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Lakers vs. Sixers, Kobe vs. MJ, Shaq vs. Wilt

Stark

Diamond Member
David Halberstam, a Pulitzer prize-winning author who wrote 'Playing for Keeps: Michael Jordan and the World He Made' was on the Jim Rome radio show today and talked about the Lakers team. For those interested in hearing the interview, check out the Jungle in windows media. The interview is at the 1 hour mark.

For those who like to read, check out Halberstam's column on ESPN.com

Here are some excerpts:

"A number of things, however, were noticeable in that season. Jackson had already improved Shaq's game. He seemed to have a much better sense of the game, and to be playing with far greater discipline, with very little waste, save perhaps his free throws. The spacing of the Lakers on offense was an obvious improvement, and worked to Shaq's advantage. The triangle offense got him the ball where he wanted it, and showed him to advantage as a passer. His assists more than doubled from 114 to 299.

Kobe Bryant looked impressive too. His defense was vastly improved, and that had been a serious question hanging over him. Unlike Michael Jordan, he did not have three years at a place like Chapel Hill to learn to play defense under the best coaches in the country, and it is hard to improve on defense once you're in the NBA and making millions of dollars and appearing on highlight clips every night. But in the 1999-2000 season, at age of 21, Kobe made all-defensive first team; Michael, because the comparisons are inevitable and are helpful in tracking Kobe's surprising maturity as a professional player, made it in his fourth season, at the age of 25."

"The sum of what they are doing is awesome. Portland, with perhaps more genuine talent than Los Angeles, two deep at every position, is disorganized, the roles are never quite certain, and it readily self-destructs. A wonderful Sacramento team, one that is a sheer pleasure to watch, cannot win a game. Then San Antonio disappears in the final two games of a four-game set. All of this leaves the rest of the league wondering: Who can beat the Lakers if they continue to play at this level and no one is injured. They are, after all, very young. Are we talking embryonic dynasty?

Let us, before passing on, look then at the three principals in this.

First Shaq. He is playing at a level that sets him apart from other contemporary players. He made the immensely gifted Tim Duncan look less like one of the more dominating big men in the league than an agile small forward in those four games. He wastes little energy, has a rare combination of awesome muscle and power and yet a surprisingly soft shot. No one has ever been bigger, stronger, and more agile. If his footwork was missing before, or if the offenses he played in did not display it properly, then it is clearly there for all to see now. His moves to the basket are ferocious -- he is so big and so quick that it is almost impossible to stop him. He is, as Doug Collins noted, probably the hardest player to referee in the league, because he is so big and quick-- is he fouling on his moves to the basket or is he being fouled, or is it always a combination of both?

He physically wears down opposing centers. The Lakers, not surprisingly always seem fresher in the fourth quarter than their opponents. The only comparison in terms of a big man dominating the game is with Wilt Chamberlain. But Shaq seems infinitely more comfortable with his size and with playing the role of Goliath than Wilt. Chamberlain's signature shot was essentially a fallaway; Shaq, by contrast, attacks the basket with a certain violence on almost every move.

He tends to get up for big games and for the playoffs; it is possible that he lacks challenges in the regular season and tends to take it somewhat for granted. If that is true, then it is possible that his signature now will be that he plays at a significantly higher level of concentration and effort in the playoffs. If so, heaven help the rest of the NBA.

Kobe. Some seven years ago, relatively early in his championship run, I wrote an article on Michael Jordan for Sports Illustrated, and I talked with Phil Jackson about the progression of players who preceded Michael in playing above the rim. We spoke of their constantly expanding range of abilities -- Elgin Baylor, Connie Hawkins, Julius Erving, and finally Michael. The wonderful thing about all that lineage, Phil said, is that it makes you wonder about who the next in line will be, and what even better moves he will make.

It is quite possible that he is now coaching the next in line of prototypes.
Kobe, it should be noted, is not the next Michael Jordan -- the Michael Jordan commercial phenomenon was something of a fluke. But he may be something just as good, the first Kobe Bryant. There are differences in their games: Michael was simply more muscular and more powerful in his drives to the basket. He punished defenders in the process. If Kobe punishes them it is more likely psychological than physical -- he is slimmer than Michael, and if he lacks the pure force of an attacking Jordan, then there is a degree of flex, and an ability to create angles and lanes on the way to the basket that did not seem to exist before he invented them, lanes and angles even Michael might have lacked.

Kobe also has, I think, a better jump shot this early in his career than Michael had at a comparable moment in his. Keep in mind their actuarial tables: Michael had played one full professional season when he was 22; at the same age Kobe has completed five, and his game has become more complete in each one.

finally, Halberstam concludes,

"As I write, Milwaukee and Philadelphia are struggling for the dubious right to meet Los Angeles in the finals. I realize that the great thing in all sports is that the games actually have to be played, that it doesn't matter who looks overpowering on paper, but this may be the year that proves Yogi Berra wrong -- it may be over before it's over."

In the radio interview, he suggests that Milwaukee and Philly combined couldn't beat the Lakers.

Halberstam is smart. Philly fans aren't. 😛
 


<< Milwaukee and Philly combined couldn't beat the Lakers. >>



you can take that to the bank
 
No where in the article did he say Shaq was better than Wilt. You know why, because he isn't.
Halberstam is smart. Philly fans aren't
As for that statement I speak for myself and all Philly fans. You Laker fans can kiss our #@$#%@#@%%%@%. See you on Wed.
 
🙂

Classy,
the real question is, who's gonna have the bigger riot:
LA when they sweep
or
Philly when they get swept

😉
 
bucks really should thank sixers for saving them from pouding they would have gotten from the reigning champs. if sixers win one game it would be one of the biggest upsets in this season.. the chances of that happening is of course as slim as iverson shooting 60% haha
 
How do you compare Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant?

Do you compare how they played at their respective ages? Kobe Bryant at his 5th season is the same age as MJ during the regular season. How about comparing each 5th season.

Let's compare the numbers (at age 22)

Scoring:
MJ - 28.2 ppg
KB - 28.5 ppg

Shooting Percentage:
MJ - 52%
KB - 46%

Steals/Blocks/Assists:
MJ- 2.39/0.89/5.9
KB- 1.24/0.65/5.0

OK, now the (5th season of each player)

Scoring:
MJ- 32.5 ppg
KB- 28.5 ppg

Shooting Percentage:
MJ-54%
KB-46%

Steals/Blocks/Assists:
MJ- 2.89/0.80/8.0 ppg
KB- 1.24/0.65/5.0 ppg

My conclusions:

-Michael Jordan was better as a rookie than Kobe Bryant in his fifth year.
-Micheal Jordan was better player in his fifth season than Kobe in his fifth season
-Kobe Bryant will never have a jump shot like Michael Jordan because players in the NBA (in general) don't know how to shoot anymore.
-Kobe Bryant's surrounding cast is much better than Michael Jordan ever had.
-As long as Kobe and Shaq are on the same team, there will be no Kobe Bryant Legacy.

Kobe bryant is a very good player but I'd have to say that a retired Michael Jordan at at 38 is still better basketball player.
 
as in my other posts:
Once again another russell and wilt versus shaq thread..First of all...anyone care to mention that Russell was only 6'9 1/2 and 220lbs ? How many 6'9-6'10 power forwards can defend Shaq? I hate it when people crap on shaq by even mentioning Russell. If you take that into consideration, then Magic Johnson would have dominated the game the same as Russell being that he was 6'9 and 215 lbs. Come on people..get with it.. Wilt would be the only person who could even come close to defending Shaq. At least he has the size. Everyone else who thinks Russell could even defend Shaq is smoking crack. Get your facts straight!



 


<< 🙂

Classy,
the real question is, who's gonna have the bigger riot:
LA when they sweep
or
Philly when they get swept

😉
>>



This seems obvious, how can you vote against the city that cheered Michael Irvin's season ending injury and booed Santa Claus?

KingHam
 
Those stats relate for the most part before Kobe Bryant had his injury. Ever since, he has performed 10x better than he did the majority of the season. I think the only real opinion that should be taken here is Phil Jackson's, since he has coached both:




&quot;Kobe's become the floor leader of a basketball team that was kind of looking for that nature of a player, who could not only be a scorer, but also be a playmaker or consistently make big plays at critical times,&quot; Jackson said. &quot;So it was very important for Kobe to step into that role that he was envisioned at. I've always held the bar up very high for Kobe, and he's not only reached that bar, but he's jumping over the top of it right now.


&quot;And I think it's the best that I've ever seen a player of mine play with an overall court game. I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it.&quot;


Jackson was quickly asked for a clarification. That includes Michael Jordan?


&quot;I never asked Michael to be a playmaker,&quot; Jackson said. &quot;That's the greatest player that I've ever had, that I could consider the greatest player in the game, and I never asked him to be a playmaker in those terms. I asked him to be playmaker when he was doubled or tripled. But Kobe has to set up the offense, to advance the ball, to read the defense, to make other players happy, and he's doing a great job of that.&quot;
 
I hate Kobe.

That good for nothing kid holds on to Shaq's shoulders while he mocks the rest of the NBA with his silly smirk. He hasn't done squat, yet. Even Penny looked like the next Michael when he was with Shaq.

However, I'm not stubborn nor am I a fool. I will give Kobe the benefit of the doubt and see what he can do in the finals. But as long as he's with Shaq, he'll never be great, that's for sure. Until he single-handedly carries a team through a season and the playoffs like Allen Iverson, he'll never be comparable to any of the legends. What people don't understand is that without his own team, he'll just be another Scottie Pippen, who spent his best years under the shadow of a bigger star.
 
I love that article.

I cannot wait for the sweep. Living an hour away from Philadelphia so it will be funny to see the reactions of all the fans. In the Milawaukee series they aired a bunch of commericals of interviews of the locals telling the Bucks to stop whinning and crying so it will be interesting to see all the Philly fans start to whine.

Shaq is the best center to ever play the game.
 
That good for nothing kid holds on to Shaq's shoulders while he mocks the rest of the NBA with his silly smirk.


HAHAHAHAH funniest thing Ive read this morning. I can just picture it..HAHahah

Youve made my day
 
Kobe is a good b-ball player and he will be a great on as his career goes on, but that does not stop me from hating ever fiber of his being. He is unapprecitive of his success and is spoiled.


I HATE KOBE!


I think I'm gonna get that printed on a shirt.




BTW: I'm a KINGS fan.
 
If I were coach of the lakers, I'd say that Kobe is doing better than any player I've coached.

I mean, I do have to say that Kobe Bryant is the most dominant guard in the NBA. He will be the most dominant guard until finally a guard who actually knows how to shoot a ball comes to this league.

Michael Jordan with respect to his peers throughout his career was better than any other guard.

Many people say that Allen Iverson is a better player than Kobe.
 
These comparisons with Iverson and Bryant are stupid. Iverson takes the majority of his team's shots and therefore carries the load of his team. But that's cause he doesn't have Shaq, and Mutombo is slow and weak. (He takes an hour to power up in the paint before going up for a shot or dunk) I think if Kobe took as many shots as Iverson, he would be league leader in points and have a much high percentage then Iverson. The only thing Iverson has that Kobe doesn't is probably more foot speed with the ability to utilize screens a lot more efficiently than Kobe can. However, Kobe can post up on the smaller guards in the league and he also has the ability to hang in the air longer than Iverson.

As far as shooting in the NBA. Players understand that they must begin working on a good jumpshot. Take Carter, he doesn't want to be known as someone that only knows how to drive and dunk the ball; that's why he continues to always work on a jumpshot and wants to be a 3-point threat. And around 41% from behind the 3point line, that's a pretty big threat.

 
I can't wait to watch the riots in LA when the Lakers win...should be interesting



<< Shaq is the best center to ever play the game. >>


Ehh, no.

Hakeem is the best. IMO
 
The thing about the lakers that sets them apart is the fact that they have two of the greatest players the game has seen, playing together in their prime. If they can embrace Phil and Tex Winter's team philosophy, they can challenge the great celtic dynasty of the 60's.

Consider:
Wilt played with West and Baylor at the end of their careers.
MJ had Pippen a good but not great player.
Magic played with Kareem at the end of his career.

Shaq and Kobe are both just started playing the best ball of their careers.

If they sweep the playoffs, they will set a historic mark never to be eclipsed, defeating two players considered better than both Shaq and Kobe in the process.

I've had to watch years of Magic comebacks, Club Ced, Rodman, Body Slammin' Nick the quick, Tatoo Del Harris, The Ultimate Loser Mike Dunleavy, and countless sweeps booting the team from the playoffs. Now I'm looking at a dynasty in the making. My days of suffering may be over. 😀
 
quickfingers...in reply to your earlier post about &quot;how can you compare mj to kobe&quot;, the post is you CAN compare there skills at their age level. how? mj was not IN the NBA at 22....kobe is. simple as that. you may say that doesn't mean anything....but how many players can come into a pro league after high school (18yrs old) and get progressively better every year?? can you imagine the pressure on him? everyone thinks..&quot;...little punk thinks he's da sh!t...&quot;

eventhough, he has proven that he can hang. better than mj...not yet, an awesome player...yes, many seasons to go to imporve his game..yes, will he be better than mj or all the other greats of the NBA...no one knows. we will have to wait and see.


all i know is many years down the line when we are all SUPER DUPER PLATINUM MEMBERS, many people will be eating there words...
 
I'm tired of anyone who tries to place an active player into his place in history. Unless he is on the verge of retiring, it's pointless. Players are made by playing, not by writing about them. If Kobe want's to be as good or better than Jordan, then he has the rest of his career to work on that.
 
im so tired of these threads...

NBA sucks. All the players are money grubbing jerks. There are no teams, only 'stars'.

NCAA is the only basketball worth watching. the team is important.
 
johneetrash,

It's an hour in almost exactly. You should be able to scroll ahead.



<< I'm tired of anyone who tries to place an active player into his place in history. Unless he is on the verge of retiring, it's pointless. Players are made by playing, not by writing about them. If Kobe want's to be as good or better than Jordan, then he has the rest of his career to work on that. >>


Ah, the paradox that is sports fan. How would Babe Ruth compare in todays game. How would Joe Montana do before the forward pass. How does Russell compare with Shaq.
Nobody will ever know. Everyone has an opinion. It's annoying and compelling and the same time.
 


<< In the radio interview, he suggests that Milwaukee and Philly combined couldn't beat the Lakers.

Halberstam is smart. Philly fans aren't. 😛
>>



Funny... this year the Bucks beat the Lakers 2-0.
Philly split games with 'em 1-1.
Seeing as though Philly beat the Bucks...

Maybe the Lakers need a team and a half to come out of this series alive :Q !
 
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