Lake Mead

[Zorba]

It. Is. Not. The. People. It. Is. Wasteful. Ag. Use.


View attachment 45902

That is California, I'm sure AZ bad too. But that is still part of the unrestrained growth. We also don't charge enough for water. If farmers were paying a real fee for water they'd learn to use it much more efficiently.

 

[brycejones]

ROFL, mitigation?
Add millions more people to our population. Why... water will just fall from the sky and all will be well.

Yeah, there is no place in America that has more water than the desert. We're totally full. We should have a one child limit and build fucking walls on all borders.

 

[vi edit]

That is California, I'm sure AZ bad too. But that is still part of the unrestrained growth. We also don't charge enough for water. If farmers were paying a real fee for water they'd learn to use it much more efficiently.

Man did I get a shock moving to Portland. I'm used to a $40 a month water bill. Had that in a couple different states, was pretty consistent. In Portland I'm paying just short of $400 every three months. And I'm not watering anything but a couple potted plants and a bit of bamboo in stock tanks. I also am a militant when it comes to kids shower times. But yikes, I was told to be prepared for a high bill. Wasn't expecting that.

 

[K1052]

That is California, I'm sure AZ bad too. But that is still part of the unrestrained growth. We also don't charge enough for water. If farmers were paying a real fee for water they'd learn to use it much more efficiently.

Agricultural cuttoffs have already started hitting in AZ and CA is next. Farmers aren't going to give up anything until their water rights are rendered meaningless by dwindling volume to split amongst the users.

 

[HomerJS]

Yeah. It's nuts.

California almonds suck as much water annually as Los Angeles uses in three years

And other amazing facts from the Golden State's epic nut boom.

www.motherjones.com

Seems moving almond production to the coasts and using purified ocean water is the way to go

 

[brycejones]

That is California, I'm sure AZ bad too. But that is still part of the unrestrained growth. We also don't charge enough for water. If farmers were paying a real fee for water they'd learn to use it much more efficiently.

I'm assuming most of their water is coming from really old water rights and has priority over newer claims like cities. At some point there is going to have to be a reckoning on who "owns" the water in the West. That shit will be messy.

 

[K1052]

I'm assuming most of their water is coming from really old water rights and has priority over newer claims like cities. At some point there is going to have to be a reckoning on who "owns" the water in the West. That shit will be messy.

Water rights in the west are a shit show. Farmers are just going to keep pumping out groundwater until that's gone too and the destroy a bunch of infrastructure in the process.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Seems moving almond production to the coasts and using purified ocean water is the way to go

And they can be pre-salted too.

 

[Wreckem]

Urban development and population growth isn’t the cause of the problems. The problem is wasteful ag use is. Something like 80% of the water is used for ag purposes. Which is why farmers get smacked with restrictions first. There’s probably going to be blood spilt because of people like the Bundys. The reality is farming should massively cut back on their usage and stop growing plants that require a ton of water in an arid almost desert area. Their should be a certain level of restrictions on growing corn, alfalfa, nuts and other water intensive crops in arid areas.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Urban development and population growth isn’t the cause of the problems. The problem is wasteful ag use is. Something like 80% of the water is used for ag purposes. Which is why farmers get smacked with restrictions first. There’s probably going to be blood spilt because of people like the Bundys. The reality is farming should massively cut back on their usage and stop growing plants that require a ton of water in an arid almost desert area. Their should be a certain level of restrictions on growing corn, alfalfa, nuts and other water intensive crops in arid areas.

in california it's especially bad. things like almonds are very water intensive crops. the ground was sinking like 1ft/year because of how much water we're pulling from the ground

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/california-water-sinking-1.5286248

California is literally sinking into the ground

And it's going to cost taxpayers big time.

www.motherjones.com

 

[darkswordsman17]

It's a crying ass shame. Particularly when so many politicians (you can guess which party) only talk about dumbass pie-in-the-sky ideas, like a canal to the Mississippi or desalination plants (which Mexico will surely pay for) but nary a word on conservation or that Communist/hippie concept of sustainability.
"Grow or Die" is their creed; however it most likely will be both for all of us.

Er, I haven't seen Republicans talk about desalination plants (let alone ones in Mexico) or a Mississippi canal? Last I knew, seemed like right wingers were raging about desalinating ocean water as some great evil or how it will forever be fundamentally impossible so we shouldn't even try developing it as its just a waste of money. Also, the oceans won't rise from climate change so there's absolutely nothing to worry about.

Urban development and population growth isn’t the cause of the problems. The problem is wasteful ag use is. Something like 80% of the water is used for ag purposes. Which is why farmers get smacked with restrictions first. There’s probably going to be blood spilt because of people like the Bundys. The reality is farming should massively cut back on their usage and stop growing plants that require a ton of water in an arid almost desert area. Their should be a certain level of restrictions on growing corn, alfalfa, nuts and other water intensive crops in arid areas.

Tool's lead singer got Arizona to pay for him to make a fucking vineyard in the state.

 

[vi edit]

Er, I haven't seen Republicans talk about desalination plants (let alone ones in Mexico) or a Mississippi canal? Last I knew, seemed like right wingers were raging about desalinating ocean water as some great evil or how it will forever be fundamentally impossible so we shouldn't even try developing it as its just a waste of money. Also, the oceans won't rise from climate change so there's absolutely nothing to worry about.



Tool's lead singer got Arizona to pay for him to make a fucking vineyard in the state.

TBF on that, it's in a part of AZ that actually gets rain and snow and grapes are generally on the lower end of water needs for agriculture.

 

[Jaskalas]

Urban development and population growth isn’t the cause of the problems. The problem is wasteful ag use is. Something like 80% of the water is used for ag purposes. Which is why farmers get smacked with restrictions first. There’s probably going to be blood spilt because of people like the Bundys. The reality is farming should massively cut back on their usage and stop growing plants that require a ton of water in an arid almost desert area. Their should be a certain level of restrictions on growing corn, alfalfa, nuts and other water intensive crops in arid areas.

That's an interesting issue, and doesn't target meat production. So pushing a shift there may actually be feasible.

 

[BoomerD]

Man did I get a shock moving to Portland. I'm used to a $40 a month water bill. Had that in a couple different states, was pretty consistent. In Portland I'm paying just short of $400 every three months. And I'm not watering anything but a couple potted plants and a bit of bamboo in stock tanks. I also am a militant when it comes to kids shower times. But yikes, I was told to be prepared for a high bill. Wasn't expecting that.

Yep. We're in one of the wettest parts of Washington...our water bill is 3x what we paid living in Modesto, CA...AFTER the state forced water meters and metered billing on us. Before that, we paid a flat $30/month for unlimited water. The state wanted the folks in the north state to conserve so they could send more water to SoCal...and the Resnicks.

Even though I worked for one of the local irrigation and power districts for several years, this movie opened my eyes about the water grab going on in CA.

Water & Power: A California Heist (2017) ⭐ 7.3 | Documentary

1h 27m | PG

www.imdb.com

 

[Jaskalas]

I do believe clean water availability will remain a large issue throughout the country. Even if CA's zero day crisis may in fact be postponed through reigning in absurd agriculture abuse. It's a good first step in solving their water issue, but what are the chances of CA actually fixing almond waste? Will the citizens have to suffer first before they force the legislature /gov to act with force?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Er, I haven't seen Republicans talk about desalination plants (let alone ones in Mexico) or a Mississippi canal? Last I knew, seemed like right wingers were raging about desalinating ocean water as some great evil or how it will forever be fundamentally impossible so we shouldn't even try developing it as its just a waste of money. Also, the oceans won't rise from climate change so there's absolutely nothing to worry about.



Tool's lead singer got Arizona to pay for him to make a fucking vineyard in the state.

Pretty sure it's still cheaper to ship snow from canada by train than it is to desalinate ocean water to the levels it'd require for our southwest needs.

Really this whole thing is like watching someone play a civ game that's terrible at it. Like missing all the terrain bonuses, ignoring logical places for cities, industry, etc. Put people where there's no food or water? Sure! Put crops where there's no water? Sure! Solar panels in the desert? WHOA NOW, NO CRAZY TALK ROUND HERE.

 

[brycejones]

Pretty sure it's still cheaper to ship snow from canada by train than it is to desalinate ocean water to the levels it'd require for our southwest needs.

Really this whole thing is like watching someone play a civ game that's terrible at it. Like missing all the terrain bonuses, ignoring logical places for cities, industry, etc. Put people where there's no food or water? Sure! Put crops where there's no water? Sure! Solar panels in the desert? WHOA NOW, NO CRAZY TALK ROUND HERE.

Brawndo has what plants crave.

 

[hal2kilo]

Water rights in the west are a shit show. Farmers are just going to keep pumping out groundwater until that's gone too and the destroy a bunch of infrastructure in the process.

Seem they are just as smart as fisherman.

 

[MtnMan]

I pay $4.20 per CCF (hundred cubic feet = 748 gallons). Residential rates are the highest, big users get discounts.

Of course there are 'other' charges and fees on the combines services bill, including sewage (based on water consumption), garbage, and even the "rain tax" (stormwater runoff fee based on amount of impermeable surface)

 

[BoomerD]

NorCal is just as fucked as SoCal...

A California reservoir is expected to fall so low that a hydro-power plant will shut down for first time | CNN

Water in a key California reservoir is expected to fall so low this summer that its hydroelectric power plant will be forced to shut down for the first time, officials said Thursday, straining the state's already-taxed electric grid.

www.cnn.com

This is the reservoir that, just a couple of years ago, had so much water after some stormy weather, it overtopped the dam and washed out the emergency spillway.

3 years later: A look back at the Oroville Dam spillway crisis

What started as a small hole on the Oroville Dam main spillway led to massive erosion and a potentially catastrophic event as more than 180,000 people were evacuated near Lake Oroville and downstream along the Feather River in February 2017. It's been three years since that hole was first...

www.kcra.com

 

[Zorba]

NorCal is just as fucked as SoCal...

A California reservoir is expected to fall so low that a hydro-power plant will shut down for first time | CNN

Water in a key California reservoir is expected to fall so low this summer that its hydroelectric power plant will be forced to shut down for the first time, officials said Thursday, straining the state's already-taxed electric grid.

www.cnn.com

This is the reservoir that, just a couple of years ago, had so much water after some stormy weather, it overtopped the dam and washed out the emergency spillway.

3 years later: A look back at the Oroville Dam spillway crisis

What started as a small hole on the Oroville Dam main spillway led to massive erosion and a potentially catastrophic event as more than 180,000 people were evacuated near Lake Oroville and downstream along the Feather River in February 2017. It's been three years since that hole was first...

www.kcra.com

I can't believe that Cali will run turbines down to the dead pool. Around here they maintain the conservation pool year round, if the conservation pool isn't full water the turbines don't run. The exception is if they have to flow water for downstream commitments.

 

[quikah]

That almond stat is misleading. On a nutrient basis, how much are you getting for that water? How much money is generated by that water use? Livestock and the supporting feed growth (alfalfa uses ridiculous amounts of water) use more water than almonds.
CA-Ag-Water-Use.pdf (pacinst.org)

 

[obidamnkenobi]

It. Is. Not. The. People. It. Is. Wasteful. Ag. Use.


View attachment 45902

Man! Those greedy wild & scenic rivers! Taking a third of the water! Time to stop those bastards!

I say we "voluntarily" relocate people from some of the absolutely idiotic desert states. They are not meant for human habitation! No water, 100+ degree heat, no shade, no plant life. Why would anyone live there?? Totally pointless
Make the people move to somewhere actually livable and sustainable, there are plenty of other places.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Since we've morphed beyond Mead, if CA is having so many ppower and water problems, why are they closing 4 dams?

Plan to raze 4 dams on California-Oregon line clears hurdle

A proposal to bring down four hydroelectric dams near the California-Oregon border has cleared a major regulatory hurdle

abcnews.go.com

 

[Matt390]

Pretty sure it's still cheaper to ship snow from canada by train than it is to desalinate ocean water to the levels it'd require for our southwest needs.

Really this whole thing is like watching someone play a civ game that's terrible at it. Like missing all the terrain bonuses, ignoring logical places for cities, industry, etc. Put people where there's no food or water? Sure! Put crops where there's no water? Sure! Solar panels in the desert? WHOA NOW, NO CRAZY TALK ROUND HERE.

Why dont we just build a pipeline from the great lakes to cali?