concern of danger in the rider's hands. When splitting, the rider only needs to worry about what's ahead of them, and they can focus on handling those dangers. The threat of being rear-ended is a HUGE fear to many riders because there's generally no way to react until it's too late
- keeps the tires warmer, which provides varying increases in stopping power, depending on the tire (more performance oriented tires rely on warm tires and perform WORSE than cruising tires if they are allowed to cool. This issue is for splitting over commute-length distances where where a slow steady speed keeps the tires cold vs splitting that involves frequent acceleration and braking, keeping the tires much warmer [though still nowhere near what a 'warm' tire is considered to be on a sports tire])
- the simple act of being allowed to do it elevates the rider's mood, reducing road rage, agitation, and aggressive riding tendencies

Regardless of whether a person agrees with it has no relevance on whether they should open their door on the rider or move to cut them off. Vote on the topic if you feel so strongly about it, but opening your door or swerving into them is tantamount to assault with a deadly weapon. Don't think so? Just picture yourself at full sprint, then someone throwing a door open right in front of you.... guess what, you were only going ~15mph. Doing that to a rider doing 20mph more than you can kill them, even if that means they're only doing 20mph.


EDIT - Now, I realized that since this is the internet, some of those against lane splitting can only think of the idiots doing it at 30mph+ over the traffic they are splitting through. That's dangerous and not much different than a car doing 75 in the middle lane of a 3 lane highway when the other 2 lanes are doing 40 (again, assuming the driver was given this opportunity. Also, as i'm sure some would cry foul "that's an unlikely scenario!!!!!" True, but it's to give metaphorical context and similarities that non riders can understand). I typically do 10-20mph faster than traffic, depending on the situation. 20mph is during brief sprints to get past vehicles as fast as possible, it's not a straight-line, constant-speed differential. The point is to maintain as little time as possible in the same lane as the car when it's doing 30-40mph.

 

[Gillbot]

I would assume he is talking about lane splitting while traffic is stopped.

I still think lane splitting is moronic and dangerous, even if it is legal. Drivers already don't pay attention as it is, there is no need to be closer to them.

I agree with your thoughts, but that's the fundamental problem. We NEED drivers to pay more attention overall. Removing the biker only allows dumbass drivers to escape responsibility and be even dumber.

 

[jlee]

This defense would be based on the common occurrence of people opening their door while driving on the freeway. I think intent would be pretty easy to prove.

Even without the charges, if you did it to me my buddies I ride with would still beat you to death long before the ambulance arrived to pick me up. They'd tell the cops you fell out the car door when you opened it while driving down the freeway.

 

[Greenman]

It's no more stupid than opening a car door to hit a bike.


Honestly, if I was riding with friends, there would be a scuffle. If it was just me, I'd lay there and wait for the ambulance, while deciding how big of a settlement I would ask for. I'm way to old to get up after a serious hit.

Thankfully, most people aren't stupid enough to try something like that. I have had drivers try to block my lane, one ended up with a scrape along the side of his car for being stupid, but the vast majority try to make some extra room for me to pass. I always try to wave a thank you to them, good manners should be recognized and returned.

 

[olds]

It's no more stupid than opening a car door to hit a bike.


Honestly, if I was riding with friends, there would be a scuffle. If it was just me, I'd lay there and wait for the ambulance, while deciding how big of a settlement I would ask for. I'm way to old to get up after a serious hit.

Thankfully, most people aren't stupid enough to try something like that. I have had drivers try to block my lane, one ended up with a scrape along the side of his car for being stupid, but the vast majority try to make some extra room for me to pass. I always try to wave a thank you to them, good manners should be recognized and returned.

If they move for me, I wave thanks.
If they try to box me in, I usually just ignore them and keep riding while they sit in traffic.

Idiot rider

 

[jlee]

It's no more stupid than opening a car door to hit a bike.


Honestly, if I was riding with friends, there would be a scuffle. If it was just me, I'd lay there and wait for the ambulance, while deciding how big of a settlement I would ask for. I'm way to old to get up after a serious hit.

Thankfully, most people aren't stupid enough to try something like that. I have had drivers try to block my lane, one ended up with a scrape along the side of his car for being stupid, but the vast majority try to make some extra room for me to pass. I always try to wave a thank you to them, good manners should be recognized and returned.

Intentionally beating someone to death for opening a door into a motorcycle is no different than opening the door? I agree that hitting a bike with a car door is incredibly dangerous, but your retaliation is just that - retaliation - and is way over the line.

Any bystanders to your plan would quite likely be justified in shooting you. Just FYI.