Jaskalas
Lifer
- Jun 23, 2004
- 36,300
- 10,605
- 136
Chicken is a vegetable.
. . .
If you look at the water consumption chart:
What can consumers do? – Water Footprint Network
waterfootprint.org
You will see I was wrong to target pork.
Seems Nuts actually are not all that efficient. Although Cattle are still far and away the most inefficient.
Cattle also generate considerable greenhouse gas and water pollution, so I vote we target them first. I like nuts and do not want to see my neighbors take the hit.
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Actually, I think we just turn the beef into a luxury item and call it a day.
going by kilogram of food per liter:
Pork uses 1/3rd the water of beef, looks like chicken is similar.
We can even keep the milk production. Only 1/15 the water use of beef.
Sheep / goat is not efficient, but they still use only 1/2 that of beef. Same with nuts, 1/2 that of beef.
Put a water tax on the beef to help pay for its environmental impact and call it a day.
hal2kilo
Lifer
- Feb 24, 2009
- 26,434
- 12,564
- 136
As usual, whistling past the graveyard is the action plan.Question for those familiar with the regions water supply.
What mitigation plans are in place?
The shocking numbers behind the Lake Mead drought crisis | CNN
The Lake Mead reservoir is poised to become the focal point of one of the country's most significant climate crises: water shortages in the West.www.cnn.com
Fenixgoon
Lifer
- Jun 30, 2003
- 33,556
- 13,234
- 136
Interesting proposition. Higher prices would mean fewer cattle needed, which means less area, and the remaining area could be dedicated to less water intensive agriculture.
But I sure as shit am not a farmer, so I don't know if it's practical to have a dual-purpose farm/ranch from a business perspective
SteveGrabowski
Diamond Member
- Oct 20, 2014
- 9,295
- 7,958
- 136
LOL beef has been a luxury item since 2011 or 2012 when a huge drought killed off a ton of cattle and beef prices have been through the roof ever since.
Depends on the land.
My understanding is a lot of the land in the west requires some sort of grazing animal. It is very dry and arid, and the animal goes from bush to bush. Looking at around 150 acres to keep just 1 cow alive. The animals cover lots of ground to make up the difference.
Much of the dry and arid west is really just limited to things like cattle, goats, or sheep.
In other areas where water is more plentiful, ranchers can start pushing up to 20 cattle per acre. That land could likely easily be converted to dual use, and most likely already is.
Jaskalas
Lifer
- Jun 23, 2004
- 36,300
- 10,605
- 136
As much as I loath it, due to our present circumstances that may be our best option.
And yes, it becoming a luxury item is exactly what I had in mind when I said the words "A future without ". When you can only afford something on a special occasion, or not at all, it's no longer a staple of one's diet, and certainly not a part of every day meals - like it is today. Gone, not literally, but practically speaking.
Ideally our population would have never grown to this point. But that ship has sailed.
My purpose (politically) is to push for sustainability. To stop our population growth from forcing additional sacrifices / irrevocable reductions of quality of life.
Hell, just achieving sustainability from where we are today - will require great sacrifice. But the price will only increase for every million people we must endure.
Zorba
Lifer
- Oct 22, 1999
- 15,613
- 11,256
- 136
Yeah, I want to switch from beef to pork and chicken/turkey. But I hate cooking with ground poultry and pork has more calories than the ground sirloin I normally eat, but I've slowly been switching over. Not perfect, but cows are by far the worst.
Zorba
Lifer
- Oct 22, 1999
- 15,613
- 11,256
- 136
UNCjigga
Lifer
- Dec 12, 2000
- 25,666
- 10,386
- 136
But eliminating subsidies for ranchers and adding a water tax will drive up prices even more, and if you think that’s a good thing, watch how quickly the Amazon rain forest turns into ranch land for multinational food interests.
The lab grown beef is supposed to have the same environmental impact as chicken. But if you eat the wrong beef the peach tree dish will tell the 5g chip from the covid vaccine designed by Bill Gates to buzz you.
GoPackGo
Diamond Member
- Oct 10, 2003
- 6,526
- 605
- 126
Forgot the Gespatcho paying you a visit for eating the wrong beef.
herm0016
Diamond Member
- Feb 26, 2005
- 8,524
- 1,132
- 126
or raise your own food! start learning now.
We run on a well and some incidental water that occurs on our property. I think with our current numbers we can be close to not having to buy hay in the winter if we manage it right. and we flood irrigate from a natural source. there is some evap, but overall its a very efficient way to irrigate. 6 lambs this season. they mow the grass and fertilize too. less ghg emissions than my lawnmower I bet.
I suspect low political power rural folks and independent farmers will get screwed as governments try to consolidate control in cities and within large corps. best thing you can do is learn how to be self sufficient. our water was a deciding factor on this property. 10kw of solar going in this year, and whenever our volt dies it will become battery backup. 10x36 greenhouse for year round food production. eggs, sheep, rabbits and turkeys again next year. we still need to learn how to incubate and hatch our own eggs.
The almond thing is crazy. we just don't buy them anymore, in fact the last few summers we buy very little commercially produced food. Remember, demand creates supply. speak with your dollars.
the front range of CO is massively overpopulated as well.
We run on a well and some incidental water that occurs on our property. I think with our current numbers we can be close to not having to buy hay in the winter if we manage it right. and we flood irrigate from a natural source. there is some evap, but overall its a very efficient way to irrigate. 6 lambs this season. they mow the grass and fertilize too. less ghg emissions than my lawnmower I bet.
I suspect low political power rural folks and independent farmers will get screwed as governments try to consolidate control in cities and within large corps. best thing you can do is learn how to be self sufficient. our water was a deciding factor on this property. 10kw of solar going in this year, and whenever our volt dies it will become battery backup. 10x36 greenhouse for year round food production. eggs, sheep, rabbits and turkeys again next year. we still need to learn how to incubate and hatch our own eggs.
The almond thing is crazy. we just don't buy them anymore, in fact the last few summers we buy very little commercially produced food. Remember, demand creates supply. speak with your dollars.
the front range of CO is massively overpopulated as well.
Between Zebra mussel, Chinese Carp*, and agricultural run off ya all are doing that well enough on your own, eh?
The man made great algae blooms from phosphorous run off, overloading the water with nitrogen to insure the most nasty types of algae dominate, and decreasing levels of dissipated oxygen all point to the fundamental truth:
The Great Lakes NEED California to tap them. It is going to take a Heavy Hitter like California to bully the Midwest into taking care of its greatest resource. Because if you just let things go as they are now, your going to end up like all those counties in Wisconsin where the well water is no longer safe to drink.
You do not want to live with the Golden State, but you can't live with out us. Think of California like that responsible adult, that actually cares about what you drink, or more specifically what California drinks at the end of that rather long straw.
*you already are paying people to murder chinese carp with a per fish bounty. Think about what all that CA money could do!
IronWing
No Lifer
- Jul 20, 2001
- 73,475
- 35,139
- 136
The land in the arid west is much more valuable for hunting and recreation than it is for livestock raising. If not for endless subsidies, the ranching industry in the west would have disappeared decades ago. Commercial grazing on arid lands causes landscape scale degradation to ecosystems while contributing a rounding error to our food supply.
Mr.IncrediblyBored
Lifer
- Jun 18, 2000
- 11,215
- 781
- 126
You Californians are welcome to move to any of the great lake states. It seems a couple of them have some pretty fucked up state governments. Might help turn that around.
herm0016
Diamond Member
- Feb 26, 2005
- 8,524
- 1,132
- 126
sarcasm i hope.
CA is so good at taking care of stuff, they just move the pollution to other states, like electricity generation. maybe they can send some waste to fill in the lakes so the water level remains the same?
FelixDeCat
Lifer
- Aug 4, 2000
- 31,221
- 2,776
- 126
I hate the almond farms. But its not just almonds contributing to the problem of decreased water supplies. Its:
1) Over population. Too many people demanding too much water (and other resources) for which supplies are dwindling at an alarming rate. Prices are inflating for everything because of too much demand and not enough supply of pretty much everything. This is a world wide phenomenon.
2) Both legal and illegal weed grows. Weed demands a shit ton of water to grow. https://mjbizdaily.com/cannabis-requires-more-water-than-commodity-crops-researchers-say/
3) Growing grass on our lawns. Grass farming for both residential and commercial lawns nneds to be restricted to rain water only.
4) Filling swimming pools which are just large evaporation tanks.
Possible solutions to our water crises - short term and long term:
> Maybe taxing the shit out water might help bring about more conservation efforts.
> Make growing pot illegally a 1st degree felony for all the water they use. (Its mostly the fucking cartels and other organized crime groups in the US). All they get are misdemeanor tickets right now.
>Prohibit almond farms during exception droughts.
>Stop subsidizing family growth with tax incentives.
>Stop allowing millions of illegals to freely cross the border.
Fenixgoon
Lifer
- Jun 30, 2003
- 33,556
- 13,234
- 136
people don't use that much water relative to...everything else, basically.
Water Use in California
To understand California’s water, start here. Water use in California varies dramatically between wet and dry years: learn who’s using California’s water, where, and how much.
www.ppic.org
in california, urban water use is 10% of total water consumption. population is up, but urban water usage is down. that means that it's everything else putting pressure on the water supply
oddly, industrial use is left out of this. as i recall, industrial use is something like 30-40% of california water usage. so i'm not sure how this report completely ignores industry - if it were included in "urban" use, the urban value should be much higher.
BoomerD
No Lifer
- Feb 26, 2006
- 66,601
- 15,003
- 146
I posted this a year ago... It still applies. If you live in CA and haven't seen this movie...find it and watch it.
Step one, and it is all fixed. But making ag users actually pay for water is apparently a political non starter.
Seriously, a $5 per 1000 gallons tax on all water used would more than permanently fix the issue in California. About $7/person/month for residential users. And it would provide excess revenue to more than pay for any water projects needed. But it would need to apply to everyone, rather than keeping the majority of ag users exempt from all water charges as done today.
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