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Lamborghini Murcielago Vs Toyota Supra

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At the 1200 HP level, that Supra is at the very LEAST using 117 octane race gas. Making 1200hp with only 3L displacement means packing a lot of highly compressed charge air in the cylinders which leads to heat and detonation.

Methanol and nitrous are often used to combat heat and detonation in these cases, more so than contributing power. Many cars use a small 25-50 shot of nitrous that cools the intake allowing for a few more pounds of boost and timing that return more power than the nitrous itself could deliver.

Most Supras that I've seen seem max out around 7-800 RWHP on pump gas and require nitrous or methanol for the evaporative cooling effect alone to support the 30+ psi boost levels required to push over 4 digits. Most cars in that level are also sporting fully rebuilt HKS or Titan 3.4L stroker bottom ends, and stroker motors LOVE boost (maximum effect of boost is apparent when the high density mixture is still pushing hard to BDC through the point when the crank and rod are at 90 degrees)

Example of the effects of air charge temperature under high boost: This Cobra jumped from 800 RWHP to 900 RWHP for a 100 RWHP gain simply spraying the OUTSIDE of the intercooler with a small nitrous mister (ie: no nitrous introduced into the intake or ingested by the engine).

 
Originally posted by: exdeath
At the 1200 HP level, that Supra is at the very LEAST using 117 octane race gas. Making 1200hp with only 3L displacement means packing a lot of highly compressed charge air in the cylinders which leads to heat and detonation.

Methanol and nitrous are often used to combat heat and detonation in these cases, more so than contributing power.

Yep. Though ~800HP is a widely accepted range for a Supra w/93 as a daily driver, with the right build. Only Vettes and Vipers come to mind immediately as semi-affordable cars that can operate in that range reliably with pump gas and no additives. Of course you see a few Mustangs in that range too, mostly the 5.0 guys.
 
Oh yeah the white one someone else linked that disappeared into the night was putting out 1500 HP in that video and is basically a fully modified race car daily driven with stock interior and body, running something like a 100mm turbo at 30 psi with a 300 shot of nitrous.
 
Originally posted by: Truenofan
sorry, but the lambo is probably a better and more reliable daily driver than a highly stressed 3 liter engine on race fuel. I'd like to see a match on a track. the lambo would just pull away until they hit the straights, when the other guy hits the bottle again. handling, mercielago > supra.

I dunno, even a HIGHLY modded Supra is probably more reliable than a Lambo. No contest on handling, of course.
 
Cast iron inline 6, doesn't get any more solid than that.

The Audi 2.7TT in the old S4 was also an iron block but a V6. I know they can handle 25 psi and push some serious hp too.
 
Wel
1) 640HP in the LP640 vs 1200HP in a similar weighted car = no race.

2) Supra's you see commonly, Murc's not so much.
 
That turbo lag is a total embarrassment. That said, it's quick as hell, but you just have to wait until tomorrow for it to spool up.
 
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Supras are quick as hell, but also known as pigs out there. From a dig supra's get spanked a lot.

5s isn't exactly slow, back in 93 no less... That's bone stock. I'd imagine if you add any power at all, there will be an improvement unless you keep the tires spinning up to 60...
 
Originally posted by: mariok2006
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Supras are quick as hell, but also known as pigs out there. From a dig supra's get spanked a lot.

5s isn't exactly slow, back in 93 no less... That's bone stock. I'd imagine if you add any power at all, there will be an improvement unless you keep the tires spinning up to 60...

Stock they are very well rounded and have torque to match the power. Problem lies with the way people add more power; typically with a big single turbo. Small engines + big turbos = dyno queen with no bottom end and not very drivable on anything but a freeway where you can get it in or stay in the power band easily. The more power a Supra has, the more lag you have, the more narrow the power band, and the higher up in the rev range it is.
 
Originally posted by: exdeath
Originally posted by: mariok2006
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Supras are quick as hell, but also known as pigs out there. From a dig supra's get spanked a lot.

5s isn't exactly slow, back in 93 no less... That's bone stock. I'd imagine if you add any power at all, there will be an improvement unless you keep the tires spinning up to 60...

Stock they are very well rounded and have torque to match the power. Problem lies with the way people add more power; typically with a big single turbo. Small engines + big turbos = dyno queen with no bottom end and not very drivable on anything but a freeway where you can get it in or stay in the power band easily. The more power a Supra has, the more lag you have, the more narrow the power band, and the higher up in the rev range it is.

That's spot on. I have a friend with a '95 w/Single huge turbo, and it goes like mad, but it takes a second to spool and go. It's very eerie to ride in from a rolling start, because at first, almost nothing happens, then you hear the whoooooooosh and it just keeps pulling harder and harder and harder until you want to strangle the driver.

Funny video on Youtube, a guy in a modded Cobra is racing a Supra from freeway rolling starts. The Cobra always gets the bite for the first second or two, then the Supra goes berserk and blows by to a massive lead. Rinse, repeat. Shown from inside the Cobra. Both awesome cars.

I haven't driven a huge single turbo Supra, I wonder if you could make up for the turbo lag by downshifting in that situation, or if that would be counterproductive considering the turbo works best when it gets to stay pumped/spooled through a whole gear?
 
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: exdeath
Originally posted by: mariok2006
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Supras are quick as hell, but also known as pigs out there. From a dig supra's get spanked a lot.

5s isn't exactly slow, back in 93 no less... That's bone stock. I'd imagine if you add any power at all, there will be an improvement unless you keep the tires spinning up to 60...

Stock they are very well rounded and have torque to match the power. Problem lies with the way people add more power; typically with a big single turbo. Small engines + big turbos = dyno queen with no bottom end and not very drivable on anything but a freeway where you can get it in or stay in the power band easily. The more power a Supra has, the more lag you have, the more narrow the power band, and the higher up in the rev range it is.

That's spot on. I have a friend with a '95 w/Single huge turbo, and it goes like mad, but it takes a second to spool and go. It's very eerie to ride in from a rolling start, because at first, almost nothing happens, then you hear the whoooooooosh and it just keeps pulling harder and harder and harder until you want to strangle the driver.

Funny video on Youtube, a guy in a modded Cobra is racing a Supra from freeway rolling starts. The Cobra always gets the bite for the first second or two, then the Supra goes berserk and blows by to a massive lead. Rinse, repeat. Shown from inside the Cobra. Both awesome cars.

I haven't driven a huge single turbo Supra, I wonder if you could make up for the turbo lag by downshifting in that situation, or if that would be counterproductive considering the turbo works best when it gets to stay pumped/spooled through a whole gear?

Probably just a pullied or twin screwed blower Cobra at low boost. Not impressive anymore, seems everyone is ditching their blowers for turbos recently 😉. Turbo is just barely starting to become common on street Cobras. Most twin kits are good for 850 RWHP with under 21 psi and 91 octane tunes.

Down shifting isn't going to spool a massive 88mm turbo instantly, you're still going to have lag from the turbine inertia. The only thing that can help spool with a turbo that size is more engine displacement or a big shot of n2o (same thing as added displacement). All the big power Supras you'll see use a Titan or HKS 3.4L stroker for that reason.

From a dig, best bet is an automatic with an appropriate stall converter to launch in boost and stay there. From a roll you can do something called brake boosting.

The other problem is when you finally get to 8,000 RPM and have full spool, and the power comes on so hard that you immediately hit your rev limiter and have to shift, and start the process all over.

Some A/V candy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isl-Ggtgrgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QscSTijCAY
http://videos.streetfire.net/v...-9ae8-980a003c1f4c.htm
http://videos.streetfire.net/v...-b96a-994a00ff9741.htm

Looking for the one where a newly turbo'ed Cobra gets beat by a Supra, gets tuned, then comes back for a rematch and owns the Supra. 😀
 
Originally posted by: Arkaign
That's wicked, right in Gary Javo Viper territory.

Supras are very reliable. There are tons of 800+HP Daily Driver Supras out there. 1200HP is probably a race-only config, however. A 800HP Supra would still eat a Lambo and spit it out though. On a road course, it would take some decent suspension mods and incredible tires for the Supra to keep up however.

Pfff, that's Heffner's Viper. I don't care who drives it... Jason Heffner builds those 1800HP/2200lb-ft beasts.
 
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