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Land of the Free?

R

Reckoner

Lifer
As time goes on, it seems as if more and more of our freedoms in the US are being taken away, or limited, using the war on terror as cause (e.g. Patriot Act). We've had Supreme Court Judges who tell us we don't own our property, and congressmen and women bought off by lobbyists and big business.

We hear Bush go on about terrorists hating us for our freedom. But really, how free are we these days?
 
What are you comparing it to?

The rest of the world? If so, then the answer yes.
Previous generations of the US? If so, the answer is also yes.
 
Freedom was lost in the 1930s when the government told people how to save for their retirement and swelled the federal government.
 
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
What are you comparing it to?

The rest of the world? If so, then the answer yes.
Previous generations of the US? If so, the answer is also yes.
Click to expand...

Both I guess. It just seems that as the years go on, the government gets more and more bloated. I was always under the impression that the purpose of our government was to be as limited as possible while still being able to defend our country in the event of an attack.
 
free compared to some places, I would consider it the definition of free though. Big brother is always around the corner
 
The fear of the Patriot act seems to be overly inflated.

Tha majority of it only deals with surveilence, and most of it only applies to non-US citizens.

I dont really see the govt's ability to wiretap me having anything to do with my freedom. So what, they listen to my calls and read my emails thinking I am involved with terrorism. They would soon find out that I am not and leave me a lone. Who knows, they may have already done so. I really dont care.

Its not like corporations such as banks and credit card companies dont already know more of your personal information than the govt would anyways. At least the govt's aggregation of info is still subject to the checks of the courts. Who stops Mastercard from selling the history of everything you've bought to someone?
 
just remember the guys on the beaches of Normandy, and Okinawa and Midway and everywhere else during that war and realize that freedom is never free.

we are where we are today because of those guys. lets thank them each day. also lets not forget the previous heroes before them

all of them made what America is today possible.

as for being free today, we are the most free country in the world. that says something

sure, we are not perfect, but nobody else is either. yes, 9/11 has taken some of our liberties away and sadly so. but that gives us more reason to hunt down our enemies. one by one

also, im glad New York City is setting up that $230 million security system in its subways. they planned on doing that before the bombings in London

remember, New York City must be protected if we are to win this war on terror. it is America's main city, main attraction. it is also the main target. when the congressmen give equal funding to farms as New York City, it is a shame. the terrorists wont attack the farms, they will attack NYC. so put the money where it belongs

remember, we have to fight for our freedom. freedom has never been free, it has always had a cost
 
Benjamin Franklin:

They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security

=========

"the truth is yes -- you do have these standby provisions, and the plans are here ... whereby you could, in the name of stopping terrorism ... evoke the military and arrest Americans and put them in detention camps."
-- Rep. Henry Gonzalez, D-TX
 
Anyone who thinks this land is 'free' is out of their minds.

Look no further than the giganormus tax code to understand that you certainly are not free.

Text
 
WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness - That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation no such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Click to expand...
We are still free. We have simply forgotten that WE are the government, and not the other way around.
 
Originally posted by: laFiera
Benjamin Franklin:

They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you put up that quote because I couldn't remember it for the life of me. Although I agree that most people will not be affected by laws such as the Patriot Act, I worry more about what future laws may be passed if the war in Iraq goes seriously south or if there are more terrorist attacks within the United States. Believe it or not, there is some truth behind the ideas in Star Wars. Not that I'm comparing Chancellor Palpatine to President Bush, but anytime one single man or entity is given that much power, it is typically not something they will release easily. Although the president does eventually get released after a period of time, the powers allowed through such laws do not empower only the president, but the government as a whole.

Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I just don't believe we should ever, for any reason, give as much power to the government as we have already. Though, honestly, I don't ever remember voting for this. Maybe we do need a pure democracy instead of a republic.

 
Originally posted by: piasabird
Just being free to protest in front of the house of the leader of the free world is a great sign of liberty.
Click to expand...

Do that without a thousand news cameras on you and see how long it takes the SS to wtfpwn your ass 😀

Anyway, while I disagree with the Patriot Act and other chinks in our constitution's armor, and think we're on a downhill slope, it still goes without saying we have more freedoms than most any other nation.
 
There are currently 2,740,000 people in US prisons & jails. No other country in the world can match that number. Land of the Free? Laughable.
 
Originally posted by: tommywishbone
There are currently 2,740,000 people in US prisons & jails. No other country in the world can match that number. Land of the Free? Laughable.
Click to expand...

LOL, what? What does that have to do with anything?
 
I'll confess, I'm confused. The question was: "Land of the Free?"

My response addresses that question. The end. Perhaps you don't like my answer?



 
Originally posted by: tommywishbone
I'll confess, I'm confused. The question was: "Land of the Free?"

My response addresses that question. The end. Perhaps you don't like my answer?
Click to expand...
We can let the criminals out of prison and put them up at your place if you want. Those rapists need someplace to go. It's nice to see you volunteer.

 
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: tommywishbone
I'll confess, I'm confused. The question was: "Land of the Free?"

My response addresses that question. The end. Perhaps you don't like my answer?
Click to expand...
We can let the criminals out of prison and put them up at your place if you want. Those rapists need someplace to go. It's nice to see you volunteer.
Click to expand...

:laugh:
 
Originally posted by: raildogg
as for being free today, we are the most free country in the world. that says something
Click to expand...

Are we?

What, exactly, is "freedom" anyway? Back when I was in elementary school, they taught us that freedom was "the ability to do pretty much what you wanted, so long as you weren't hurting anyone". That sounds pretty noble, but when you have situations like the use of medical marijuana being kept illegal for purely political reasons, or members of government openly advocating a Constitutional amendment to prohibit gay marriage, and any number of laws on the books that attempt to legislate morality, then you really don't have "freedom".
 
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