Land Rover Vs Motorbikes in NYC

[iGas]

Are you for real? So a bunch of angry bikers surrounded your vehicle and attacked you for something you did not start, yet you want to lay down and take it? "Maybe" a punch in the face? How do you know that? Could be a knife or a big beat down or worse (murder/rape). Let me know next time you will just lay down and take it when a group attack you/invade your house.

Read one of my posts above. There were several links/reports that they both called 911 at least 4 times and cops did not show up at least 10 minutes later. Also, the bikers attacked the family in the SUV, that why the driver sped off because of fear for his life and his family well being.

Stop blame the victim (whole family in the SUV). They did not ask for trouble, trouble were pushed upon them.

Edit: Local TV station just said the undercover cop was stripped of his badge and gun until further notice. Not good for him.

One have to, ask why was there so many off duty LEOs in the ride?

 

[Svnla]

More information about the case from CNN = http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/06/us/bikers-attack-video/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Lien was on his way back in his Range Rover from an outing to celebrate his wedding anniversary with his wife and their 2-year-old daughter.

Dozens of bikers swarmed past him on Manhattan's West Side Highway. A cycle quickly slowed down in front of Lien, who bumped its rear tire, slightly injuring rider Christopher Cruz.

Lien pulled to a stop, and angry bikers surrounded his vehicle, hitting it and spiking its tires, police said.

Now if any of you still try to excuse the bikers and blame the victim, I do not know what else to tell you.

 

[Arkaign]

Did Dari email you this and tell you to post it?, your so full of crap your eyes are brown. Yea, sit and wait and hope some thug doesn't shoot you or your wife and kid. By the time the cops got there they could have all been shot dead or beaten to death then got away, most sport bikes are so fast cops don't even bother pursuing them. I'm not happy a guy's paralized but I don't know a single person who would have sat there and waited, when he initially pulled over they immediately started attacking his vehicle, that's why he hauled ass, get it??.

I guess I could have a different view if there was better video.

It's not really debatable that at the beginning of this fiasco that the vast majority of the bikers were just sitting around sort of confused as to what just happened. Watch the first part again.

I've dealt with plenty of douchebags before, they don't scare me one bit. I guess that's just part of being armed all the time here in TX. Sucks that NY is so pussified with gun control that ensures only criminals have guns for the most part.

I maintain that things would have gone infinitely better just waiting for sanity to resume. The instant that moron stopped and got tapped by my vehicle, I'd be on the cell phone, saying I'm calling 911 for an ambulance, etc. Sure they might not listen, but it didn't look like an angry mob at the beginning.

Trying to get away from a mob of angry bikers (most of whom were not a foaming mob of crazies at the beginning of the video even after the initial accident) is basically impossible.

Look, I'm not saying that the bikers who engaged in this BS are innocent by any stretch, they are world class aholes for sure. I'm just saying in the heat of the moment, he panicked and made things a lot worse for himself and his family. He's actually lucky he didn't get himself and his family killed by his choices.

If what you're saying is to be taken literally, that he might end up shot or stabbed, then how does going from having a few pissed off bikers who might have calmed down get fixed by running people over and instantly pissing off ALL of them, and you know it's impossible to get away. Not to mention :

Dealing with a handful of the bikers who might be armed and are being aggressive d-bags

vs.

ALL of the bikers who might be armed and will follow you relentlessly

Which sounds better?

I'm not going to say that it wasn't a shit sandwich all the way around, but I would bet my life that this would have ended much better if he had just stayed put to begin with and dealt with things. I know that's easy for me to say. I keep my doors locked, and the second someone starts trying to break in they have a .45 staring them in the face.

 

[Ichinisan]

OP, I see that you have edited your post. Can you please do it one more time and change "break check" to "brake check?" Thank you!

 

[darkswordsman17]

I guess I could have a different view if there was better video.

It's not really debatable that at the beginning of this fiasco that the vast majority of the bikers were just sitting around sort of confused as to what just happened. Watch the first part again.

I've dealt with plenty of douchebags before, they don't scare me one bit. I guess that's just part of being armed all the time here in TX. Sucks that NY is so pussified with gun control that ensures only criminals have guns for the most part.

I maintain that things would have gone infinitely better just waiting for sanity to resume. The instant that moron stopped and got tapped by my vehicle, I'd be on the cell phone, saying I'm calling 911 for an ambulance, etc. Sure they might not listen, but it didn't look like an angry mob at the beginning.

Trying to get away from a mob of angry bikers (most of whom were not a foaming mob of crazies at the beginning of the video even after the initial accident) is basically impossible.

Look, I'm not saying that the bikers who engaged in this BS are innocent by any stretch, they are world class aholes for sure. I'm just saying in the heat of the moment, he panicked and made things a lot worse for himself and his family. He's actually lucky he didn't get himself and his family killed by his choices.

If what you're saying is to be taken literally, that he might end up shot or stabbed, then how does going from having a few pissed off bikers who might have calmed down get fixed by running people over and instantly pissing off ALL of them, and you know it's impossible to get away. Not to mention :

Dealing with a handful of the bikers who might be armed and are being aggressive d-bags

vs.

ALL of the bikers who might be armed and will follow you relentlessly

Which sounds better?

I'm not going to say that it wasn't a shit sandwich all the way around, but I would bet my life that this would have ended much better if he had just stayed put to begin with and dealt with things. I know that's easy for me to say. I keep my doors locked, and the second someone starts trying to break in they have a .45 staring them in the face.

The problem with your scenario is it is not based in reality. They were already attacking. They slashed his fucking tires and were beating on his vehicle, trying to open the door. They were outnumbered substantially. Calling the cops would not have done jack fucking shit (you realize they did call the cops right? and it did jack fucking shit).

They were basically going to do what they did to him later, but right then and there.

But at least you seem to realize your fucked up viewpoint is distorted thanks to your "I carry and so therefore I'm a tough mother fucker that could handle any situation fine" mentality.

 

[Ichinisan]

What most likely happened what the SUV driver endangered the bikers earlier on. Probably did something really unsafe and arrogant. That's usually why bikers get upset. Car drivers driving stupid or reckless makes the car a weapon.

They wouldn't have slowed him down for no reason at all. Doesn't even look like a break check just that they were all stopping the SUV. You'd be shaken up and upset too if someone had prior endangered your life. People get killed constantly from clueless or reckless car drivers. Of course the riders were bothered by what ever the SUV guy did. If someone had done something that almost killed you or your friends you would too.

They would not have stopped him otherwise. Then he used his SUV as a weapon and assaulted them. Well of course you're going to follow him when he tries to flee the scene. He could have killed someone. Honestly it needs to happen more when people endanger others life on the road. Will be the last time they do it. The SUV driver really got off easy for what he did.

Any type of close call on a motorcycle can mean you almost lost your life. And just a second or foot difference and you could have died. After something like that happens and you were near getting killed from some fool in a car not paying attention or risking your life let me tell you the adrenaline gets going.

An angry mob were attacking the vehicle that his wife and child were in. He had no choice but to drive away.

...and look at the bike that did the brake check: Look what it did just before the brake check. How can the SUV driver possibly focus on anything with bikers all around him pushing him out of his lane?

I can't believe you're sympathizing with the disgusting mob.

 

[TerryMathews]

An angry mob were attacking the vehicle that his wife and child were in. He had no choice but to drive away.

...and look at the bike that did the brake check: Look what it did just before the brake check. How can the SUV driver possibly focus on anything with bikers all around him pushing him out of his lane?

I can't believe you're sympathizing with the disgusting mob.

Some people simply don't believe in self defense.

 

[Ichinisan]

I've read first hand stories of bikers riding alone and having people in cars throw something at them thinking it's funny and some cars forcing them off the road because the biker wasn't going fast enough even being in the slow lane. Stuff like that happens ALL the time. If someone did that to you I bet you'd be upset and shaken up. People in cars think they are bigger so they can do what they want, not realizing what they are really doing is assault with a deadly weapon or attempted murder.

Think of it this way. If those were bicycle riders on a ride and this SUV guy endangered them before and the bicycle riders tried to stop him and then the SUV ran over the bicycle riders and took off, then the bicycle riders followed him you'd be looking at this a whole nother way. Well it's not really much different except that you hate motorcycle riders.

Absolutely not. If a bicyclist or pedestrian mob was being violent toward the driver and his family, he would still be absolutely justified in the action he took.

 

[kreactor]

maybe allred will reveal prior the incident, the loving father bonded with his sons over sessions of gta V, and therefore in his fugue state, confused his ability to drive ingame as a justification to drive with a suspended license.....time for the ttwo shareholders to payup

 

[kreactor]

sure Arkaign and in afghanistan, the rpg staring them in the face's would break the right window

please discuss within the context of new york's gun laws

 

[Arkaign]

The problem with your scenario is it is not based in reality. They were already attacking. They slashed his fucking tires and were beating on his vehicle, trying to open the door. They were outnumbered substantially. Calling the cops would not have done jack fucking shit (you realize they did call the cops right? and it did jack fucking shit).

They were basically going to do what they did to him later, but right then and there.

But at least you seem to realize your fucked up viewpoint is distorted thanks to your "I carry and so therefore I'm a tough mother fucker that could handle any situation fine" mentality.

Could be. It's hard for me to relate to the situation really.

I do know that in the start of the video most of the bikers in view were just sitting there going WTF and sitting there trying to figure it out. I acknowledge that the perspective is terrible though, and it's next to impossible to see what's going on back at the actual scene. If the description is completely accurate that crazy people were an imminent threat to him, well it's hard to say that he had anything BUT bad options from that point.

I do know that it would be nice if the actual attackers could be driven over twice as punishment. I also think group rides should be fully banned, with actual legit punishment for getting caught in a group. Crushed bike, 1 year jail, second offense 25 to life. We're way too light on violent crime as well in this country. First offense should be 10 years mandatory, second offense should be summary execution.

 

[Arkaign]

sure Arkaign and in afghanistan, the rpg staring them in the face's would break the right window

please discuss within the context of new york's gun laws

Thank God I don't live in NY? 🙂 I've visited, what a shithole overall. A shame that so many immigrants see that as their first impression of the US.

 

[Doppel]

Based on what we know, after he first stopped he was attacked, all because somebody had caused him to get in an altercation. There is no reason to think he wouldn't have been beaten that first time he stopped, so since he ended up getting beaten anyway he at least benefitted by run in some people over first.

The paralyzed guy has a criminal history and no license. Fuckig idiot shouldn't have been on the road to begin with. Highly unlikely this guardian angel with zero proven respect for road laws was coming to the defense of anybody. And defense of what, an attack? Exactly. I still wish the SUV had backed up and run more people over.

The great thing is thugs on motorbikes are going to think twice about this kind of thing inthe future, particularly since the law and public sentiment strongly support sportbike bowling when threatened by them.

 

[Sinsear]

One biker shattered the Range Rover’s window, then five or six more dragged the driver out, pummeling his head and body with fists, boots and helmets.
A week after a rampaging motorcycle gang’s stunning caught-on-video attack on an Internet exec and his family, Manhattan prosecutors have released the first blow-by-blow account based on newly-surfaced cell phone camera footage and photos.
As many as six bikers preyed on victim dad Alexian Lien, kicking him in the head even as he tried to crawl to safety, prosecutors said as the first of the accused fist-swingers, Robert Sims, 35, of Brooklyn, was arraigned in Manhattan Criminal Court Saturday night on charges of gang assault and felony assault.
Sims was identified on video and photographs by his distinctive black leather jacket, grey backpack, his helmet, which featured the number, “78,” and his grey and white sneakers — which prosecutors say Sims used to kick the cowering dad’s head and body.
“The defendant is clearly seen stomping on [Lien’s] head,” assistant district attorney Joshua Steinglass told Manhattan Criminal Court Judge Diana Boyar, who set a whopping $100,000 cash bail.
Sims — whose rap sheet includes a 2002 bust for car theft, and gun possession, drug possession and samauri sword possession in 1998, according to sources — has admitted he’s been caught on camera, the prosecutor said.
His lawyer, Luther Williams, insisted his client is innocent and said the bikers only went after Lien to prevent him from leaving the scene after striking one of the other bikers with his Rover.
Sims is also charged with weapons possession. Prosecutors did not name the weapon, but Williams speculated that officials mean his client’s helmet.
“What weapon? Unless they are suggesting the helmets are weapons,” Williams said.
Meanwhile, a source close to the case told The Post that the off-duty NYPD undercover detective who stood by Lien was attacked — and who only came forward Wednesday — is insisting that the violence broke with blinding speed, and that he believed blowing his cover could endanger his own life.
“It all happened so fast,” said the source, who talked directly to the undercover and spoke to The Post on the condition of anonymity. “It wasn’t apparent what was happening till the very end — then it was a feeding frenzy.”
Added Detectives Endowment Association president Michael Palladino, “Leading a double life is not easy for undercovers.”
Palladino pointed to the case of Detective Gescard Isnora, the undercover cop who blew his own cover and fired the first shot in the 50-bullet fusillade that killed Sean Bell outside a Queens strip club in 2006.
“Detective Isnora was on-duty and got fired for stepping out of his undercover role,” Palladino said. “This undercover was off-duty and has every reason to expect the same if something goes wrong.”
The motorcycle-loving undercover — whose work is being described as dangerous and “deep undercover” — had joined last Sunday’s 300-rider rally, and admits watching and doing nothing as Lien was attacked in front of his wife and 2-year-old daughter near 178th Street.
The undercover has had his badge and gun yanked and remains under departmental investigation after only coming forward as a witness on Wednesday night.
A second cop was along for the ride, multiple sources have said, and is also under departmental investigation after coming forward only days after the incident.
Meanwhile, the man allegedly caught on video unleashing the motorcycle rampage — Reginald Chance, 38, of Brooklyn — was also charged with first degree gang assault and assault, along with criminal mischief for allegedly swinging his chrome helmet repeatedly into Lien’s window.
Chance spent Saturday in lineups at the 33rd Precinct in Washington Heights, where the police investigation is based.
Chance has 21 arrests on his rap, sources said — including for drug, weapons and robbery felonies.
The biker who shot the viral video that first captured the motorcyclists’ gang pursuit, Kevin Bresloff, 37, of Bellport, Long Island, also visited the 33rd Precinct Saturday — as a witness, said his lawyer, Andrew Vecere.

Looks like some decent folks just "out for a ride". And I'll reiterate those cops are fucked.

 

[PottedMeat]

Sims — whose rap sheet includes a 2002 bust for car theft, and gun possession, drug possession and samauri sword possession in 1998, according to sources — has admitted he’s been caught on camera, the prosecutor said.

wat?

 

[Svnla]

More videos about the incident = http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2013/10/04/erin-dnt-candiotti-biker-vs-suv.cnn.html

There were at least two bystanders that helped to stop the assault when Lien was on the ground he would be killed. At least someone were not as coward as the undercover cop(s) and the bikers.

Now it is possible that more than one cop at the ride = http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...=maing-grid7|main5|dl19|sec1_lnk3&pLid=387101

Now the lawyer for broken back biker says he was trying to help Lien. Are you serious? First he was trying to help other bikers and now he tried to help Lien? What will be next? He tries to help to cure cancer and AIDS? With his long rap sheets and tender for law breaking for so many years? Stop the press, let give him a Nobel Peace Prize pronto.

 

[CZroe]

I have not read the thread but I did watch the video and I do ride a sport bike.

Let me just say:
The Land Rover driver was entirely justified. The man who got run over is still an unfortunate victim of the bad behavior of those around him, but the man who ran him over was simply protecting his family from an angry mob that had no right to be angry with him and likely would have hurt him and his family. When they caught up to him we saw exactly why. The Land Rover driver is now a victim too.

The victim who was run over probably shouldn't have even stopped. Maybe he didn't know what was going on, but if he deliberately stopped to defend the crazy biker who caused the accident or stopped to box in the Land Rover while the others mobbed it, he shouldn't have.

 

[waggy]

Now it is possible that more than one cop at the ride = http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...=maing-grid7|main5|dl19|sec1_lnk3&pLid=387101

Now the lawyer for broken back biker says he was trying to help Lien. Are you serious? First he was trying to help other bikers and now he tried to help Lien? What will be next? He tries to help to cure cancer and AIDS? With his long rap sheets and tender for law breaking for so many years? Stop the press, let give him a Nobel Peace Prize pronto.

yeah there were 5 cops on the ride. fuck every one should be fired.

 

[Nintendesert]

This is also a good opportunity to reevaluate your vehicle safety settings. People need to check if your vehicle automatically unlocks doors when put into park.

People have a tendency to put their vehicle in park when it stops. You may not, but does your wife? Girlfriend?

Doors should stay locked until you open them.

 

[spidey07]

I have not read the thread but I did watch the video and I do drive a sport bike.

Let me just say:
The Land Rover driver was entirely justified. The man who got run over is still an unfortunate victim of the bad behavior of those around him, but the man who ran him over was simply protecting his family from an angry mob that had no right to be angry with him and likely would have hurt him and his family. When they caught up to him we saw exactly why. The Land Rover driver is now a victim too.

The victim who was run over probably shouldn't have even stopped. Maybe he didn't know what was going on, but if he deliberately stopped to defend the crazy biker who caused the accident or stopped to box in the Land Rover while the others mobbed it, he shouldn't have.

The paralyzed guy wasn't a victim. He was an assailant committing a crime.

 

[BeeBoop]

I have not read the thread but I did watch the video and I do drive a sport bike.

Let me just say:
The Land Rover driver was entirely justified. The man who got run over is still an unfortunate victim of the bad behavior of those around him, but the man who ran him over was simply protecting his family from an angry mob that had no right to be angry with him and likely would have hurt him and his family. When they caught up to him we saw exactly why. The Land Rover driver is now a victim too.

The victim who was run over probably shouldn't have even stopped. Maybe he didn't know what was going on, but if he deliberately stopped to defend the crazy biker who caused the accident or stopped to box in the Land Rover while the others mobbed it, he shouldn't have.

The guy who got ran over shouldn't have parked his bike directly in front of the Range Rover. He either did that to purposely trap him in or he's an idiot but i'm assuming that instructors actually teach something as simple as that when getting your bike license, which the guy who got ran over did not have.

 

[ch33zw1z]

The guy who got ran over shouldn't have parked his bike directly in front of the Range Rover. He either did that to purposely trap him in or he's an idiot but i'm assuming that instructors actually teach something as simple as that when getting your bike license, which the guy who got ran over did not have.

guess he should have went and got his license after all.

 

[kreactor]

if lien had hard brake successfully; reacting to cruz's brake check,
he might ended up with the cluster of bikers on the rear windshield//in the trunk/over the roof and gotten the same chase down for the beatdown

is Onstar available for range rover?

 

[sourn]

The only thing lien did wrong (other then get stuck in traffic), it looks like he had room (from the news video) were he could've cranked it a hard left and slammed it in reverse. Looks like he could've got at least 3 more that way.

 

[Number1]

Man Who Filmed Video of SUV-Biker Brawl Receiving Death Threats: Lawyer

I wonder if the death threats are coming from his fellow bikers for "snitching" on them.

But best of all:

"Lien will not face charges, law enforcement officials said"